PS Audio FR30 speakers

[CtheArgie]

In my last position with a startup, we argued our simulation service and SW (which assured the connectivity on super complex pcb’s was correct first time) allowed all three, by dramatically reducing the probability of a PCB artwork spin.

So I think you can do all three.

Not in pharma. Trust me. Maybe extraordinarily rarely. But you never know what would happen down the line.

 

[Plcamp]

Not in pharma.

I understand, my father in law was a research scientist with various pharma companies in Mtl, NJ and Minneapolis…I have heard stories.

 

[dtaylo1066]

Drugs deal with people's safety and lives. There is no substitue for solid R&D, including in audio, but one will not die if one buys a poorly measured speaker.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Drugs deal with people's safety and lives. There is no substitue for solid R&D, including in audio, but one will not die if one buys a poorly measured speaker.

Some ASR members would disagree

 

[CtheArgie]

Drugs deal with people's safety and lives. There is no substitue for solid R&D, including in audio, but one will not die if one buys a poorly measured speaker.

I think differently. It’s not that a person would die, not at all, but I prefer people who test thoroughly and honestly.

 

[Cars-N-Cans]

Best post of this thread! People trashing Paul, Chris and almost Chris's mother (slight exaggeration) and then state "Well, I don't want to be divisive and I hope it ends up well". Geez, pages of people trashing Chris, calling all of his design decisions basically wrong. With all of what he was tasked to do with the equipment on hand, we should be patting him on the back. He explains "why" something was done and everyone with no skin in the game and basically keyboard commandos, jump all over everything he says. Why on earth would he ever come back on ASR? There is a reason 95% of all engineers do not go on internet forums and talk about their work. People with no knowledge will argue endlessly with the engineer who is trained, paid and expected to perform. Being "in the game" is A LOT tougher than our members realize. Please treat Chris with the respect due in that at least he came on here and tried to explain why things are what they are. Plus people can disagree while being nice. Endlessly arguing the same points over and over is not being nice.

The place where I take strong exception is people are so eager to want to have a company like PS Audio come on and “show some transparency.” In the wake of that, people are insisting that we not potentially drive him away and that we are “trashing” him and his work. I’m sorry, but that is the biggest load of bovine excrement to come down the pike yet. This is an objective audio form. Our responsibility is to treat Chris with respect. As I have stated I think Chris is a talented design engineer who as done admirably with that he has. But if we cannot voice our concerns without fear of driving him away, then we have failed as an objective audio form. I appreciate that Chris and the rest of PS Audio’s employees rely on PS Audio for a roof over their heads and food on the table. Being a design engineer myself and watching our own family business fail lord only knows I know the consequences all too well. But ensuring that PS Audio remains successful is not our responsibility. That falls on the elephant in the room here, Paul himself, which is where my reservations come from. Reason is the first company I worked for was run by an owner who was just like Paul outwardly. Right down to the fatherly figure happy to lend advice and a helping hand. While I have no knowledge of the internal workings of PS Audio, I can say in my situation the story was very different. The company did retail building design and fit-outs for a variety of big-box retailers and fast-food chains. The profit margins were razor tight with loads of liability and red tape to cut through when dealing with local jurisdictions and the smorgasbord of building codes and other regulations in place. It was a nightmare. But long story short this place RAN on appearances. Just one wrong move could drive a client away and tank the company. Even worse was them doing municipal work like school building design for many years that had turned into a litigation minefield. All it takes is for some Karen's little snowflake to get the sniffles from a mold spot on the wall, and your going to court. The culmination of this was you were EXPECTED to lie to clients. You had to wordsmith every email. Watch every word. Even a minor miss-step would be an issue. Found that out when a high-level project manager for a large retail store chain finally got fed up and called me during a meeting with him unknowingly to get the "real" story by framing it as an innocent inquiry. When I heard is tone suddenly change, I knew I was completely f***ed. As soon as my handset touched the cradle, I heard the thunderous explosion of the owner's own phone console suffering an in-flight breakup after it collided with the wall. He knew he had been caught out spinning another narrative, and could not blame him.

