Outlaw 2220 Review (Monoblock Amplifier)

[Deleted member 21219]

Had 2 of the 2220’s. Replaced them with 2 Vidars. In my opinion the musicality of the Schitt Vidars is superior to 2220. No mechanical or heating issues with any of these amps.
HC-1’s may not be a fair comparison, but they also sound better than the 2220.
But hey the 2220 is way cheaper.

And what, pray tell, is "musicality"?

A competently designed amp, operating within its power envelope, has no "sound", good, bad, musicality or otherwise. Amps that have "sound" are either incompetently designed or deliberately designed to sound "different", a useful selling point for the snake oil industry.

However, it is very possible that listeners fall prey to cognitive biases, and many will swear that they hear so-and-so or such-and-such, until they use a rigorously controlled double-blind test. Then things change.

Here is a list of cognitive biases:

List of cognitive biases - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And here is a protocol for double-blind tests:

Audio Blind Testing - You Are Doing It Wrong! (Video)

Just uploaded a video on the basics of performing controlled tests in audio. It was motivated by saving myself text in having to write all of this down when telling someone who to do these tests right. And as a counter to a few online personalities to keep saying they do "blind" tests yet when...

www.audiosciencereview.com

In fact, if you are interested, here is a list of pertinent videos made by Amir that explain a great deal of many different audio subjects:

Master List of Instructional Teaching Video presentations (How to read and interpret/understand all the Graphs and Charts!

Collection of Amir’s instructional Videos for reference, refresher and new members: (“Behind the Curtain @ ASR University”) Welcome New and returning Members of ASR. Our Host Amir has put together a collection of comprehensive instructional videos that might help new and returning Members...

www.audiosciencereview.com

If you have any questions, please ask. Members are always willing to help you.

Jim

 

[Wooferhead]

Had 2 of the 2220’s. Replaced them with 2 Vidars. In my opinion the musicality of the Schitt Vidars is superior to 2220. No mechanical or heating issues with any of these amps.
HC-1’s may not be a fair comparison, but they also sound better than the 2220.
But hey the 2220 is way cheaper.

Some claim that Vidar has noticeable transformer hums. Have you noticed any in your Vidar? Are yours the original Vidar or the improved Vidar 2?

 

[MajorMajorMajorMajor]

Commenting on this to reference later

 

[peng]

Some claim that Vidar has noticeable transformer hums. Have you noticed any in your Vidar? Are yours the original Vidar or the improved Vidar 2?

If a slight hum that can be heard from a couple feet bothers you, go with the Outlaw, my M2200 is near silent even with ears touching the box, the 2220 uses the same transformer.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

I have a pair of 2220s in my office. If it is totally quiet in the office, and I get my ear about 8 inches away from the top of the unit, specifically the left hand side perforations (power supply side), I can hear a very slight noise on my left channel block. If memory serves, it doesn't sound like AC hum from the transformer. I am not at the office, so I can't test right now, but maybe a bit of coil whine? I hadn't thought to put a mic to it for a frequency reading since it is so minimal. I only noticed the noise when I was unnaturally close to the unit, while reconnecting cables in the back. I probably would have never noticed otherwise. I have not noticed any noise from the right channel block at all.

 

[JimWeir]

I have a pair of 2220s in my office. If it is totally quiet in the office, and I get my ear about 8 inches away from the top of the unit, specifically the left hand side perforations (power supply side), I can hear a very slight noise on my left channel block. If memory serves, it doesn't sound like AC hum from the transformer. I am not at the office, so I can't test right now, but maybe a bit of coil whine? I hadn't thought to put a mic to it for a frequency reading since it is so minimal. I only noticed the noise when I was unnaturally close to the unit, while reconnecting cables in the back. I probably would have never noticed otherwise. I have not noticed any noise from the right channel block at all.

It’s probably 120Hz Triboelectric vibration.

 

[Garrison]

Long time reader, first time poster. I have learned a lot here, so a thanks is in order!

I am in the mental process of narrowing down some system upgrades for the house. I currently have three systems. One multi media room (which is pretty well set), my main 2 channel room (which is the main focus of the upgrade) and a 2.1 set up in the garage/Dad space (which will be upgraded via moving some of my current gear.)

The two channel space is home to my beloved Vandersteen 2Ce sig II's. I currently push them with an older Van Alstine control amp with every available power upgrade (90+ watts into 8 ohms of what seems to be pretty clean power). It is fed by a Topping E50, thanks to the reviews found here. The older Music Hall amp that was in my garage crapped the bed, and I would like to move the Control Amp to the garage due to not having a remote and do a modest upgrade to my 2 channel system.

Outlaw 2220's seem like they would do the job nicely and at reasonable price. But there is some internal debate keeping me from pulling the trigger.

Options:

Power
Pair of Outlaw 2220's, a Vidar 2, or possibly a Buckeye Purifi or Hypex offering.

Preamp
Topping Pre90 or a Schiit Kara (Headhones are not a deal breaker, I am wanting to hear my speakers at their affordable best)

Any thoughts or ideas?

Thanks,
Garrison

Sorry if this was the wrong place to ask this.

 

[Toroid]

Long time reader, first time poster. I have learned a lot here, so a thanks is in order!

