Neumann KH120A or Genelec 8030C?

[Pio2001]

The KH120A were just too bright sounding, and very unforgiving on masters that had high excessive high frequency distortion. (Which is a lot of masters).

What was the treble setting on the back of the speaker ? Since I listen in a untreated room, I followed Neumann's user manual and set the treble trim to -1. It sounds correct to me. And after a long time with them, I find them to by a little shy on the treble side.
My hearing stops at 13.5 kHz.

To enjoy low quality recordings it is not highly recommended to use these speakers I think.

Here too, my experience is the opposite. I have never enjoyed so much any kind of recordings than with the KH-120. From bootlegs recorded with a smartphone to hyper-compressed modern pop music, nothing sounds horrible. It's like we can hear perfectly what kind of recording it is, but it's just there and doesn't matter as far as music is concerned, while with other, much less balanced speakers, there are always some kind of recordings that sound horrible.
Amateur recordings made at home even have a kind of authenticity when listened to with the KH-120. It's like "oh listen ! Someone is playing music in our kitchen !
-No it's just a Youtube video playing in the speakers !"

 

[maty]

What loudspeakers did you have before?

 

[Deavesc]

Update: I received my pair of 8030C with their matching table stands, replacing the Yamaha HS7s. For now, my impressions are:
* Build quality is as good as I expected it to be.
* Incredible bass for the size, really. Well, more like incredible external volume compared to the woofer size.
* LOUD. I'm at the minimum input sensitivity and still had to reduce the level a lot on my Audient iD4.
* Top end does seem clearer, but that could be my imagination (e.g. seeing the metal tweeter through the grills).
* I realize that the HS7 is quite good, now that I have a "benchmark" to compare.

Next is setting up drc-fir/brutefir with my ECM8000; for now, I just have the -4 dB bass switch engaged for the back wall.

Ahhh! I am in the exact same situation as you now and I simply cannot decide between these 2 monitors!!! I am so glad to see you reply to this very recently as I wanted to ask what exactly ended up pushing you towards the Genelecs in the end? I am starting work in game audio production and audio post for video and really need an upgrade soon (Currently on 6 year old M-Audio BX5s).

They are both almost exactly the same price in the UK so it's really difficult to choose!

 

[q3cpma]

Ahhh! I am in the exact same situation as you now and I simply cannot decide between these 2 monitors!!! I am so glad to see you reply to this very recently as I wanted to ask what exactly ended up pushing you towards the Genelecs in the end? I am starting work in game audio production and audio post for video and really need an upgrade soon (Currently on 6 year old M-Audio BX5s).

They are both almost exactly the same price in the UK so it's really difficult to choose!

You can see in the OP my rationals and the following post by @thewas_ apparently showing a smoother power response. Genelec's reputation also made me choose in their favour, they have an old background in PA and reliability is king with them: long warranty extension, still use toroïdal transformers in their newer models and they pioneered the cast aluminium enclosure, as far as I know. I was also drawn to their history of having introduced the bi-amplification and the modern waveguide to the market in 1979, which continued down the years with increasing R&D.
Really, now that I know a bit more, the KH120A has some upsides too: the specs quote a distorsion equal to the 8030C at 95 dB SPL instead of 85! The on-axis may be a bit more linear too (not that it really matters when you're as good as the 8030C).

Important, the Neumann accessories make Genelec look cheap (you don't write this everyday): the table stands are 160€/pc when Genelec is 77€ and way cooler.

 

[Ilkless]

You can see in the OP my rationals and the following post by @thewas_ apparently showing a smoother power response. Genelec's reputation also made me choose in their favour, they have an old background in PA and reliability is king with them: long warranty extension, still use toroïdal transformers in their newer models and they pioneered the cast aluminium enclosure, as far as I know. I was also drawn to their history of having introduced the bi-amplification and the modern waveguide to the market in 1979, which continued down the years with increasing R&D.
Really, now that I know a bit more, the KH120A has some upsides too: the specs quote a distorsion equal to the 8030C at 95 dB SPL instead of 85! The on-axis may be a bit more linear too (not that it really matters when you're as good as the 8030C).

Important, the Neumann accessories make Genelec look cheap (you don't write this everyday): the table stands are 160€/pc when Genelec is 77€ and way cooler.

https://heissmann-acoustics.de/en/dxt-mon-vs-neumann-kh-120a/

Heissmann did pretty high-resolution gated measurements of the KH120A (as well as his own DIY speakers). Seeing as he has enough data for horizontal and vertical polars, it should be enough to make a crude spinorama (but excludes diagonal angles) to compare with the Genelec.

 

[q3cpma]

https://heissmann-acoustics.de/en/dxt-mon-vs-neumann-kh-120a/

Heissmann did pretty high-resolution gated measurements of the KH120A (as well as his own DIY speakers). Seeing as he has enough data for horizontal and vertical polars, it should be enough to make a crude spinorama (but excludes diagonal angles) to compare with the Genelec.

Well, since that graph is from Klippel themselves, I'm inclined to believe it (though I'd like amir to test any of those two monitors).

 

[Ilkless]

Well, since that graph is from Klippel themselves, I'm inclined to believe it (though I'd like amir to test any of those two monitors).