I think the reason many people don't want to discuss our own professional work is that we are not here in our professional capacities. I used to work at a nuclear design R&D center for an oilfield service company that worked with lots of sensitive ITAR technology and it was explicitly outlined in many places about what you could and could not talk about. Additionally most people don't want to shoot their mouths off about their current or former employers as its a private matter. Chris, however, I strongly suspect IS here in his professional capacity on behalf of PS Audio. People seem to have the impression that PS Audio has decided to turn over a new leaf but as far as I can tell by any metric, neither Paul nor PS Audio has changed one iota of how they do business, only the nature of the product. The thing that has changed is speakers. Even Paul knows damn well you have no hope of designing any functional speaker without measurements, and that's what has changed. As such, with PS Audio now doing objective measurements in some capacity, our Venn diagram now overlaps with theirs, and its only natural for Chris to be here. PS Audio will need to embrace some form of objective metrics for speaker design as the product line moves on, so might as well get the ball rolling. Am I grateful that Chris is here to give us a window into PS Audio's new speaker design and field questions? Of course. Come on. But we can't loose sight of the fact that the window is conspicuously framed by a flat-screen bezel. Say what you will about Paul's audio knowledge, but one thing that can be said about Paul is he is a very astute and shrewd business man. He knows what he is doing. While we are over here wringing our hands over our next checker move, I suspect he is sitting there calmly in Octave Studios playing chess, and that is the impression he wants to give. If Paul is going to do objective measurements, then he is going to do it his way. He will ensure that he at least has some modicum of control over the narrative as he will need to interface with other professionals who can help in that capacity, and an inevitable consequence of objective measurements is that its only a matter of time before some form of dirty laundry measurement-wise is aired out, so he needs to be able to respond effectively. But if he is tasked with doing measurements, then it will be done his way. He will do what he can to keep us at arm's length to ensure we don't rock the audiophile boat for his clientele. As for the FR30, is it a bad speaker? No, of course not. But I suspect its another chip off the old PS Audio block. It will do things really well, but it will fall short in other areas. But that is the nature of how they do things. Let me ask you this, if all that we have seen so far was for a $500 speaker from a large consumer audio manufacturer would we have the same opinions? Would we be so ingratiating to one of their technical engineers on here? In hypothetical terms as an objective audio form the answer should be no. Given the provenance of the FR30 and the history the actual answer is yes, to some extent. But if our opinion and demeanor would change radically, then we have fallen into the same subjectivist trap that audiophiles have.

As far as Chris, of course I want ASR to be welcoming. But that should not come with us policing ourselves for fear of driving him off. I'm sure that has happened here with manufacturers initially being eager to join in, only to suddenly close down when they get a bad taste in their mouths. On top of this Amir has to maintain the most objective viewpoint possible as he wants to give assurances to manufacturer's that they will not be railroaded in a review, and he has done admirably at that task. We all know that there is naturally duress in the audiophile marketing world given the current state of things. I don't deny that, and we likely don't even know the half of it or even the quarter of it from an insider's perspective. But Chris is a professional who should understand that there will be some sense of skepticism here given PS Audio's past history, and given the dearth of useable information, there will be speculation to take it's place. Its a natural consequence of inquiry. But if Chris suddenly runs away after being slighted, then we have lost nothing, as there was nothing to gain to begin with. I do hope we do have measurements since the FR30 has some unique design features that would be interesting to learn more about. I'm sure there will be very strong exception taken to what I said above in total and people will scold me for being so presumptuous about Paul and PS Audio, and that's fine. I'm glad you do, and I'm glad you are vocal about it. I want to hear what you have to say. That is, of course, why we are here to begin with. This is an open form, and we should not lose sight of that.

 

[Cars-N-Cans]

What is at 4:14? I missed whatever it was. Plus I have zero experience in mixing.

