Poll for Topping PA5 owners only please.

[Roland68]

A brief summary of this thread:
The PA5 amp breaks, it has a systematic defect in the design. Many warranty replacement amps broke too. Many people bought two, and both broke. The defect rate is extremely high.
@TOPPING-Service and @JohnYang1997 and many of the resellers are not helpful.
ASR member has identified the problem, developed a fix for the systematic defect. The replacement module costs less than the effort of engaging Topping, who don't seem to understand reliability or customer service.

In addition, I would like to point out very clearly that this is not a design error.
The problem is the potting compound used to encapsulate the encapsulated modules in order to conceal the circuit. The irony is that almost all of the module circuits have now been published because the potting compound causes these problems. Only the modules would not fail at all.
A repair by Topping is also only temporary, as various experiences show.

The big question is why Topping continues to install such modules with potting compound in various devices. Technically, it makes no sense at all and it also offers no protection for the secrets of the circuit.
So what's the point if it now costs hundreds or even thousands of customers?
And why do customers have to pay for this nonsense?

@TOPPING-Service and @JohnYang1997, there is a very wise saying, if your horse is dead, get off.
Perhaps Topping should discontinue these modules very publicly, with apologies and reparations to the customers who were harmed, before Topping is a dead horse.

 

[Eldus]

The PA5 II/Plus does not have reports of failure. Right? That is the replacement I received.

 

[MAB]

The PA5 II/Plus does not have reports of failure. Right? That is the replacement I received.

As far as I know, the PA5 II does not have the large systematic failure rate.

That being said, it still uses the encapsulated module in the design. Unless they learned how to model and mitigate mechanical and thermal stress in their encapsulated circuits, they can only rely on luck for reliability.

 

[antcollinet]

that this is not a design error.

It is a design error - just a mechanical/process design error rather than electronic.

Or a failure to properly validate the design.

As far as I know, the PA5 II does not have the large systematic failure rate.

That being said, it still uses the encapsulated module in the design. Unless they learned how to model and mitigate mechanical and thermal stress in their encapsulated circuits, they can only rely on luck for reliability.

As I understand it they removed the IC's from the module which is the parts (or tracking) which were failing.

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

My PA5 is going on three years old. No issues so far, but when it dies, I'll replace it with the PA5 II. My only gripe is that the Mark II model is not available in red. I currently have a matching red E50 / L50 / PA5 stack on my desk. Will be a slight bummer for the replacement amp to be a different color, but I'll live with it.

 

[Eldus]

My PA5 is going on three years old. No issues so far, but when it dies, I'll replace it with the PA5 II. My only gripe is that the Mark II model is not available in red. I currently have a matching red E50 / L50 / PA5 stack on my desk. Will be a slight bummer for the replacement amp to be a different color, but I'll live with it.

I wanted a blue one. I almost bought a red PA5. The black PA5 II does have a red ring on the volume knob.

 

[DWPress]

My only gripe is that the Mark II model is not available in red.

Haven't checked but can you just swap the guts or are there other port/design changes?

 

[Roland68]

It is a design error - just a mechanical/process design error rather than electronic.

Or a failure to properly validate the design.

I just wanted to explicitly point out that the PA5 does not have a circuit or component fault in the usual sense, but that the failures are caused solely by the unnecessary potting compound.

Thanks to @gamerpaddy preliminary work, I have now repaired 8 PA5s, solely by removing the potting compound, cleaning and re-soldering. It was not necessary to replace a component in any of them.

 

[Martinvb]

I just wanted to explicitly point out that the PA5 does not have a circuit or component fault in the usual sense, but that the failures are caused solely by the unnecessary potting compound.

Thanks to @gamerpaddy preliminary work, I have now repaired 8 PA5s, solely by removing the potting compound, cleaning and re-soldering. It was not necessary to replace a component in any of them.

Sounds interesting to do on my own PA5. Can you perhaps provide a walkthrough of this process? I suppose I would be able to do this by myself, but perhaps there are some caveats to consider before starting to remove the compound.

 

[antcollinet]

Sounds interesting to do on my own PA5. Can you perhaps provide a walkthrough of this process? I suppose I would be able to do this by myself, but perhaps there are some caveats to consider before starting to remove the compound.

