Recoton RCA Cable Review (Ultra Cheap Cable)

[Milesian]

The problem is with demonstrably false claims of superior performance with increased prices. Most consumers, even those who are well-off, don’t have the equipment to test such claims; that’s what ASR does.

What problem? The whole world of marketing is rife with dubious claims of superiority of one brand over another. Why is it a problem? Who is losing sleep over it? Certainly not me.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

Do these Supra, quite expensive interconnects look ok?

They look exactly like the RCA ends of the custom TS-to-RCA cable (for my Behringer UMC202HD) I ordered from an eBay seller in China. IIRC it cost me about $12 with free shipping.

 

[Milesian]

Of course, someone can do with their money as they please. But few people will want to spend unjustifiable sums of money seeking either an improvement in sound quality [which they won't get] or an increase in status that exists only in their imagination.

This isn't "The Absolute Sound", think of it more as "Consumer's Reports". Cost and utility are factors. If someone wants to blow $20,000 on some 1 meter, RCA terminated pair of interconnects, that's their problem. If someone wants better sound and a lower noise floor, cheap balanced would be better anyway.

If someone spends $20K on interconnects it is not ‘their’ problem and certainly not a problem with me. Your choice of words indicates it’s your problem and something you have to deal with.

 

[Robin L]

If someone spends $20K on interconnects it is not ‘their’ problem and certainly not a problem with me. Your choice of words indicates it’s your problem and something you have to deal with.

Again, ASR is about performance. And $20,000 cables do not perform better than freebies. As for the rest, ostentatious displays of wealth suck, particularly right now

 

[sam_adams]

I hate buying stuff from random sites on the internet.

Markertek normally carries different colored cables with wire from well known manufacturers of quality cabling. Markertek would not be considered a random internet site. However. Supplies are constrained. Prices are up. Some items may be unavailable or have long lead times. Redco—another non-random company—makes custom cables and their lead times are currently five weeks plus.

 

[Angsty]

What problem? The whole world of marketing is rife with dubious claims of superiority of one brand over another. Why is it a problem? Who is losing sleep over it? Certainly not me.

Okay - then help me understand; why are you on ASR?

Many of us here seem to be very interested in how audio gear measures versus how it is publicized.

 

[Overseas]

They look exactly like the RCA ends of the custom TS-to-RCA cable (for my Behringer UMC202HD) I ordered from an eBay seller in China. IIRC it cost me about $12 with free shipping.

My photo is a Supra cable costibg 40 euro, quite thick otherwise, claim is made in Sweden.

 

[KSTR]

Maybe someone can explain to me how this statement makes sense at all.
Results of the testing may arrive at the correct conclusion but does so using a wrong set of premises.
EMI is low frequency? RFI is high frequency?
Using a "space-heater" of high current draw?
Jury-rigged test is attempting to induce space-heater CURRENT (S+N?) onto audio cables via close proximity?

Last I checked, unless the shielding material is made of a ferrous material (excluding paramagnetic tin (Sn)), these copper/aluminium "shields" may be good conductors and high frequencies shields (e-field/capacitive); yet, they do jack for current coupling (h-field/inductive) in free air.
What am I missing, where am I going wrong?

You don't need magnetic materials to reduce/eliminate AC magnetic field coupling.

The main effect, and notably for low (like mains) frequencies, is based on cancelling just in the way a good twisted-pair does the trick. A coax with tightly defined geometry and a gapless well conducting shield within all directions on the shield surface is the best possible field-cancelling geometry. This is true for homogenuous fields penetrating the cable, from any direction. When located ultra close (< a few cm) to strong emitters the field gets so curved and shaded that the cancelling stops being perfect, though -- but still way better than any other cable constructions as a lot of partial cancelling is still at work.

A second effect is eddy currents forming in the shield which counteract the incident field. This scales with shield conductivity, thickness and frequency. At low audio frequencies you need a very thick copper/aluminum sleeve to be any effective and therefore this effect can only be exploited from higher audio frequencies but then extends up into the GHz ranges -- works best with a premium shield construction, again (and, not to forget, 360°-bonded shield-to-chassis mating connections).