They have a speaker with the same (or similar) ribbon midrange and tweeter as the FR30. I don't know any details beyond that. It looks like its just used for level monitoring at that point. The final mixing seems to be done on the FR30s themselves. This is in contradiction to them appearing to use ATCs, but its hard to say more beyond that. One thing that is distinctive, though, is that if you listen to the samples in the Octave catalog, the mixing suddenly changes in tonality and character. It becomes rather dull and uninteresting, which is in contradiction to Paul's sentiments on things being intimate and revealing. I don't have any conclusion for that, other than being confused. One could argue skullduggery given that the video footage of the FR30s in action has the common theme of having Octave music as the source material, but in the video we have a clear audio reference with them doing the warm-up session in that the microphone seems to have a reasonable degree of fidelity. However, there is a distinct change when we hear it on the monitors. Granted, given all we know about speaker directivity and radiation patterns along with the use of planar ribbon drivers, drawing conclusions from that is beyond problematic, and these seem to just be used for monitoring of the levels. But I cant help but notice that they have the same sort of tonal character as the finished mixes. On top of this, Paul naturally is furiously scrubbing the comments in that video. My cousin is a mixing and mastering engineer who has worked at several prominent record labels, it would be interesting to get his take if I manage to see him at some point. But to me its just a head scratcher. Nothing seems to pass the smell test, but this was the theme with their electronics as well.

 

[dtaylo1066]

Some ASR members would disagree

I figure they would just get sick to their stomach about wasting money, but be fine shortly thereafter.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

The place where I take strong exception is people are so eager to want to have a company like PS Audio come on and “show some transparency.” In the wake of that, people are insisting that we not potentially drive him away and that we are “trashing” him and his work. I’m sorry, but that is the biggest load of bovine excrement to come down the pike yet. This is an objective audio form. Our responsibility is to treat Chris with respect. As I have stated I think Chris is a talented design engineer who as done admirably with that he has. But if we cannot voice our concerns without fear of driving him away, then we have failed as an objective audio form. I appreciate that Chris and the rest of PS Audio’s employees rely on PS Audio for a roof over their heads and food on the table. Being a design engineer myself and watching our own family business fail lord only knows I know the consequences all too well. But ensuring that PS Audio remains successful is not our responsibility. That falls on the elephant in the room here, Paul himself, which is where my reservations come from. Reason is the first company I worked for was run by an owner who was just like Paul outwardly. Right down to the fatherly figure happy to lend advice and a helping hand. While I have no knowledge of the internal workings of PS Audio, I can say in my situation the story was very different. The company did retail building design and fit-outs for a variety of big-box retailers and fast-food chains. The profit margins were razor tight with loads of liability and red tape to cut through when dealing with local jurisdictions and the smorgasbord of building codes and other regulations in place. It was a nightmare. But long story short this place RAN on appearances. Just one wrong move could drive a client away and tank the company. Even worse was them doing municipal work like school building design for many years that had turned into a litigation minefield. All it takes is for some Karen's little snowflake to get the sniffles from a mold spot on the wall, and your going to court. The culmination of this was you were EXPECTED to lie to clients. You had to wordsmith every email. Watch every word. Even a minor miss-step would be an issue. Found that out when a high-level project manager for a large retail store chain finally got fed up and called me during a meeting with him unknowingly to get the "real" story by framing it as an innocent inquiry. When I heard is tone suddenly change, I knew I was completely f***ed. As soon as my handset touched the cradle, I heard the thunderous explosion of the owner's own phone console suffering an in-flight breakup after it collided with the wall. He knew he had been caught out spinning another narrative, and could not blame him.