I am in the mental process of narrowing down some system upgrades for the house. I currently have three systems. One multi media room (which is pretty well set), my main 2 channel room (which is the main focus of the upgrade) and a 2.1 set up in the garage/Dad space (which will be upgraded via moving some of my current gear.)

The two channel space is home to my beloved Vandersteen 2Ce sig II's. I currently push them with an older Van Alstine control amp with every available power upgrade (90+ watts into 8 ohms of what seems to be pretty clean power). It is fed by a Topping E50, thanks to the reviews found here. The older Music Hall amp that was in my garage crapped the bed, and I would like to move the Control Amp to the garage due to not having a remote and do a modest upgrade to my 2 channel system.

Outlaw 2220's seem like they would do the job nicely and at reasonable price. But there is some internal debate keeping me from pulling the trigger.

Options:

Power
Pair of Outlaw 2220's, a Vidar 2, or possibly a Buckeye Purifi or Hypex offering.

Preamp
Topping Pre90 or a Schiit Kara (Headhones are not a deal breaker, I am wanting to hear my speakers at their affordable best)

Any thoughts or ideas?

Thanks,
Garrison

Sorry if this was the wrong place to ask this.

2220's vs Vidar - I've been debating that, as well. If we are talking about Vidar 1, then I think Amir recommend the 2220s, however, I don't believe Amir reviewed the Vidar 2 yet, and that amp got a serious overhaul (people on the internet have noted it sounds much better, too). I think we need @amirm to give the Vidar 2 a review. Honestly, I think you can't go wrong either way, but if balanced connections are a deal breaker then get the 2220. I'm personally leaning toward Vidar 2 after all the research I've done.

 

[Miser_Audioman]

2220's vs Vidar - I've been debating that, as well. If we are talking about Vidar 1, then I think Amir recommend the 2220s, however, I don't believe Amir reviewed the Vidar 2 yet, and that amp got a serious overhaul (people on the internet have noted it sounds much better, too). I think we need @amirm to give the Vidar 2 a review. Honestly, I think you can't go wrong either way, but if balanced connections are a deal breaker then get the 2220. I'm personally leaning toward Vidar 2 after all the research I've done.

Was there an article or measurement that is swaying you to the vidar 2?

 

[Garrison]

Even though relatively inexpensive, I have a hard time justifying the purchase of 2 Vidar mono blocks compared to the 2220. The Vidar 2 would have to be a pretty large improvement, and much better at 4ohm loads in bridged mode.

 

[Miser_Audioman]

Even though relatively inexpensive, I have a hard time justifying the purchase of 2 Vidar mono blocks compared to the 2220. The Vidar 2 would have to be a pretty large improvement, and much better at 4ohm loads in bridged mode.

Yes and frankly the required balanced connections to monoblock the vidar or aegir complicate selection of pre amps and subwoofer management. All can be solved with money, but i prefer to use my avr as a preamp and bass manager for now.

 

[IEales]

I bought a pair of the Outlaw M2220 about a month after the review in April 2022 to replace a NuPrime ST-10 for the woofer drivers in my tri-amp + subs system.

I put them on the bench and ran them in for a day or so and then confirmed they met spec and then some.

In the system they are quieter - no HF artifacts, hum, nada! Ear on the grill cloth, nothing can be heard in our ≈37dB ambient room.

Playing, they appear to have limitless power. With no caps or inductors between the amp and driver, control is superb.

 

[EddNog]

Does anybody know the gain (specifically with XLR input) on these?

-Ed

 

[iraweiss]

The manual says +27dB (1.7V sensitivity) for full output

 

[EddNog]

The manual says +27dB (1.7V sensitivity) for full output

I checked the manual and didn’t see this! I do not know how I missed it. Thanks very much!

-Ed

 

[Toroid]

I checked the manual and didn’t see this! I do not know how I missed it. Thanks very much!

-Ed

Ed, you going to compare against the v3 monos? I would be interested in that comparison.

 

[EddNog]

Ed, you going to compare against the v3 monos? I would be interested in that comparison.

I haven’t made my mind up yet whether or not I’d get a pair. Frankly my system just sounds so good right now, I may not bother. It seems silly but I guess my main desire is to have something with 12V triggers, which V3 Monos do not, and I’m not the biggest fan of the audio-sense auto-on/-off. Too bad ZA3 doesn’t have defeatable volume circuit, or PFFB.

-Ed

 

[IEales]

My 2019 manual and the one currently online say: Input Sensitivity 1.6 Volts 8 ohm load/1.4Volts 4 ohm load

 

[DonH56]

The manual says +27dB (1.7V sensitivity) for full output

This is for the older M2200.

My 2019 manual and the one currently online say: Input Sensitivity 1.6 Volts 8 ohm load/1.4Volts 4 ohm load

And this is for the current (this review) M2220.

 

[EddNog]

…And this is for the current (this review) M2220.

Thanks; with those sensitivities, based on the rated max power at each, 4ohms (300w) and 8ohms (200w), the gain calculated is ~27-28dB. This is very helpful to know in my decision making. Due to DSP/room correction usage (and eating up some of my gain), I am finding the +20dB gain (in XLR) of the V3 Monos a little bit short of ideal, so the additional gain of the Model 2220 would be quite nice to have.

The question then becomes: is the difference in SINAD between V3 Mono versus Model 2220 noticeable?

-Ed