At high RF frequencies, a coaxial cable turns into a triax: the inside of the shield carries the actual signal return current where the outer surface only conducts noise RF. The isolation is created by the skin effect. The more a shield approaches to be like one single homogenouos piece of copper tube the better this can work.

The meaning of EMI has no frequency restrictions whereas RFI does.

 

[Angsty]

A quick overview of cable shielding from New England Wire.

Cable Shielding: When? Why? | New England Wire Technologies

In addition to the benefit of protection against damage to cable components from cable motion and use, proper shielding is essential to many applications as it can keep out unwanted external interference.

www.newenglandwire.com

 

[Fleuch]

Because they figured out they can confuse the typical, non-technical audiophile thinking it matters, and sell them more gear. Do you care if you get to your work place 1 second later or earlier? You don't, right? Yet someone thinking timing is like a watch keeping accurate time, that such a thing matters.

What matters in audio is timing consistency, not accuracy. Lack of consistency causes jitter which I measure in every review. If your music track finishes in 3.52 seconds or 3.5200001 is of absolutely no consequence audibly. Indeed in any video you watch, audio's time is slaved to video. You don't see people going on riots to that. AES specifically actually allows up to 5% clock accuracy error for digital audio interface.

Living up to your title of Chief Fun Officer?

Seriously though, the bottom line is the need to maintain pulse shape, particulaly when working with narrow pulse widths at high bit rates. Might not have an impact on a digital audio interface, but spending a little more on a digital cable, in contrast to analogue interconnects, may be a wise precaution.

Apologies for being 100nS late for work !

 

[pseudoid]

You don't need magnetic materials to reduce/eliminate AC magnetic field coupling.

The testing/results referenced is NOT trying to 'reduce/eliminate'... I think, the intent is just the opposite... what does laying the heater's 20ft AC cable along the cable-under-test exactly prove (no matter how close or distant it is from that cable)? If the desire is to achieve lo-f coupling; then wrapping the heater's MAINs cable around cable-under-test (or using a current probe?) but to what placebo effect; that will sway his conclusions about shielding effectiveness, or 'insertion loss', or attenuation to unwanted lo-f energy?????

 

[amirm]

The testing/results referenced is NOT trying to 'reduce/eliminate'... I think, the intent is just the opposite... what does laying the heater's 20ft AC cable along the cable-under-test exactly prove (no matter how close or distant it is from that cable)? If the desire is to achieve lo-f coupling; then wrapping the heater's MAINs cable around cable-under-test (or using a current probe?) but to what placebo effect; that will sway his conclusions about shielding effectiveness, or 'insertion loss', or attenuation to unwanted lo-f energy?????

Indeed. For my cable testing of magnetic induction, I not only have to touch the cable with an AC transformer, but have to orient it the right way to induce such effect: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-of-rca-cables-mogami-amazon-monoprice.27871/

As you see, even in this severe case, worst case spikes are below -115 dB which is threshold of hearing at mid-frequencies. In low frequencies, that threshold rises to some 50 dB so we have 70 dB of headroom!

It is just a non-issue and even if it is, just move the cable a bit.

The reason hum and buzz is experienced is due to faulty design of unbalanced, earth referenced connection scheme. The solution to that is to use balanced I/O, not to screw around with RCA cables.

 

[amirm]

You don't need magnetic materials to reduce/eliminate AC magnetic field coupling.

The main effect, and notably for low (like mains) frequencies, is based on cancelling just in the way a good twisted-pair does the trick. A coax with tightly defined geometry and a gapless well conducting shield within all directions on the shield surface is the best possible field-cancelling geometry. This is true for homogenuous fields penetrating the cable, from any direction. When located ultra close (< a few cm) to strong emitters the field gets so curved and shaded that the cancelling stops being perfect, though -- but still way better than any other cable constructions as a lot of partial cancelling is still at work.