I think the reason many people don't want to discuss our own professional work is that we are not here in our professional capacities. I used to work at a nuclear design R&D center for an oilfield service company that worked with lots of sensitive ITAR technology and it was explicitly outlined in many places about what you could and could not talk about. Additionally most people don't want to shoot their mouths off about their current or former employers as its a private matter. Chris, however, I strongly suspect IS here in his professional capacity on behalf of PS Audio. People seem to have the impression that PS Audio has decided to turn over a new leaf but as far as I can tell by any metric, neither Paul nor PS Audio has changed one iota of how they do business, only the nature of the product. The thing that has changed is speakers. Even Paul knows damn well you have no hope of designing any functional speaker without measurements, and that's what has changed. As such, with PS Audio now doing objective measurements in some capacity, our Venn diagram now overlaps with theirs, and its only natural for Chris to be here. PS Audio will need to embrace some form of objective metrics for speaker design as the product line moves on, so might as well get the ball rolling. Am I grateful that Chris is here to give us a window into PS Audio's new speaker design and field questions? Of course. Come on. But we can't loose sight of the fact that the window is conspicuously framed by a flat-screen bezel. Say what you will about Paul's audio knowledge, but one thing that can be said about Paul is he is a very astute and shrewd business man. He knows what he is doing. While we are over here wringing our hands over our next checker move, I suspect he is sitting there calmly in Octave Studios playing chess, and that is the impression he wants to give. If Paul is going to do objective measurements, then he is going to do it his way. He will ensure that he at least has some modicum of control over the narrative as he will need to interface with other professionals who can help in that capacity, and an inevitable consequence of objective measurements is that its only a matter of time before some form of dirty laundry measurement-wise is aired out, so he needs to be able to respond effectively. But if he is tasked with doing measurements, then it will be done his way. He will do what he can to keep us at arm's length to ensure we don't rock the audiophile boat for his clientele. As for the FR30, is it a bad speaker? No, of course not. But I suspect its another chip off the old PS Audio block. It will do things really well, but it will fall short in other areas. But that is the nature of how they do things. Let me ask you this, if all that we have seen so far was for a $500 speaker from a large consumer audio manufacturer would we have the same opinions? Would we be so ingratiating to one of their technical engineers on here? In hypothetical terms as an objective audio form the answer should be no. Given the provenance of the FR30 and the history the actual answer is yes, to some extent. But if our opinion and demeanor would change radically, then we have fallen into the same subjectivist trap that audiophiles have.

As far as Chris, of course I want ASR to be welcoming. But that should not come with us policing ourselves for fear of driving him off. I'm sure that has happened here with manufacturers initially being eager to join in, only to suddenly close down when they get a bad taste in their mouths. On top of this Amir has to maintain the most objective viewpoint possible as he wants to give assurances to manufacturer's that they will not be railroaded in a review, and he has done admirably at that task. We all know that there is naturally duress in the audiophile marketing world given the current state of things. I don't deny that, and we likely don't even know the half of it or even the quarter of it from an insider's perspective. But Chris is a professional who should understand that there will be some sense of skepticism here given PS Audio's past history, and given the dearth of useable information, there will be speculation to take it's place. Its a natural consequence of inquiry. But if Chris suddenly runs away after being slighted, then we have lost nothing, as there was nothing to gain to begin with. I do hope we do have measurements since the FR30 has some unique design features that would be interesting to learn more about. I'm sure there will be very strong exception taken to what I said above in total and people will scold me for being so presumptuous about Paul and PS Audio, and that's fine. I'm glad you do, and I'm glad you are vocal about it. I want to hear what you have to say. That is, of course, why we are here to begin with. This is an open form, and we should not lose sight of that.

When I first joined here, I displayed the name of the company I work for as a design engineer. Bad idea. I got tons of crap and conspiracy theory nonsense which I had no desire to endure. So I dropped the company name, distanced myself from any company affiliation, and had far fewer headaches as a result. If there are future products or technologies which I come up with (and there is one in particular), I would feel fine with posting about it here. But I just can't spin facts. I'm not good at it and I can't do it.

 

[DWI]

