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Ocean Way HR5 Studio Monitor Review

I didn't have an issue, it calculated ~109dB as the average in the 300-1000Hz region, thus the -6dB point is~103dB, which is ~43Hz.

Yep, the -6 dB point is 103 dB, and Loudspeaker Explorer agrees. But then Olive says:

LFX is the log 10 of the first frequency below 300 Hz in the sound power curve, that is -6 dB

Problem is, it all depends on how you define "first". In Loudspeaker Explorer I interpret "first" as "rightmost", as in, first below -6 dB while descending from 300 Hz. Remember, it's the very definition @bobbooo suggested we use. Specifically:

Capture.PNG


And if we go by that interpretation, then the -6 dB point is not at 43 Hz… it's at 189 Hz!

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I'm curious as to what formula you're using if it's not affected by this problem. I'm guessing your formula goes for the leftmost frequency that's above the 6 dB point, then use the previous frequency point right before that one?
 
One of these days it'll be good to start an open-letter bombardment campaign.

You seemingly can bombard these sorts of people all day and they seemingly return in more numbers than before you started. I'd much rather have these sorts of messages reach plain old consumers so they can see it pays to immunize themselves against these sorts of tactics. They should be made aware that some of these charlatans wouldn't have much qualms taking people out in their sleep if they can get away with it and it paid enough.. And hopefully with that in mind we can then begin to rid this industry of this nonsense that one would imagine would pass as commonplace in the days before electricity.

This is why it's perplexing to me seeing in the months prior periodically when random people on the internet try to downplay the efforts of what this site stands for.

I can't imagine where we'd be in the with desktop headphone Amps/DACs if this place didn't exist. I know I'd probably be trying to explain to people how "the auditory alacrity and insatiable exuberance that the earthshaking performance of X amp brings to your chain of audio pleasure" makes sense if you don't think about it too much and "let the soul of audiophilia guide you in your journey to enlightened bliss through the emotion embrace of X amp's particular colorations and unique character".
 
Sweetwater will push any product. On the back it says "California USA" but doesn't say 'Made in'?
 
"
You've mentioned that you hear a generational loss when copying or burning CDs.
Well, I've never been able to make a copy of a CD, from a CD to a CD, ever, that sounds like the original CD. About 15% of the sonics goes away, for me. If I have multiple CDs, I'll load them into the hard drive. Going to the hard drive and playing it back doesn't sound any worse than a copy of a CD. I've just never been able to make a transfer of a CD like that. But if you record directly to the hard drive, and then you're making CDs, it's a reasonable approach.
"

lol what is he talking about? its digital file.
salesman will say the craziest shit.
 
Yep, the -6 dB point is 103 dB, and Loudspeaker Explorer agrees. But then Olive says:



Problem is, it all depends on how you define "first". In Loudspeaker Explorer I interpret "first" as "rightmost", as in, first below -6 dB while descending from 300 Hz. Remember, it's the very definition @bobbooo suggested we use. Specifically:

View attachment 67921

And if we go by that interpretation, then the -6 dB point is not at 43 Hz… it's at 189 Hz!

View attachment 67920

I'm curious as to what formula you're using if it's not affected by this problem. I'm guessing your formula goes for the leftmost frequency that's above the 6 dB point, then use the previous frequency point right before that one?
I use MATCH, with the optional condition that it looks for the cell that is the largest value less than the target (the infimum, aka the Greatest Lower Bound).
if it starts from the highest and goes down, I get different results.
 
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Sweetwater will push any product. On the back it says "California USA" but doesn't say 'Made in'?
At least the woofer on the new one is made in Indonesia. We suspect the amps are icepower which are made in China. Judging by the resonances the cabinet was made in Santa's workshop.
 
"
You've mentioned that you hear a generational loss when copying or burning CDs.
Well, I've never been able to make a copy of a CD, from a CD to a CD, ever, that sounds like the original CD. About 15% of the sonics goes away, for me. If I have multiple CDs, I'll load them into the hard drive. Going to the hard drive and playing it back doesn't sound any worse than a copy of a CD. I've just never been able to make a transfer of a CD like that. But if you record directly to the hard drive, and then you're making CDs, it's a reasonable approach.
"

lol what is he talking about? its digital file.
salesman will say the craziest shit.

It's possible that some CD players don't read burned CD's well. However, if the CD is verified after the burn, it will rip it bit-perfect data back to a wav file. But who uses a CD player anymore? If he's playing back the digital file and hears a difference, he's full of BS.
 
I think we need a quick, updated refreshed on the various panthers. Sometimes the "stealing from me" panther seems worse than headless one...
That one is reserved for stuff that does nothing to audio. Headless products produce audio, just not well.
 
Sweetwater will push any product. On the back it says "California USA" but doesn't say 'Made in'?
I noticed that too. I suspect it is not manufactured in USA/CA, otherwise it would proudly say so.
 