A second effect is eddy currents forming in the shield which counteract the incident field. This scales with shield conductivity, thickness and frequency. At low audio frequencies you need a very thick copper/aluminum sleeve to be any effective and therefore this effect can only be exploited from higher audio frequencies but then extends up into the GHz ranges -- works best with a premium shield construction, again (and, not to forget, 360°-bonded shield-to-chassis mating connections).

At high RF frequencies, a coaxial cable turns into a triax: the inside of the shield carries the actual signal return current where the outer surface only conducts noise RF. The isolation is created by the skin effect. The more a shield approaches to be like one single homogenouos piece of copper tube the better this can work.

The meaning of EMI has no frequency restrictions whereas RFI does.

You seem to be short of any measurements of claims you are making in audio band. I on the other hand, have measured them per above.

I have tested hundreds of audio devices now with my dirt cheap Amazon Basics RCA cable. In a number of occasions I have swapped it for another cable when chasing mains leakage and in no case has it made a difference. The review of that cable is in the above link where I objectively show that these effects you talk about are simply non-issues.

You are completely confusing what happens when cables become very long and/or when the application is much higher bandwidth than audio. This is what leads to all kinds of false marketing of expensive cables to audiophiles. They create a fear and then without measurements of the solution, claim improvements -- precisely what you are advocating.

 

[pseudoid]

I have tested hundreds of audio devices now with my dirt cheap Amazon Basics RCA cable.

I think you and I played this game of "I'll show you mine, if you show me yours!" with our abundant supply of wall-warts.
I'll go first again, with my collection of audio cables:

Would you like me to ship you some of the unbranded ones (Red circled) that I have no idea why I even bother to keep around?
(All my other costlier RCA cables are already spoken for and/or in use... please don't shame me!)

 

[Robin L]

I think you and I played this game of "I'll show you mine, if you show me yours!" with our abundant supply of wall-warts.
I'll go first again, with my collection of audio cables:
View attachment 203868
Would you like me to ship you some of the unbranded ones (Red circled) that I have no idea why I even bother to keep around?

See post #12, Item #1:

Message to golden-eared audiophiles posting at ASR for the first time...

Hello friend. Hey, listen...we know how it is. Believe me, most of us have been there too. You've spent years toiling in the muck of audiophilia. You read ALL the reviews. You watched ALL the youtube videos. You visited ALL the other forums where everything always makes a difference. You...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

Some do; the challenge is finding them on Amazon. I hate buying stuff from random sites on the internet.

Shopping at Amazon does have its perks. Like if you save up enough Bezos Bucks you win a free ride on the Penisrocket.

 

[pseudoid]

See post #12, Item #1:

Now that's a whammy to the world of premium cables ... the classic rca cable that you found in your father's electronics drawer is indistinguishable from a recable

[ https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...e-review-ultra-cheap-cable.33473/post-1168961 ]
I did: Now what?

 

[Robin L]

[ https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...e-review-ultra-cheap-cable.33473/post-1168961 ]
I did: Now what?

When I moved from Fresno to Lacey, Wa, I gave away boxes and boxes of throwaway cables, and more than a few not so throwaway bits of wire. So, #1 on my list of top ten signs that one might be suffering from audiophilius nervosa is boxes full of interconnects, when all you really need is four, five tops, and they shouldn't be clogging a garage or a box stuffed into one's closet.

 

[amirm]

Would you like me to ship you some of the unbranded ones (Red circled) that I have no idea why I even bother to keep around?

Wow, that is amazing organization! Mine are in countless plastic containers! As for testing, I appreciate the offer but let me tend to other category of devices for a while and then we can circle back to more cheap cable testing.

 

[AudioSceptic]

That's been my solution but the darn tape comes off after a few months. Ideal solution is heatshrink tubing but getting one large enough to clear the head of the XLR but then tighten on the cable is hard.

Yes, XLRs are huge, aren't they? I'm surprised that a mini version hasn't taken over.