Outlaw 2220 Review (Monoblock Amplifier)

[DWMadeiraPt]

Curious how a pair of these would compare to the power section of the Outlaw RR2160 receiver (I don't think that particular model has been tested here).

I have the RR2160 currently, but am planning to change to a multi-channel AVR plus an external amp for front L&R. The RR2160 is great, but it's too big for me to keep in my cabinet just for that role. So I'm wondering if a pair of 2220 would have about the same performance. I know I'd be changing preamp sections too, but would probably utilize direct mode on the AVR for most 2-channel listening (though that silences the subs, which is a conundrum). Anyway, I digress. Just wondering if these would probably outperform the power section of the RR2160.

I think it would be safe to say that a pair of 2220's would easily outperform the RR2160. The RR2160 is rated at 110 wpc while the 2220's are rated at 200 wpc. If you were pairing the 2160 with some efficient speakers, it would probably do fine. But, 200 watts will wake up about everything. I had a Yamaha AVR which was rated at 100 wpc for the mains. Going to the 2200's was night and day. I have since gone to a Yamaha CX-a5100 pre-amp driving Qty. 5 of the M2200's. These Outlaw Mono's are heavy lifters.

 

[On7green]

Just ordered a pair of these. To hang out with a 300B, Class D monos, 6L6 monos, a Pentode PP, and a pair of 7 channel AVRs, 3 DACs, two turntables, 3 preamps, and four sets of speakers. One of these combinations is bound to sound OK. But getting a little crowded.

 

[dave999z]

Just ordered a pair of these. To hang out with a 300B, Class D monos, 6L6 monos, a Pentode PP, and a pair of 7 channel AVRs, 3 DACs, two turntables, 3 preamps, and four sets of speakers. One of these combinations is bound to sound OK. But getting a little crowded.

Will be very curious to hear what you think of the 2200s compared to Class D (assuming you have a pretty new high end class D). If/when I switch to an AVR, I'm also highly considering a class D stereo power amp as opposed to 2 x M2200. The only experience I have with decent class D is my Genelec 8330As, which I like very much, but now sure how class D is at driving full range towers.

 

[On7green]

Will be very curious to hear what you think of the 2200s compared to Class D (assuming you have a pretty new high end class D). If/when I switch to an AVR, I'm also highly considering a class D stereo power amp as opposed to 2 x M2200. The only experience I have with decent class D is my Genelec 8330As, which I like very much, but now sure how class D is at driving full range towers.

The 2220s came in perfect condition and I put them in service yesterday via RCA connection to a VAC Std. LE tube preamp and a pair of Totem Forest speakers (2-way). The monoblocks sound very good. Amir's recommendation is right on IMO.

I have been using a pair of NuForce Ref 9 monoblocks in the same setup. I'm not sure how the NuForce amps would rate now, but a higher end Class D from 10 years ago. Keeping them running has been the challenge. I also have used a pair of Quicksilver 6L6 monos as amps (30 wpc) in this setup.

Not sure what I was expecting, but the tube amps and 2220s sound more alike than different. With the 2220s being more forceful. And the NuForce amps sound different. There is more "detail" (for lack of a better word) both in the low and high frequencies. Bells and cymbals ring longer and bass guitar and uprights are more distinguishable in the mix. Not sure if this is good or bad? Maybe good.

Probably doesn't help much to answer the full range tower question. Plenty of detail I would imagine. The comparison makes me want to hear a newer Class D module. Teaching, practice, and enlightenment.

 

[Wooferhead]

For sure two of these. Far more power and cleaner.

It makes perfect sense on paper since Vidar 2 has only 100W RMS/ch vs 200W RMS/ch of the Outlaw 2220.

However, I've read a review by someone who owns both amps. He actually claims that the Vidar 2 has better bass and midrange compared to the 2220. He is quite surprised by the result. I tend to believe him. I am wondering if it is due to the fact that Vidar 2 is a proper Class AB amp while the 2220 is only technically a Class AB amp with the Class G power management enhancement feature. I suppose the different design would make an audible sonic difference between the two. Of course, I am only guessing here without any measurements or actual experience in listening to them.

What is your opinion on this?

 

[pjug]

I wouldn't put too much faith in those impressions. The measurements don't show a distortion problem from rail switching with the 2220. Both amps have the same total power supply capacitance per channel, and the vidar2 says "dual-mono-ish" which I take to mean separate power supply rails for each channel. I would be surprised if they don't sound the same.

