PS Audio PowerPlant 12 Review (AC Regenerator)

[amirm]

@Amir I think that anyone can see that the audible claims in PS Audio are just BS selling hype...note

Not their customers. Their statements create strong expectation bias. Also note how Paul says to "listen. " so I did....

 

[LEFASR160]

Not their customers. Their statements create strong expectation bias. Also note how Paul says to "listen. " so I did....

@amirm : I'm not an engineer but I know better than to believe the advertisement's listening BS; I learned from you on this site how cleaner AC doesn't make a difference in the DC side of the gear or in the audio spectrum (or at least that's what I think you're demonstrating)....that was enlightening !!!! As you said in your video, one might intuitively think that cleaner AC is better, but it turns out that it is not a consideration with audio gear. I wonder though if it is true for all electronic equipment ? Based on everything you said and showed I made the decision not to use one of these things on audio source gear which is what I originally thought I might use it for. And I thank you for that !!!!

 

[Doodski]

As you said in your video, one might intuitively think that cleaner AC is better, but it turns out that it is not a consideration with audio gear. I wonder though if it is true for all electronic equipment ?

Regen units are sometimes used in metrology labs where a constant voltage source is required to get down to parts per million measurement accuracy.

 

[LEFASR160]

Regen units are sometimes used in metrology labs where a constant voltage source is required to get down to parts per million measurement accuracy.

@Doodski @amirm That's interesting !!!

 

[Larry B. Larabee]

He has all the motive to not have this thing sound any different

This may be so, my point is that no matter the result it isn't likely anyone could say the opinion would be limited by the source components used and that being an argument for the PS12 not captivating the listener based on the lack of resolution of the associated equipment.

'Nothing got confirmed. One man had an opinion.'

I can't argue with that. It does severely limit the usefulness of any opinion about anything, though. Is that what you're advocating, wholesale, or just in Amir's case?

 

[voodooless]

I can't argue with that. It does severely limit the usefulness of any opinion about anything, though. Is that what you're advocating, wholesale, or just in Amir's case?

Amir is not special in this regard. For his biased opinion there are plenty of other biased opinions swinging the other way.

 

[CinDyment]

It is relevant due to the regenerator claiming to keep the output voltage at the AC mains voltage. In practice the regen will not be capable of outputting the same as the AC mains voltage due to losses and voltage drops across semiconductors. If the regen had a higher than the AC mains voltage that would require a step-up transformer. Hence some sort of transformer comment was made. Maybe the regen does step up the voltage slightly... One must wonder.

No, you just need a bridged output.

 

[CinDyment]

Typically these things have uncontrolled rectification onto a DC link and then an inverter to convert the DC Back to AC. This architcture can only output slightly less AC volts than the input.

In order to do step up, they have to have an inverter input stage also. This is much more complex and will double to triple the cost. It is also un-necessary.

Can't they set the inverter to whatever voltage they what? Most UPS units operate from 12 V to 48 V batteries and convert that to (regulated) 120 V AC. I do not understand why an AC input -> DC -> invert to AC output has to be limited to less than the AC input voltage. They should be decoupled by design... I sort of figured these audiophile versions took advantage of the inverter technology already available for UPS use, or do these "regenerators" create a HV DC rail that is converted to AC by e.g. a PCM or similar circuit so the HV rail limits the output voltage?

Confused - Don

The transformer could be outputting 180V (or more) at 120V input, it could be a bridge output hence only needing half the peak voltage, etc. etc. I don't know what people are going on about w.r.t. not being able to supply the voltage. There is a transformer. It can output whatever voltage that you want.

I would be more worried its a linear transformer, not a PFC, so it just make the current distortion on the AC line (and hence voltage) even worse for everything not plugged into this.

 

[tomchr]

Without any kind of blind testing I thought that was exactly how bias worked, at least for those of us not immune to it. With significant being a 10 and zero, 0 where's all the 3s and 4s?

No human is immune to bias.

Tom

 

[markk02474]

Very incomplete review. What are the measured output impedances of your lab supply, the PS Audio device, and your wall vs. load?

Your test data looks to be under ZERO load. Using an Agilent or other electronic AC load, what is the performance as load increases statically, and with dynamic load variation (sort of like music)?

I'd also love to see more wide band measurements of supplied power bricks, again under varying loads using a DC electronic load. Is switching noise from the convertion or bridge rectifiers detectable (beyond 120 Hz)? What happens in linear supplies using soft recovery fast rectifiers or SiC (ultra fast switching) rectifiers? How do they behave under real-world load conditions?

