Topping B200 Monoblock Amplifier Review

[stefanovesa]

Hi all, do I need preamp for B200, or Topping D90III Discreate is enough?
Thank you

Hi,
from the Topping website:

 

[Azrael]

I want to power this driver: https://eighteensound.it/en/products/hf-driver/1-5/8/ND4015BE

I am worried it may not be enough power.

113dB/1W/1M? How loud do you want? Or I guess maybe how big is the room?

Oh, and the specs for your driver suggest it can go to ear damaging levels with just 1W of power. You will not be short of power with the B200.

Exactly. When I once developed a small loudspeaker with the BMS 4550 compression driver on the Limmer 021 horn as the tweeter, I operated the drivers unconnected at 2.83 volts (1 W into 8 ohms) in order to measure them acoustically. The tweeter almost made my ears bleed and I quickly got myself some hearing protection.

And now imagine 150 watts....

Or do you want to fill a hall with sound?

 

[Zuviene1]

I mean I am using it close to -30db mark, even would like to think sometimes -25db. And its only mids and tweeters at moment, and low woofer will need most of yhe power in bass region, going down to 3ohm load. As by Amirs review, if I understand properly(?), I do need more power?

 

[howard416]

I also wouldn't buy an amp at this price level with an external PSU - two of them for a pair.

But this is not a safety issue, any more than the kettle cord for your .... kettle ... carrying a much higher voltage is.

For me it is simply a convenience and aesthetic issue.

As a consumer, you don't know if it meets local regulations and standards ( regardless of whether the actual certification has been done). Much easier to bypass like this than with something that has a internal PSU. Point being, anything above 50 V (maybe 30 VAC/60 VDC depending) would not be considered "low voltage" (or "extra low voltage") in some areas and need compliance with additional requirements or perhaps even the whole gamut of code.

 

[NTK]

As a consumer, you don't know if it meets local regulations and standards. Much easier to bypass like this than with something that has a internal PSU. Point being, anything above 50 V (maybe 60 VDC depending) would not be considered "low voltage" (or "extra low voltage") in some areas and need compliance with additional requirements or perhaps even the whole gamut of code.

For DC in EU, only when it is above 75 V then the Low Voltage Directive applies.

 

[misterdog]

As a consumer, you don't know

But as a social media commentator we can all speculate.

As with the debate about whether the horizontal cooling fins may be adequate enough.

 

[howard416]

For DC in EU, only when it is above 75 V then the Low Voltage Directive applies.

View attachment 453678

Fair point.

This does seem to be more of a North American thing, especially as the power supply already has a CE mark.

 

[board]

Yes it is wrong. There are almost no modern solid state amps with high enough output impedence to cause an audible change in the system frequency response due to load variance. Except perhaps in poorly designed "low feedback" "audiophile" "concoctions" But even then, probably not.

Ok. I know what I'm going to say now is very contentious to some people, but if we say for the sake of argument that there actually are audible differences between the three amps I mentioned, Arcam SR250, Naim NAP 200 + NAC 202, and the Nord integrated (or perhaps other amps), if the audible differences are not due to the frequency response being altered by the loudspeaker load what could the cause then be?
Could it still be an altered frequency response just caused by something else?

 

[stefanovesa]

Ok. I know what I'm going to say now is very contentious to some people, but if we say for the sake of argument that there actually are audible differences between the three amps I mentioned, Arcam SR250, Naim NAP 200 + NAC 202, and the Nord integrated (or perhaps other amps), if the audible differences are not due to the frequency response being altered by the loudspeaker load what could the cause then be?
Could it still be an altered frequency response just caused by something else?

my now mothballed NAIM NAIT XS3 integrated amplifier has quite unusual hgh output impedance, at least according https://www.hifinews.com/content/naim-nait-xs-3-integrated-amplifier-lab-report
Surely it sounded different from my Topping LA-90 discrete, bad design?

 

[antcollinet]

Ok. I know what I'm going to say now is very contentious to some people, but if we say for the sake of argument that there actually are audible differences between the three amps I mentioned, Arcam SR250, Naim NAP 200 + NAC 202, and the Nord integrated (or perhaps other amps), if the audible differences are not due to the frequency response being altered by the loudspeaker load what could the cause then be?
Could it still be an altered frequency response just caused by something else?

You'd have to validate that there really is an audible difference via properly controlled blind listening tests before it would be worth the effort discussing possible reasons for it.

Otherwise, by far the most likely cause is perceptive bias.

 

[babadono]

Otherwise, by far the most likely cause is perceptive bias.

Or level differences? Louder always mo betta

 

[mike70]

You'd have to validate that there really is an audible difference via properly controlled blind listening tests before it would be worth the effort discussing possible reasons for it.