 

[Wooferhead]

I wouldn't put too much faith in those impressions. The measurements don't show a distortion problem from rail switching with the 2220. Both amps have the same total power supply capacitance per channel, and the vidar2 says "dual-mono-ish" which I take to mean separate power supply rails for each channel. I would be surprised if they don't sound the same.

Apparently this guy who owns both Vidar 2 and 2220 claims they sound noticeably different. BTW, he also bridges the Vidar 2 amps into two mono blocks for the review. Of course, it is strictly his opinion and impression. It is all highly subjective. However, it sounds very plausible to me for the two amps are indeed quite different physically - 2 ch stereo amp vs mono block as well as Class AB vs Class AB/G design. I would be surprised if they sound the same. Only I thought the 2220 would be the better one among the two and not the other way round considering its format and power. I like both amps on paper, though.

 

[pjug]

Apparently this guy who owns both Vidar 2 and 2220 claims they sound noticeably different. BTW, he also bridges the Vidar 2 amps into two mono blocks for the review. Of course, it is strictly his opinion and impression. It is all highly subjective. However, it sounds very plausible to me for the two amps are indeed quite different physically - 2 ch stereo amp vs mono block as well as Class AB vs Class AB/G design. I would be surprised if they sound the same. Only I thought the 2220 would be the better one among the two and not the other way round considering its format and power. I like both amps on paper, though.

Maybe this is what you saw? https://www.avsforum.com/threads/outlaw-audio-2220-vs-schiit-audio-vidar.3198755/
I wouldn't trust this kind of subjective report. We don't even know if the outputs of the amps were level matched.

But I am not trying to talk you out of buying the Vidar2. I would just look at other factors such as:

* 2220 has more power
* Vidar2 has less noise
* Vidar2 is made in USA and has a 5 year warranty
* form factor could be preferred either way
* transformer mechanical hum (both my 2200 are silent whereas my understanding is that Schiit tolerates a bit of mechanical hum)

 

[Wooferhead]

Maybe this is what you saw? https://www.avsforum.com/threads/outlaw-audio-2220-vs-schiit-audio-vidar.3198755/
I wouldn't trust this kind of subjective report. We don't even know if the outputs of the amps were level matched.

But I am not trying to talk you out of buying the Vidar2. I would just look at other factors such as:

* 2220 has more power
* Vidar2 has less noise
* Vidar2 is made in USA and has a 5 year warranty
* form factor could be preferred either way
* transformer mechanical hum (both my 2200 are silent whereas my understanding is that Schiit tolerates a bit of mechanical hum)

I think that's the one. It's a tough decision to make. I can see pros and cons of both amps. I like them both for different reasons. More research on them is needed. However, I do lean more toward separates. I wish I could audition both and find out for myself instead of relying on the words of others.

 

[Deleted member 21219]

I think that's the one. It's a tough decision to make. I can see pros and cons of both amps. I like them both for different reasons. More research on them is needed. However, I do lean more toward separates. I wish I could audition both and find out for myself instead of relying on the words of others.

If an amp is competently designed and has adequate power for the speaker you're going to drive in the space you're going to drive it, auditioning will show up only one thing: hum. And that will be applicable only to the particular amp you use to audition; if you order a new one, the hum characteristics may be different (better or worse). So auditioning is really worthless in 99% of the cases.

In fact, auditioning can be a bad deal. Whether it's in a dealer's showroom or in your home, the levels need to be matched perfectly. Otherwise, you'll get the (erroneous) impression that one is "better" than the other, which won't be true.

I'm in the same position as you are. The last audio retailer left the area about 8 years ago, and when I buy new, it will perforce be with no audition. The thing is, I am not worried. If it measures OK, it is OK.

Good luck on your choice. Personally, if I were to gamble,. I'd gamble on the Outlaw ....... but that's just me.

Jim

 

[Wooferhead]

If an amp is competently designed and has adequate power for the speaker you're going to drive in the space you're going to drive it, auditioning will show up only one thing: hum. And that will be applicable only to the particular amp you use to audition; if you order a new one, the hum characteristics may be different (better or worse). So auditioning is really worthless in 99% of the cases.

In fact, auditioning can be a bad deal. Whether it's in a dealer's showroom or in your home, the levels need to be matched perfectly. Otherwise, you'll get the (erroneous) impression that one is "better" than the other, which won't be true.

I'm in the same position as you are. The last audio retailer left the area about 8 years ago, and when I buy new, it will perforce be with no audition. The thing is, I am not worried. If it measures OK, it is OK.