They have a speaker with the same (or similar) ribbon midrange and tweeter as the FR30. I don't know any details beyond that. It looks like its just used for level monitoring at that point. The final mixing seems to be done on the FR30s themselves. This is in contradiction to them appearing to use ATCs, but its hard to say more beyond that. One thing that is distinctive, though, is that if you listen to the samples in the Octave catalog, the mixing suddenly changes in tonality and character. It becomes rather dull and uninteresting, which is in contradiction to Paul's sentiments on things being intimate and revealing. I don't have any conclusion for that, other than being confused. One could argue skullduggery given that the video footage of the FR30s in action has the common theme of having Octave music as the source material, but in the video we have a clear audio reference with them doing the warm-up session in that the microphone seems to have a reasonable degree of fidelity. However, there is a distinct change when we hear it on the monitors. Granted, given all we know about speaker directivity and radiation patterns along with the use of planar ribbon drivers, drawing conclusions from that is beyond problematic, and these seem to just be used for monitoring of the levels. But I cant help but notice that they have the same sort of tonal character as the finished mixes. On top of this, Paul naturally is furiously scrubbing the comments in that video. My cousin is a mixing and mastering engineer who has worked at several prominent record labels, it would be interesting to get his take if I manage to see him at some point. But to me its just a head scratcher. Nothing seems to pass the smell test, but this was the theme with their electronics as well.

Your post is somewhat misconceived. Measurements have always been vital to speaker design. You can read the BBC research and measurements going back to the 1930s, it’s online. That research alone has been the basis of dozens of companies and millions of speakers to the present day. Klippel is just an R&D tool that can speed things up. It can simulate far field measurements for people like Amir who are testing in limited space, but some speaker companies have their own anechoic chambers or easy access to one, sometimes very large ones where you can do real far field measurements down to 20Hz, or they can just measure in a very large free space, as PS Audio did, or in the open air.

Neither manufacturers nor owners send tower speakers like FR30 into ASR. Look at the review website, 4 from Revel, 2 from Amazon and some other tests by Erin, 17 articles in total. For me, tower speakers were my single largest audio purchase. Many speakers are measured professionally and reviewed elsewhere. Ask yourself why.

 

[Cars-N-Cans]

Your post is somewhat misconceived. Measurements have always been vital to speaker design. You can read the BBC research and measurements going back to the 1930s, it’s online. That research alone has been the basis of dozens of companies and millions of speakers to the present day. Klippel is just an R&D tool that can speed things up. It can simulate far field measurements for people like Amir who are testing in limited space, but some speaker companies have their own anechoic chambers or easy access to one, sometimes very large ones where you can do real far field measurements down to 20Hz, or they can just measure in a very large free space, as PS Audio did, or in the open air.

Neither manufacturers nor owners send tower speakers like FR30 into ASR. Look at the review website, 4 from Revel, 2 from Amazon and some other tests by Erin, 17 articles in total. For me, tower speakers were my single largest audio purchase. Many speakers are measured professionally and reviewed elsewhere. Ask yourself why.

I don't see what you are trying to get at. I have said the same thing in some other posts in this thread. You can't design speakers without objective measurements. Nobody disputes that. Its impossible due to the difficulties involved, unless you are just designing a boombox or cheap clock radio.

As for measuring the FR30, that's stating the obvious. It will never show up at ASR, and is unlikely to be measured on such a device due to its large size. They will use an external facility. Its possible to get it onto something like a Klippel if one was so inclined, but this would require a custom rig due to the size. It could potentially be possible to measure the modules separately, but that would require a fair amount of logistics in the form of external cross-over modules for testing and any potential fixturing needed to get it onto the machine and also to account for any acoustic nuances that result for divorcing the modules. The two measurements would pretty much tell most of what we need to know, but few people would find that acceptable given the perception of measurements needing to be conclusive and iron-clad. There is also the issue that even separately the modules might not be feasible to test.

That said, I would be more than happy with a simple spinorama of the on and off-axis responses from PS' own data similar to what's done in REW. It would at least give us the TL;DR for the FR30's objective performance, and that would be entirely satisfactory, for me at least given how tendentious objective measurements are on the subjective side of things. Yes there are other parameters of course, but unless I actually planned to purchase a pair, these are extraneous to me.

 

[DWI]

I don't see what you are trying to get at. I have said the same thing in some other posts in this thread. You can't design speakers without objective measurements. Nobody disputes that. Its impossible due to the difficulties involved, unless you are just designing a boombox or cheap clock radio.