Otherwise, by far the most likely cause is perceptive bias.

200% agree ... and, as @board said, assuming that differences exists (same room / speakers / positioning) ... if it is audible it is measurable.
So, checking the amplifiers measurements is the first step ... generally is where the "magic" ends.

 

[mike70]

Or level differences? Louder always mo betta

that's why @antcollinet said "properly controlled blind test" ... that includes gain levelling.

 

[misterdog]

You'd have to validate that there really is an audible difference via properly controlled blind listening tests before it would be worth the effort discussing possible reasons for it.

Is that not just 'preference' though.

I was weaned on boom/tizz loudspeakers for years, and at most live gigs during the 70's, 80's 90's, so one gets to assume that is how music should sound.
When you actually listen to organic, unamplified instruments, then comare them to your hi-fi system you realise that any addition to the distortion contained on the recording is just plain wrong.

Though your experience of 'live' performances with all the attendant distortion of the PA system and room can lead you to think that it should be thus.

I used to have a system with Celestion A class loudspeakers, (plenty of boom and tizz, AKA dynamics) I now have fully tricked out Quad 989ESL's with eventually B200 amps. I have two 12" subs to provide the lowest octave punch in the chest that is required when listening to dance/ electronica.

I know which my preference is and which is the closest sound to that of unamplified instruments.

Many 'don't like' low distortion playback systems stating that they lack dynamics and sound sterile, have they ever stood next to a drummer, saxophone,Cello or whatever player and compared the natural unamplified sound to their system?

I prefer my system to be ruled by the measurements, adding least distortion, after all that was Peter Walker's ambition for designing the Quad ESL's back in th e1950's.

Some say that all amplifiers 'sound' the same, but an amplifer is only as good as the loudspeakers/headphones that form the end of the chain.

Hi-fi, short for "high fidelity," refers to the reproduction of sound with a high degree of accuracy, aiming to be as close to the original sound as possible

No added distortion, is my take.

Others may have opinions that vary.

 

[board]

You'd have to validate that there really is an audible difference via properly controlled blind listening tests before it would be worth the effort discussing possible reasons for it.

Otherwise, by far the most likely cause is perceptive bias.

I don't mean this to sound confrontational, but that wasn't what I was asking. So if you would be so kind to read my message again and see if you could give me a proper answer I would be very grateful .
Thanks!

 

[Mort]

I don't mean this to sound confrontational, but that wasn't what I was asking. So if you would be so kind to read my message again and see if you could give me a proper answer I would be very grateful .
Thanks!

Your question asks to put aside the foundations of this board. No, no one is going to assume three amps sound different without testing them.

 

[board]

my now mothballed NAIM NAIT XS3 integrated amplifier has quite unusual hgh output impedance, at least according https://www.hifinews.com/content/naim-nait-xs-3-integrated-amplifier-lab-report
Surely it sounded different from my Topping LA-90 discrete, bad design?

So, I think this would support my hypothesis that the speaker load changes the frequency response. But according to the Hifi News' website it's only -1 dB at 20 kHz, which is most likely not audible with any music, if the rest of the frequency response is flat.

Here's a picture of the frequency response of another Naim amp with a dummy load. If we say for the sake of argument that the peaks and dips in the frequency response were a bit larger, and thereby more audible, that's exactly the kind of changes to the frequency response I would expect, thus making it sound a bit different than one that has a completely flat frequency response even with a speaker load.

 

[antcollinet]

I don't mean this to sound confrontational, but that wasn't what I was asking. So if you would be so kind to read my message again and see if you could give me a proper answer I would be very grateful .
Thanks!

No, I read your post. I gave you the most tecnically correct answer available to me.

I’m not going to pander to unverified fantasy.

Hope that helps.

 

[Mart68]

Ok. I know what I'm going to say now is very contentious to some people, but if we say for the sake of argument that there actually are audible differences between the three amps I mentioned, Arcam SR250, Naim NAP 200 + NAC 202, and the Nord integrated (or perhaps other amps), if the audible differences are not due to the frequency response being altered by the loudspeaker load what could the cause then be?
Could it still be an altered frequency response just caused by something else?

There's a theory that odd order harmonic distortion - along with the associated intermodulation distortion - can be audible, even if it is at low levels, at least for the higher orders (5th and upwards). I don't think any if those amps exhibit that, though.

 

[howard416]

I don't mean this to sound confrontational, but that wasn't what I was asking. So if you would be so kind to read my message again and see if you could give me a proper answer I would be very grateful .
Thanks!

Rather than postulate that amps sound different, you would be better served, I think, asking what types of distortion are audible (and under what circumstances).