Neumann KH120 II Monitor Review

[TA21]

I'll use it for music listening (not mixing), would that be ok? (I don't think I'd go over 90db)

Thanks a lot, I just wanted to make sure cause with these professional monitors I am not always sure when the comments refer to sound mixing/editing and when they refer to hifi listening

I recently tried using my Neumann KH120 II speakers in my hi-fi system. I have higher-tier, floorstanding speakers in my hi-fi system, so the KH120 II are not going to replace those. But I wanted to try and see how these studio monitors sounded in a hi-fi system context. The results will be obvious to some, but I wanted to post this for people who are considering getting studio monitors for a hi-fi system.

I normally use the KH120 II at my work desk, where my listening position is slightly under one meter away (about 3 feet). In that near field set-up, the KH120 II have a certain purity of sound that I really like for critical listening. Very neutral frequency response. In this context, you hear the speakers directly with little influence from the room (except you may need to adjust the bass and low-mids, to deal with the back wall or desk reflections).

My hi-fi system is in a medium sized room where the listening position is about 2.75 meters away (about 9 feet). In this context, the room now strongly affects the speakers and their frequency response. The KH120 II became more like any other hi-fi bookshelf speakers, with their wonky frequency ups and downs. I also had to turn up the speakers a bit more than at my desk, to get the same volume at the farther listening position. So the speakers do not sound as effortless as they do at my desk. In this context, the speakers start to have a slightly "boxy" quality that most small, hi-fi bookshelf speakers have. By that, I mean you can more sense the sound is coming from speakers, rather than the total disappearing act that larger floorstanding speakers do. That purity I really liked about these speakers, in my desk set-up, went away.

I do not mean to say the KH120 II speakers were bad. I mean that these speakers become like other small, hi-fi bookshelf speakers, when you put them in a hi-fi system for listening at a farther distance. I do not believe any monitor or bookshelf speakers can do that purity of sound in a near field setting, in a farther distance setting. It is just a totally different listening environment, where you start to hear the effect of the room as much or more than the speakers.

If you are looking to use the KH120 II in a hi-fi system, I would say, be aware that you are not going to get all the advantages I might praise about these speakers in a near field setting. You may want to consider hi-fi speakers, as they may be better designed for certain things that audiophiles love, like wide soundstage and imaging, which are not the top objectives of studio monitor speakers. You may think neutral frequency response is what you want, because it's accurate, but you may find that too "clinical" and less enjoyable for pleasure listening. You have to listen to as many speakers as you can to learn the differences and develop your tastes, or be prepared to cycle through owning different speakers to learn from trial-and-error. However, your room is a huge factor in how good your hi-fi system sounds. If you are a beginner audiophile, you may not be willing to do 90% of what it takes to set up your room for optimal sound, e.g., you will set up your speakers for decor, and not use heavy stands, not pull your speakers feet away from the walls, not get rid of the TV between your speakers, not add 5 inch thick bass traps, etc. In that case, you will not be getting anywhere near the best from from your speakers, and your research may be focusing on things that seem important in a vacuum, but do not translate into a meaningful difference in your home set-up.

 

[Pritaudio]

How big is the room.
Was the volume sufficient without distorting.
Also, have you tried a sub for low pass filter.

Have you considered the kh150 as ‘filling the room’.

 

[Matias]

I do not believe any monitor or bookshelf speakers can do that purity of sound in a near field setting, in a farther distance setting. It is just a totally different listening environment, where you start to hear the effect of the room as much or more than the speakers.

As an owner of the KH 120 II I agree to your nearfield description, but I have not tested it in my medium sized 21 m² dedicated listening room. But I can answer for the quote above that the Sointuva AWG is an exception to the rule, and it's one hell of a speaker in this hi-fi listening room context ~2.8m away from the listening position. Just perfect. Those Purifi woofers and passive radiators make all the difference in what to expect from a bookshelf speaker. This coming from 3 way towers with 10" woofers and PRs (Thiel CS3.7).

 

[HQY]

for music listening purpose, i use my 120ii with dual 750 subs in a 23m2 high-roof room. the listening distance around 2-meter. im happy with the result. but i agree that pair of 150 could be better.

 

[Pritaudio]

for music listening purpose, i use my 120ii with dual 750 subs in a 23m2 high-roof room. the listening distance around 2-meter. im happy with the result. but i agree that pair of 150 could be better.

Your setup should theoretically be better than kh150 with one sub, assuming ma1 does 2 subs.
You get full range per channel, and loadtaken off kh120 woofers.

 

[HQY]

Your setup should theoretically be better than kh150 with one sub, assuming ma1 does 2 subs.
You get full range per channel, and loadtaken off kh120 woofers.

ma1 works fine with 2 subs. according to neumann, 1 sub is good enough for 120 and 2 subs are good for pair of 150 or 310.
i would think this setup can be comparable to small to mid size floor standing speakers and could be even better in low frequencies' performance.

 

[TA21]

How big is the room.
Was the volume sufficient without distorting.
Also, have you tried a sub for low pass filter.

Have you considered the kh150 as ‘filling the room’.

My room, with my hi-fi system, is about 25 square meters size. In that space, I listened to my KH120 II at about 70-75dB peak. (I do not listen to my stereo that loud. I find with a good system, I can get the details, clarity and low-end I crave at moderate volumes, whereas on a lesser system, I constantly want to turn up the volume to get "more".)

