Neumann KH420 vs Revel PerformaBe F228be or F328be

[richard12511]

2L uses Genelec in their studio so no wonder it sounds good
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Wonder what the total cost was? 11x8351b, 7xW371a, 1x7380, and 1x8320?

 

[tifune]

IME, it doesn't start beating stereo until you get to 9 channels and Auro3D. The soundstage and image stability is so much more stable with Auro3D than it is with stereo, and the image is 99% as tight. Unfortunately, Auro2D puts the wrong type of sounds in the rear and side channels. I prefer stereo over Auro2D or anything under Auro3D. It annoys me that it takes 9.1(LCR + SL + SR + 4H) to reach a good multichannel upmixer. Why is Auro2D not the same algorithm, but scaled down???

Just curious, which heights do you use? Surround or rear? Obviously cost becomes a much bigger factor when you're talking about 9 speakers vs. 2 so I tend to aim for maximum flexibility by using rear height. But, of course I'm always wondering if Auro3D would have a marked improvement with the suggested surround height.

 

[Chromatischism]

Just curious, which heights do you use? Surround or rear? Obviously cost becomes a much bigger factor when you're talking about 9 speakers vs. 2 so I tend to aim for maximum flexibility by using rear height. But, of course I'm always wondering if Auro3D would have a marked improvement with the suggested surround height.

Surround height doesn't work with Atmos, so that limits its usefulness.

I think if your surround speakers and height/top speakers are positioned well, objects can image in between them.

 

[Pearljam5000]

KH420 review

 

[dshreter]

For those that don’t have professional requirements, I often wonder why some ASR posters have such high SPL requirements. Why would a system need to be run at levels that cause heating damage? For this reviewer it seems clear he would have been satisfied by KH 310

KH420 review

 

[Frgirard]

For those that don’t have professional requirements, I often wonder why some ASR posters have such high SPL requirements. Why would a system need to be run at levels that cause heating damage? For this reviewer it seems clear he would have been satisfied by KH 310

A KH310 with the woofer at 95 cm from the floor is the generation of floor cancelation in the bass Frequencies.
A KH310 sealed speaker with his little volume has an artificial bass strongly equalized.
A KH310 in a room with an edt around 0, 280 with a distance of 2.5 m is the clipping of the woofer.
A KH310 with is little woofer and volume is the distortion.
Why a kh420 is a good choice.

In an untreated room, it's an another story but a waste of money.

 

[dfuller]

For those that don’t have professional requirements, I often wonder why some ASR posters have such high SPL requirements. Why would a system need to be run at levels that cause heating damage? For this reviewer it seems clear he would have been satisfied by KH 310

The KH310 is heavily SPL limited in low frequencies. At 86dB it crosses 3% THD at around 45hz. And, considering bass is often 10-20dB louder than midrange, that's... not exactly a lot of headroom.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

I wonder why the reviewer uses KH420 with KH750 subs and how significant the difference between 420+750 and 310+750 is... KH810 seems more fitting if SPL is the reason to prefer 420 over 310. I´m too lazy to look at THD graphs, though.

 

[dshreter]

The KH310 is heavily SPL limited in low frequencies. At 86dB it crosses 3% THD at around 45hz. And, considering bass is often 10-20dB louder than midrange, that's... not exactly a lot of headroom.

You’re certainly right. My assumption which could be faulty is that both monitors should be used with subs in most cases if planning a system rationally.

 

[dfuller]

I wonder why the reviewer uses KH420 with KH750 subs and how significant the difference between 420+750 and 310+750 is... KH810 seems more fitting if SPL is the reason to prefer 420 over 310. I´m too lazy to look at THD graphs, though.

Courtesy of www.soundandrecording.de

Looks like the 420 has 6dB or so more on tap at low frequencies, which is quite a bit. And you can see it starts increasing in level again below about 45hz, because of the port.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Courtesy of www.soundandrecording.de

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Looks like the 420 has 6dB or so more on tap at low frequencies, which is quite a bit. And you can see it starts increasing in level again below about 45hz, because of the port.

Ok, but if you couple it with this sub, i wonder how much the better THD between 100 and 400Hz is worth? I you pay extra to reach 6dB more in this area, it seems odd to be limited so much by the sub below 100Hz. Or am i wrong?

 

[dfuller]

Ok, but if you couple it with this sub, i wonder how much the better THD between 100 and 400Hz is worth? I you pay extra to reach 6dB more in this area, it seems odd to be limited so much by the sub below 100Hz. Or am i wrong?

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The KH750 is a bizarre choice for the KH420, I agree.

 

[hege]

Did you watch the video? He needs reference level SPL, which the 310 did not provide. He mixes Atmos, the subs are dedicated for LFE channel (but mentioned using them also together for stereo listening). They obviously get the job done, and that's it.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Did you watch the video? He needs reference level SPL, which the 310 did not provide. He mixes Atmos, the subs are dedicated for LFE (but mentioned using them also together for stereo listening). They obviously get the job done, and that's it.

Yes, but that´s exactly what i find puzzling. If the KH310 + 750 are not sufficient, how can KH420 + 750 be?
But I guess you are right and the SPL limit has been reached only in the Atmos context. That would explain it indeed.

 

[hege]

If the KH310 + 750 are not sufficient, how can KH420 + 750 be?

Because the 750 are dedicated for LFE in Atmos. They are not extending/crossed over to the mains in that configuration!

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Because the 750 are dedicated for LFE in Atmos. They are not extending the mains in that configuration!

Understood. That´s why i wrote you were right and that would explain it.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I wonder if the KH310 + a sub=90% of KH420 if so that would be great

 

[Frgirard]

I wonder if the KH310 + a sub=90% of KH420 if so that would be great

No. I used k+h o300 +KH810.
The two 10" of the kh420 smooth the problems under 80Hz. The sub can not do that.

Two 10" is +6db due to the coupling and a decrease of the distortion.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

No. I used k+h o300 +KH810.
The two 10" of the kh420 smooth the problems under 80Hz. The sub can not do that.

Two 10" is +6db due to the coupling and a decrease of the distortion.

KH310 is more capable below 100Hz than o300 though:

O300 vs KH310 (Colors inverted)

 

[jackmw]

Also, AFAIK, using them connected to the KH 750 DSP is the only way as of now to use Neumann's Automatic Monitor Alignment system with the KH 420