As for measuring the FR30, that's stating the obvious. It will never show up at ASR, and is unlikely to be measured on such a device due to its large size. They will use an external facility. Its possible to get it onto something like a Klippel if one was so inclined, but this would require a custom rig due to the size. It could potentially be possible to measure the modules separately, but that would require a fair amount of logistics in the form of external cross-over modules for testing and any potential fixturing needed to get it onto the machine and also to account for any acoustic nuances that result for divorcing the modules. The two measurements would pretty much tell most of what we need to know, but few people would find that acceptable given the perception of measurements needing to be conclusive and iron-clad. There is also the issue that even separately the modules might not be feasible to test.

That said, I would be more than happy with a simple spinorama of the on and off-axis responses from PS' own data similar to what's done in REW. It would at least give us the TL;DR for the FR30's objective performance, and that would be entirely satisfactory, for me at least given how tendentious objective measurements are on the subjective side of things. Yes there are other parameters of course, but unless I actually planned to purchase a pair, these are extraneous to me.

They’ve already been measured by Miller Audio Labs for HiFi News & RR, I suppose Stereophile will measure them. They are available for demonstration at various places and people will make their own minds up. I suspect Chris Brunhaver engaging here is because he will get more technical questions about design than elsewhere, although I can‘t imagine it will have any impact on whether anyone buys them or not.

Audio magazines have wide readership over the the potential customer base. Some do objective testing, some do objective reviews, I rarely read them but I would want a subjective opinion, take it for what it is, no harm done. ASR seems to have influence in other audio market segments. Even if anyone outside of ASR published a Spinorama, it would be pretty pointless as hardly anyone would understand it. I wouldn’t. the magazines only print as much data as they think their readers are interested in, obviously more in Stereophile, less in HiFi News. All the same, HFN get the testing done by a professional lab.

 

[amirm]

They’ve already been measured by Miller Audio Labs for HiFi News & RR, I suppose Stereophile will measure them.

Both will show incorrect measurements.

 

[Enkay25]

They’ve already been measured by Miller Audio Labs for HiFi News & RR, I suppose Stereophile will measure them. They are available for demonstration at various places and people will make their own minds up. I suspect Chris Brunhaver engaging here is because he will get more technical questions about design than elsewhere, although I can‘t imagine it will have any impact on whether anyone buys them or not.

Audio magazines have wide readership over the the potential customer base. Some do objective testing, some do objective reviews, I rarely read them but I would want a subjective opinion, take it for what it is, no harm done. ASR seems to have influence in other audio market segments. Even if anyone outside of ASR published a Spinorama, it would be pretty pointless as hardly anyone would understand it. I wouldn’t. the magazines only print as much data as they think their readers are interested in, obviously more in Stereophile, less in HiFi News. All the same, HFN get the testing done by a professional lab.

It seems an obvious point is being lost in the melee. The young generations, if educated properly unlike the veterans, will understand enough to demand objective measurements like spinorama.

The world have benefitted immensely from science. Off course it is pointless for the older generations, who are immune to new thought process/ways of learning.

 

[DWI]

It seems an obvious point is being lost in the melee. The young generations, if educated properly unlike the veterans, will understand enough to demand objective measurements like spinorama.

The world have benefitted immensely from science. Off course it is pointless for the older generations, who are immune to new thought process/ways of learning.

The chances of that happening are about zero and nothing. And there are very good reasons why.

 

[Enkay25]

The chances of that happening are about zero and nothing. And there are very good reasons why.

Can you please elucidate these reasons?

 

[DWI]

Can you please elucidate these reasons?

The vast majority of audio consumers have never heard of Klippel.
Even less understand it.
Why try and understand something for a purchase made every 5 or 10 years?
No one sends tower / floorstanding speakers to ASR to test, primarily it’s bookshelf and monitors.
Retail consumers generally want to listen to speakers and there is no sign that is going to change.
In my experience retail dealers never discuss measurements, in 42 years it’s never happened. Ever.
Speakers are the main audio product that it is instantly obvious on listening whether you like the presentation or not, far more than electronics.
I have yet to read anyone suggest they would buy the FR30, so even with Amir’s recommendation, why bother?
That‘s the first few that come to mind.