By the way, I was shocked to see Loudspeaker Explorer compute an Olive preference rating of -1.0(!) for that speaker… turns out that score is wrong, the shape of the frequency response is confusing the LFX calculation:

View attachment 67895

Looks like I will have to tweak the formula in Loudspeaker Explorer to go no further than the leftmost crossing of the threshold… maybe @MZKM will face the same hilarious issue, depending on how its formula for selecting the LFX frequency works.
By the way, I was shocked to see Loudspeaker Explorer compute an Olive preference rating of -1.0(!) for that speaker… turns out that score is wrong, the shape of the frequency response is confusing the LFX calculation:

View attachment 67895

Looks like I will have to tweak the formula in Loudspeaker Explorer to go no further than the leftmost crossing of the threshold… maybe @MZKM will face the same hilarious issue, depending on how its formula for selecting the LFX frequency works.
A -1.0 rating? That is not preference, that is an Aversion rating of 1.0 ha ha.
 
Now the first question makes more sense, in reference to the target market: "professionals". I'd like to know who these professionals are that accept this low of a standard(presuming any exists). Any other industry, this sort of behavior would be laughed at (and I don't mean by the public and the consumers there, but I mean in enterprise/industry setting). Like imagine trying to sell a story of the power rating from a PSU unit. Or imagine when buying a PC or parts, Intel was to say "yeah it can overclock like crazy, 10Ghz on 10 cores, no problem, trust us, we've been building CPU's before you were born!

And then imagine a company putting in orders for these..

Do professionals in audio have any standards? It seem they're no better than us.. heck worse if stuff like this can even exist in the first place. At least here we can verify these claims. Who's verifying the claims of this speaker before Amir just did?

Perhaps these engineers and producers need to start hiring teens to work along side them, just to make sure they can cover the upper range of frequencies where it would be missed.

I have seen music producers using ATC monitors, the ones with low bass quantity, without doing EQ for them and claim they have good bass.

I have seen people using PMC monitors, the ones with elevated treble on-axis, on-axis. (Tho to be fair he is just an audiophile. The type that buys cables and stuff.)

On an semi-related note, I personally know of musicians who give no ****s about speakers nor know anything technical about them. Because when you are playing music, there is no such thing called accuracy or perfection. Unfortunately reproducing music is a totally different thing.
 
This is a very interesting review, @amirm.

Do you think the HR-5 is representative of the Ocean Way "sound" and all their products may test equally abominably?
 
That one is reserved for stuff that does nothing to audio. Headless products produce audio, just not well.

Imagine paying 5-digit to upgrade your system from a 305P and then going backwards instead tho.

Negative rating should be a thing.
 
I think we need a quick, updated refreshed on the various panthers. Sometimes the "stealing from me" panther seems worse than headless one...but I dont know where it ranks with the armless one? I think the happy panther is the only clear one these days. OH - is golf panther better than happy laying down panther? thx

I was thinking there should be one with his head up his ass...
 
This is a very interesting review, @amirm.

Do you think the HR-5 is representative of the Ocean Way "sound" and all their products may test equally abominably?
I have only casually heard them at shows and I only remember them playing loud. We will need to test more of their models to draw a full conclusion.
 
The pro world is infected as well.

This is just standard industry practice. Having informed consumers make rational choices would be dangerous.

The lack of measurements and difficulty of comparing in the flesh are the same as in the consumer space.
What's left is hearsay and evaluation by ear.

Also you don't need to mix on current gen perfect speakers to get on the charts. See Tony Maserati and his System 1200s/Studio100s or Warren Huart's 1032s, or Billie Eilish/Finneas and how the bulk of it was supposedly done at home on HS5s (oh the heresy!).

A Genelec-y non-romantic/cold/industrial approach (compared to the lone hero) can be harder to sell to some.

On the electronics side some seasoned engineers still yearn for some even more transparent-er AD because their current one has jitter at -130dB and that is just absolutely hellish and unworkable.
And they tell you about their new monitoring controller with a claimed extra 0.5dB dynamic range way outside the audible range they really needed because it now gives them a dramatically better insight into reverb tails.
(But then it all goes through a 30 year old unserviced Bryston with something like -70dB THDN to NS10s placed sideways on the meter bridge)

People starting out are pushed to upgrade entry interfaces before getting any acoustics done, etc.

Industry interests, client/AnR retention/expectations, psychoacoustics, lack of education, endless misinformation from youtube sellouts, etc.

I believe broadcast/film is less susceptible to snake oilery.
 
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@TulseLuper is on the money. LOL. So they have effectively unlimited DSP and that's the response they ended up with.

No speaker is quite so messed up as a bad horn. Just brutal. I guess people really want the look of a horn loaded midrange speaker regardless of whether or not it provides the same output, or any positive performance attributes for that matter.
 
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