The KH120 II do not distort in that space. They are fine in that space. I meant they do not come across as effortless, compared to when I use them at my desk, where I use less power because of the closer listening distance. I do think the KH 150 would be even better for the space. Adding a subwoofer would take stress off the monitors' woofers, and also be even better for the space. However, I think once you start moving from the KH 120 up into the price range of the KH 150 + sub ($5,250 versus $2,000 in the US), you should consider other speakers in that higher price range as options to compare against, rather than the KH 120 II as the benchmark.

I was interested in seeing how the KH120 II would sound, in tonality and frequency response, in a different environment than at my desk. In the future, I may try the Neumann's room correction DSP and see how that sounds in that space. But I was not looking to use the KH 120 II or KH 150 in my main hi-fi system: I already have floorstanding speakers in my main hi-fi system which are much higher-tier than either.

 

[athlon7750]

Has anyone ever noticed one of the speakers dropping a SPDIF connection for a second or two when daisy chained?

I do. It can happen multiple times with a few seconds' pause between drops during a song. It's usually fixed by stopping and resuming playback.

 

[feitaishi]

I do. It can happen multiple times with a few seconds' pause between drops during a song. It's usually fixed by stopping and resuming playback.

What interface are you using?

 

[boxerfan88]

But I was not looking to use the KH 120 II or KH 150 in my main hi-fi system: I already have floorstanding speakers in my main hi-fi system which are much higher-tier than either.

If you don't mind sharing ... what speaker/system setup is in your main hifi system?

 

[Pearljam5000]

My room, with my hi-fi system, is about 25 square meters size. In that space, I listened to my KH120 II at about 70-75dB peak. (I do not listen to my stereo that loud. I find with a good system, I can get the details, clarity and low-end I crave at moderate volumes, whereas on a lesser system, I constantly want to turn up the volume to get "more".)

The KH120 II do not distort in that space. They are fine in that space. I meant they do not come across as effortless, compared to when I use them at my desk, where I use less power because of the closer listening distance. I do think the KH 150 would be even better for the space. Adding a subwoofer would take stress off the monitors' woofers, and also be even better for the space. However, I think once you start moving from the KH 120 up into the price range of the KH 150 + sub ($5,250 versus $2,000 in the US), you should consider other speakers in that higher price range as options to compare against, rather than the KH 120 II as the benchmark.

I was interested in seeing how the KH120 II would sound, in tonality and frequency response, in a different environment than at my desk. In the future, I may try the Neumann's room correction DSP and see how that sounds in that space. But I was not looking to use the KH 120 II or KH 150 in my main hi-fi system: I already have floorstanding speakers in my main hi-fi system which are much higher-tier than either.

If the KH120 and KH150 measure perfectly
How could any speaker be higher tier than them ?

 

[Ktacos]

I do not mean to say the KH120 II speakers were bad. I mean that these speakers become like other small, hi-fi bookshelf speakers, when you put them in a hi-fi system for listening at a farther distance. I do not believe any monitor or bookshelf speakers can do that purity of sound in a near field setting, in a farther distance setting

I think they can, but it's tough for a 5" woofer. I find most of the 6" monitors I've tried don't have a problem with performing well in both near and say mid field, but they do always been a shelf filter, for me 300hz and down to fill up the space.

 

[Ron Texas]

If the KH120 and KH150 measure perfectly
How could any speaker be higher tier than them ?

Something with more bass extension perhaps? What does perfect mean in this context?

 

[athlon7750]

What interface are you using?

RME UCX II.

 

[TA21]

If the KH120 and KH150 measure perfectly
How could any speaker be higher tier than them ?

Something with more bass extension perhaps? What does perfect mean in this context?

I think Pearljam5000 was joking about higher tier. But if you look at amirm's measurements of the KH120 II and KH150, they each have an incredible flat frequency response that look like someone drew the frequency response measurements with a ruler. Even down to almost 50Hz for the KH 120 II. As amirm says in the first post of this thread, "... this is the level of flatness we get out of electronics, not something electromechanical!"

My post above, about trying the KH 120 II in a medium sized room at 2.75 meters distance listening position, was getting at how the room itself starts interferes with that ruler-straight line, compared to listening to the speakers near field at one meter distance.

With higher tier speakers (that cost multiple times more), you can get improvements like much more detail, and better soundstage and imaging capabilities. But it is unfair to compare speakers at vastly different price points, as people are usually choosing among speakers within a certain budget range.

 

[formdissolve]

RME UCX II.

This happened with my RME ADI-2 Pro. It got annoying enough that I sold the speakers (only part of the reason, the other part is that they were too small for my room).

 

[teashea]

Yes. Confirmed by neumann on private chat and also in a question in theirs YouTube Channel. They said in less than a year is releasing the new KH310II (with dsp and all the improvements on the new KH120 and KH150)

Just to note this did not happen.....

 

[teashea]

EQ is equalization, i.e. making response more linear. Limiting is a different concept.

Correct. It is not EQ.

 

[teashea]

Just a little update on the 120 II's in my studio. All LP's are 1 to 1.2 meters. The family sound of the Neumann monitors (and headphones) is very helpful to me, especially because of the dispersed workstation system I prefer. The important thing for me remains uncolored sound so that I can tell what the source really sounds like. To me the KH120 II's sound just as good as the KH 150's in my very nearfield use situations. (I just ordered another pair of KH 120 II's today from Sweetwater - the seventh pair of Neumann monitors in the studio). I am so impressed with the Neumann monitors. I cannot find anything I do not like about them.

 

[teashea]

Do

I find people who claim such things either have more money than sense or are trying to sell you something. Lol. My pet peeve is people claiming they can hear a difference after burn in...

Snakes have to sell their oil somewhere.