 

[Purité Audio]

I discuss measurements with customers, the speakers anechoic and in-room measurements, and further the younger professional demographic understand them.
Keith

 

[Vacceo]

Drugs deal with people's safety and lives. There is no substitue for solid R&D, including in audio, but one will not die if one buys a poorly measured speaker.

Imagine the psychological damage it may inflict me if a poorly measured speaker turns Slayer into Diana Krall.

I discuss measurements with customers, the speakers anechoic and in-room measurements, and further the younger professional demographic understand them.
Keith

A store manager like you is a treasure for sure! That is what an honest professional should do!

 

[Cars-N-Cans]

Can you please elucidate these reasons?

I’m sure DWI can provide his own good points, but here are my thoughts, namely that people tend to be quite subjective and ideological in their approach to things. This makes things quite derisive. I have a friend who is an audiophile, and good luck getting any details out of him about his system, and for obvious reasons. He doesn't want the inevitable judgements of others who's opinions are different than his. The constant theme in the subjective audiophile world is the impression they are going to Mount Olympus to get their prized audion that will take them to sonic holography perfection. The truth is much different in that speakers are not speakers per se, but electroacoustic transducers whos job it is to generate the needed acoustic excitations within a room to generate the needed sound field. This, of course, means the room is the system, too, and not just the speakers, amplifier, DAC, or whatever.

Case in point would be my listening space which is heavily furnished, very absorptive, and quite dead. Amir recently reviewed the Polk ES20 and I have its '55 big brother with an HTS10 sub. Out of the box, it was bland, and very uninteresting. Dull, not much detail. But I could immediately tell this was not the speakers fault as I could clearly tell the room being very absorptive at higher frequencies combined with the narrowing directivity of the speaker there was conspiring against them. I had taken my own earlier measurements in ARTA of the horizontal/vertical directivity, on-axis, nearfield, etc. and aside from the obvious lack of exact precision, they were in good agreement with Amir's since the whole line is modular with the same drivers and design, outside of the eventualities of the larger cabinet and dual mid-bass drivers with semi-tapered cross-over. If an audiophile had a similar experience, the speaker in question would be out the door, and they would get back on the high-end merry-go-round until they found a speaker with enough of that "showroom sound" to compensate for the room, and then form a whole litany of opinions that are not tethered to reality. Of course, the other obvious solution is a speaker with constant directivity like a Genelec that would not be as easily influenced by the room. But never the less, in-situ measurements provided the solution with very satisfactory if not superlative results. Of course, this system would not be competitive with a true high-end audiophile system with proper engineering in that the diminutive drivers and modest subwoofer power will substantially limit the SPL levels that can be reached without undue distortion or other issues, not to mention that the in-room response has an f_3db around 45 Hz or so since there's only so much piston area available. It can be forced to go lower, but not without penalties. Many high end speakers can and do go much, much lower before the response rolls off.

But the point is that speakers are transducers, and any engineer can tell you that a common theme in transducers is calibration. I could not imagine using any sort of sensor without detailed specifications, and speakers are the same way. They are only the first step, not the final destination, of good sound reproduction. Some will obviously get you a lot closer than others. In my case its just hoping the stuff is not so far out that I can't bring it into line with EQ adjustments. In the audiophile world, its either take another spin on the hi-fi roulette wheel, or just accept what you have. Granted, most competent high end systems will get there without too much issue. But if you take something like a high end Revel, SF, etc. that is a big speaker and shove it into a shoebox-sized apartment in Tokyo, its just not going to work (well, it probably can be made to, but you get my drift). The room is the missing half of the equation, and I think this is why I don't often feel overly moved when hearing high-end speakers in showrooms and such. Maybe one of these days it would be nice to get to a show, but its likely to be much the same there, too. You can "listen through" the room, but its not the same as hearing the system after careful optimization, and I'm not talking about what Paul outlines in his audiophile guide. I bought it and gave it a read. I liked it. It was entertaining and interesting, but from a technical perspective the only feeling it could evoke was a sense of profound hopelessness from the lack of anything useful in regards to addressing the inherent issues.