Much MUCH easier to get a replacement module from @gamerpaddy and swap.

 

[Martinvb]

Much MUCH easier to get a replacement module from @gamerpaddy and swap.

Sure, but can still do that when mission fails…

 

[Holmz]

I just wanted to explicitly point out that the PA5 does not have a circuit or component fault in the usual sense, but that the failures are caused solely by the unnecessary potting compound.

Thanks to @gamerpaddy preliminary work, I have now repaired 8 PA5s, solely by removing the potting compound, cleaning and re-soldering. It was not necessary to replace a component in any of them.

If ^that^ is the case then why is the support from Topping so legendarily lacking?

If the potting compound mechanism is true , then it ihas parallels with the story of Achilles.

 

[Roland68]

If ^that^ is the case then why is the support from Topping so legendarily lacking?

If the potting compound mechanism is true , then it ihas parallels with the story of Achilles.

Just ask Topping why this is the case.

What do you doubt? That the defects are real, or that Topping charges high shipping and repair costs for its own mistakes, which often amount to 50-80% of the new price? And all this without a guarantee that the same defect will not occur again.

But it is not much better with other companies, such as SMSL.
There are errors or problems with the firmware that are not fixed or are fixed inadequately.

 

[Talisman]

My PA5 is going on three years old. No issues so far, but when it dies, I'll replace it with the PA5 II. My only gripe is that the Mark II model is not available in red. I currently have a matching red E50 / L50 / PA5 stack on my desk. Will be a slight bummer for the replacement amp to be a different color, but I'll live with it.

I can ask you, without any polemical intent, just to understand.
You have purchased an amplifier which, although it works well, suffers from a serious design flaw for which Topping has not taken responsibility. Aware of this, as soon as it breaks (because it will) will you buy the next model from the same brand? Why? Don't you feel cheated as a consumer?

 

[Roland68]

Sounds interesting to do on my own PA5. Can you perhaps provide a walkthrough of this process? I suppose I would be able to do this by myself, but perhaps there are some caveats to consider before starting to remove the compound.

Information about this can be found in this thread and in the two linked ones.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-pa5-review-amplifier.28512/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ix-d01-module-replacement-for-everyone.44219/
Search for posts by @gamerpaddy

 

[Holmz]

Just ask Topping why this is the case.

What do you doubt? That the defects are real, or that Topping charges high shipping and repair costs for its own mistakes, which often amount to 50-80% of the new price? And all this without a guarantee that the same defect will not occur again.

But it is not much better with other companies, such as SMSL.
There are errors or problems with the firmware that are not fixed or are fixed inadequately.

I was harkening back to the story of Achillies mother Peleus dunking little Achilles in the river Styx as a babe.
While I do not recall reading about SMSL in the Homeric texts,.. it looks like the potting compound did not protect the printed circuit board any better than the water in the river Styx having missing the young Achilles heal.

 

[Sokel]

I was harkening back to the story of Achillies mother Peleus dunking little Achilles in the river Styx as a babe.
While I do not recall reading about SMSL in the Homeric texts,.. it looks like the potting compound did not protect the printed circuit board any better than the water in the river Styx having missing the young Achilles heal.

To be correct Peleus was his (step) father,the real one is Zeus,his mother was Thetis which was a Titan and she's considered Justice's Goddess (the blindfolded one) .

Thetis et Pelee Opera by Pascal Collasse is not widely known but tells some of the story.

 

[Martinvb]

Information about this can be found in this thread and in the two linked ones.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-pa5-review-amplifier.28512/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ix-d01-module-replacement-for-everyone.44219/
Search for posts by @gamerpaddy

Found it, thanks. Have to gather some courage to do this…

 

[Roland68]

Found it, thanks. Have to gather some courage to do this…

Important: Be sure to remove the module from the board before you start working on the module.
Also make sure that you don't damage the amplifier board when desoldering it, the module is replaceable thanks to @gamerpaddy .

 

[Holmz]

To be correct Peleus was his (step) father,the real one is Zeus,his mother was Thetis which was a Titan and she's considered Justice's Goddess (the blindfolded one) .

Thetis et Pelee Opera by Pascal Collasse is not widely known but tells some of the story.

Thanks…
I get the genders mixed up these days.