Yeah, the shape actually reminds me of the LSR705p power response, a sudden kink from downward sloping due to narrowing midwoofer directivity to pretty much constant directivity on the tweeter. It looks bad, I think, partly because it is not overlaid with the on-axis, listening window and early reflections curve.

 

[q3cpma]

Ahhh! I am in the exact same situation as you now and I simply cannot decide between these 2 monitors!!! I am so glad to see you reply to this very recently as I wanted to ask what exactly ended up pushing you towards the Genelecs in the end? I am starting work in game audio production and audio post for video and really need an upgrade soon (Currently on 6 year old M-Audio BX5s).

They are both almost exactly the same price in the UK so it's really difficult to choose!

Another thing that may help you: unlike the 8030C, the KH120A doesn't have automatic standby. Add to that that it's using class AB amps, and you'll probably have to reach behind to shut it down every night.

 

[matt3421]

Another option would be to get the KH 80 DSP as the performance is almost identical to the KH 120 except for the bass extension.

And spend the remaining money on a cheap subwoofer. Otherwise I would get the 8030C

 

[Vintage57]

Another thing that may help you: unless the 8030C, the KH120A doesn't have automatic standby. Add to that that it's using class AB amps, and you'll probably have to reach behind to shut it down every night.

Why would you shut it down?

 

[Deavesc]

Another thing that may help you: unless the 8030C, the KH120A doesn't have automatic standby. Add to that that it's using class AB amps, and you'll probably have to reach behind to shut it down every night.

Thank you for this information. I was doing some more research and saw the very similar 8330A by Genelec and started comparing it to the 8030C. It is an increased price tag but you do get the GLM kit with it. Would this be worth the price increase or am I better off just sticking to the 8030C? Thanks for any info and thanks for still replying to this thread!

 

[q3cpma]

Why would you shut it down?

To save power? It is specced at 20W idle. And to avoid the nasty sound my Audient makes when powering on, but I'll probably remedy to that with a Babyface one day.

 

[q3cpma]

Thank you for this information. I was doing some more research and saw the very similar 8330A by Genelec and started comparing it to the 8030C. It is an increased price tag but you do get the GLM kit with it. Would this be worth the price increase or am I better off just sticking to the 8030C? Thanks for any info and thanks for still replying to this thread!

I'm pretty sure you must buy the GLM thing separately. Honestly, if you use a compatible OS and don't have any problem with proprietary DSP solutions, the 8330A + GLM kit augmented later by a 7350A is an ideal setup.

 

[q3cpma]

Another option would be to get the KH 80 DSP as the performance is almost identical to the KH 120 except for the bass extension.
View attachment 60755

And spend the remaining money on a cheap subwoofer. Otherwise I would get the 8030C

You're quite right, but I'd mention the fact that the Neumann control application is, ridiculously, an iOS exclusive. Some QC problems with the power saving feature were also found by some people.

 

[Deavesc]

I'm pretty sure you must buy the GLM thing separately. Honestly, if you use a compatible OS and don't have any problem with proprietary DSP solutions, the 8330A + GLM kit augmented later by a 7350A is an ideal setup.

Yeah I did see that. I'd probably upgrade bit by bit over time, hopefully get the 8330A's + GLM, and get the Sub after some more room treatment later down the line.

Every time I am near to making a decision a new potential choice comes up haha. Are you thinking of using a sub with your 8030Cs? That is if you aren't already.

 

[q3cpma]

Yeah I did see that. I'd probably upgrade bit by bit over time, hopefully get the 8330A's + GLM, and get the Sub after some more room treatment later down the line.

Every time I am near to making a decision a new potential choice comes up haha. Are you thinking of using a sub with your 8030Cs? That is if you aren't already.

I am indeed thinking about a sub but I do live in an appartment (and am not Cresus, right now). Probably the 7050C.

 

[Vintage57]

To save power? It is specced at 20W idle. And to avoid the nasty sound my Audient makes when powering on, but I'll probably remedy to that with a Babyface one day.

There is very little to gain with respect to power saving.

My experience is that leaving active speakers on idle consumes very little and the components don’t heat cycle. I’m of course speaking to daily use. Just as a light bulb will last much longer if you just turn it on and LEAVE it on, so will your audio gear. I had my last pair on for the best part of 16 years without a fault. YMMV

 

[q3cpma]

There is very little to gain with respect to power saving.

My experience is that leaving active speakers on idle consumes very little and the components don’t heat cycle. I’m of course speaking to daily use. Just as a light bulb will last much longer if you just turn it on and LEAVE it on, so will your audio gear. I had my last pair on for the best part of 16 years without a fault. YMMV

Let's say that in my family, we're taught not to waste anything by neglect or laziness, even if it's little. 20 W idle doesn't seem that low to me; the 8030C at 3 W could have foregone this mechanism, but it was probably kept from their AB days.
You have KH420s, right? They're 120 W idle per pair.

 

[Vintage57]

I have and use a remote car starter as well.

 

[Deavesc]

I am indeed thinking about a sub but I do live in an appartment (and am not Cresus, right now). Probably the 7050C.

Thanks, I've decided to get the 8030C, and perhaps get a calibration mic to use with Sonarworks to help get them suited to my room. The 8330's with the GLM kit was just too expensive for me, I know I probably won't get as good results as the GLM software, but i think it would be minimal gains for a lot of extra money.