Good luck on your choice. Personally, if I were to gamble,. I'd gamble on the Outlaw ....... but that's just me.

Jim

Thanks for your advice, Jim. I do believe in measurements. Both the Vidar (previous version) and the 2220 measure well by Amirm. So, I am not really concerned about the quality and the overall performance of both amps. It is mainly the sound signature of each that is on my mind.

On paper, I would assume 2220 to sound better than Vardar 2. So, it kind of throws me off a little when someone who owns both amps claims the opposite to be true. It is a bit of a gamble to make a decision out of blind faith since I have no experience with any of the products from both companies. I guess I will have go with my instinct then.

 

[Deleted member 21219]

Thanks for your advice, Jim. I do believe in measurements. Both the Vidar (previous version) and the 2220 measure well by Amirm. So, I am not really concerned about the quality and the overall performance of both amps. It is mainly the sound signature of each that is on my mind.

On paper, I would assume 2220 to sound better than Vardar 2. So, it kind of throws me off a little when someone who owns both amps claims the opposite to be true. It is a bit of a gamble to make a decision out of blind faith since I have no experience with any of the products from both companies. I guess I will have go with my instinct then.

Perhaps I was not clear.

There is no "sound signature". One does not "sound" better than the other. Any amp that has characteristics that are below the threshold of human hearing will sound identical to any other amp that has characteristics that are below the threshold of human hearing, even though there are differences in measurements.

People who say otherwise are doing one of two things; either they are fooling themselves, of they are trying to fool you.

Jim

 

[RichB]

I owned the prior version of tis amp, the 2200. It sounded very good even driving my Salon2s at modest levels.
My friend and I did a level matched comparison of the M2200 and Parasound A21 driving his Revel F206s.

We felt that the M2200 amp became harsh sounding when driving the F206s in the mid 80 dB range.
This was not observed with the A21.
It may be that this (older version) was introducing detectable distortion when rail switching.

I'd expect that rail switching amp might need additional measurements to determine if there are any issues with content.

- Rich

 

[pjug]

I'd expect that rail switching amp might need additional measurements to determine if there are any issues with content.

Won't any rail switching issues show up as distortion when measuring above the rail switching voiltage? Like you see in the measurement linked below. You don't see this in the 2200 or 2220.

Creek Evolution 100A integrated amplifier Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements I measured the Creek Evolution 100A using my Audio Precision SYS2722 system (see www.ap.com, and the January 2008 "As We See It"). Like many modern integrated amplifiers, the Evolution 100A covers all the bases in terms of sources and purposes, with USB, S/PDIF, and...

www.stereophile.com

 

[Wooferhead]

Anyone here owns an Emotiva BasX A1? I am very much interested in finding out its performance and how it compares with the 2220.

Please share if you do. It'd be much appreciated.

 

[Soupial]

How well does the auto on/off feature work on the 2220? In my experience most amps are not sensitive enough to it and you have to keep the volume up fairly loud in order for the amp to not shut off. Also you don't want it too sensitive or else simply flipping on a light switch could trigger the amp on.

 

[iraweiss]

I use the 12 v trigger and it never fails. Turn the receiver off and the amps go click and turn off.

 

[Soupial]

My DAC/Pre doesn't have a 12v trigger so I'm in the market for one with an auto sensing feature. Right now the best options I'm aware of are Buckeye amps and these Outlaws. Anything else that stands out?

 

[GDTRFB]

How well does the auto on/off feature work on the 2220? In my experience most amps are not sensitive enough to it and you have to keep the volume up fairly loud in order for the amp to not shut off. Also you don't want it too sensitive or else simply flipping on a light switch could trigger the amp on.

The auto on/off works great on my pair of 2220’s with my Ascend Sierra LX’s. They turn on with very little volume, and have never turned off while listening. They turn off after ~10-15mins of no-signal (haven’t timed it, but seems like 10+ mins).

With extraordinarily sensitive speakers in a small space, maybe you’d have to turn it up to a mild/low volume. However, if your speakers are truly that sensitive, do you really need the power of the Outlaws?

For what it’s worth, I love my Outlaw 2220’s. They are solid, built well, perform exactly as they should, and drive my speakers wonderfully. Highly recommend.

 

[rmarks61]

Had 2 of the 2220’s. Replaced them with 2 Vidars. In my opinion the musicality of the Schitt Vidars is superior to 2220. No mechanical or heating issues with any of these amps.
HC-1’s may not be a fair comparison, but they also sound better than the 2220.
But hey the 2220 is way cheaper.