*note, loads themselves can feedback noise, unless something useless like resistors which in no way resemble real-world loads.

 

[RichB]

Amir is not special in this regard. For his biased opinion there are plenty of other biased opinions swinging the other way.

Excellent, how many PS12's can I put you down for?

Here is the complete short PS Audit PS12 pitch.

The DirectStream Power Plant 12 takes your incoming AC power and regenerate new sine-wave-perfect, regulated high current AC power. In the process of regeneration any problems on your power line such as low voltage, distorted waveforms, sagging power and noise are eliminated. The results are both audibly and visually stunning when powering either audio or video products. Further, the level of protection afforded connected equipment is extraordinary. Feel 100% confident that a P12 will provide pure and safe power under any condition. Don’t starve your music or risk damaging your equipment. A P12 gives you greatly improved performance and safety from just plugging into the wall socket and far better dynamics, bass and a much bigger, open soundstage than any passive power conditioner on the market.

Actually, this text is carefully worded bulleted out here is what is claimed.

- low voltage and sagging power eliminated
- extraordinary protection
- 100% confidence for pure safe power
- no more starved music
- no more risk of damaging your equipment
- better dynamics and bass
- much bigger, open soundstage

But wait, here is the kicker "than any passive power conditioner on the market."
Really, is the PS12 a better surge protector than, say a SurgeX? I doubt it.

No a single claim here withstands scrutiny without some limit or disclaimer like:
** Real-word performance many differ, consult the specifications for applicable limitations

I think this type of product has some value, though a UPS is a better choice (IMO) as it protects from rapid power outages that have taken a TiVo at my house.

IMO, if sags are a concern, then it is more cost effective to buy an amplifier that handles voltage sags without significant performance impact.

- Rich

 

[voodooless]

Excellent, how many PS12's can I put you down for?

One less than normal

Your Rich.. not me

 

[CinDyment]

Very incomplete review. What are the measured output impedances of your lab supply, the PS Audio device, and your wall vs. load?

There are pages discussing the measured 3 ohm output impedance of the PS unit, and there is a measurement of the BK lab unit (which is much better). Are you sure you read the review or just the triggered comments on the PS site, where Paul just assumes his customers are idiots, most of whom prove him right by not calling out the spec discrepancy. Trust the front panel meters is not an answer.

 

[Geert]

Your test data looks to be under ZERO load

PS Audio P12 Review Part 2: Power Testing

I recently reviewed the PS Audio PowerPlant P12 AC power regenerator. There, I measured its performance with either no load or typical source device. Questions were raised as to its performance with higher power loads. Here is that test. So I unpacked and lugged the 50 pound P12 back to my...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Astrozombie]

I've always wondered if a signal gets degraded by just using an outlet strip, but i sure as heck wouldn't bother spending too much money .

 

[Spkrdctr]

I think I tested one product that was good. I think it was a class D amp.

Yes, it was the Stellar 700 amp class D.

 

[Spkrdctr]

Very incomplete review. What are the measured output impedances of your lab supply, the PS Audio device, and your wall vs. load?

Your test data looks to be under ZERO load. Using an Agilent or other electronic AC load, what is the performance as load increases statically, and with dynamic load variation (sort of like music)?

I'd also love to see more wide band measurements of supplied power bricks, again under varying loads using a DC electronic load. Is switching noise from the convertion or bridge rectifiers detectable (beyond 120 Hz)? What happens in linear supplies using soft recovery fast rectifiers or SiC (ultra fast switching) rectifiers? How do they behave under real-world load conditions?

*note, loads themselves can feedback noise, unless something useless like resistors which in no way resemble real-world loads.

Can you please do the testing required to make the review complete? I think everyone here would be very appreciative. Thanks for the upcoming info!

 

[Spkrdctr]

I've always wondered if a signal gets degraded by just using an outlet strip, but i sure as heck wouldn't bother spending too much money .

In practicality no. On an AP555 probably, but that is like looking at a cheeseburger molecule by molecule. Interesting but has nothing to do with eating the burger! A power strip just needs to pass the input voltage and the current to which the strip is designed for. Easy peasy. No real money needed.

 

[solderdude]

Really, is the PS12 a better surge protector than, say a SurgeX? I doubt it.

Might be because the incoming AC is going through surge protectors and then through a transformer (galavanic separation), filtered by smoothing caps and then generated (phase locked to the incoming mains)

 

[CinDyment]

Might be because the incoming AC is going through surge protectors and then through a transformer (galavanic separation), filtered by smoothing caps and then generated (phase locked to the incoming mains)

So you lose your $5000 PS boat anchor instead.