Need help with my quest to a cheap but good sounding class d amp - TPA3255?

[Ralferator]

Hi guys,

i have a very strange plan and hope you guys can help me.

I am new in this forum but was watching it for quite some time, seeing the reviews and threads about Class D amplilfiers. I started some years ago with Class D amplifiers and liked them a lot - i had the Lepai 2020, the SMSL SA-50 and the SMSL SA-98 before. Recently i sold everything, moved from germany to brazil and now that we are about to buy a house i need an amplifier again. Here most Hifi is extremely expensive, amplifiers cost almost double the price than they cost in germany, while the income is half, so it's about 4 times as much to spend.

What is surprisingly cheap is some speakers, like the JBL Stage A130 that are afordable. I heard good things about them and might get them. They are bookshelf speakers with a 5" woofer. But maybe i am even going to get floorstanders, it's not so sure yet. I am also planning on probably using the bass box for my E-Bass as the subwoofer for the living room too, because the box is tuned pretty low and capable for subwoofer use. So the best thing would be an amplifier with a subwoofer output. If it's not possible i could still connect the subwoofer amp with speaker cables - the module has high power inputs.
I was planning on getting a Stereo Amp with Bluetooth (because we use Bluetooth a lot) or an AVR-Receiver with Audyssey, but prices are way too high and money is tight. So my only chance getting a decent Amp might be ordering a Class D Amp from China.

Now after reading all the newer threads it seems like i would be best with a TPA3255, like the Aiyima A07 (with Bluetooth) or BRZHifi aka Breeze Audio (i like the Bass and Treble knob) or the TPA3050 from 3eAudio. But it gets more complicated: For any package to brazil that's higher in value (product+delivery) than 50$ i have to pay an import tax of 60%!!! I would even pay that tax if there is no other way, because Amplifiers are so expensive here, but i would prefer to not pay it.

So summarized:
- my plan is to find the best possible amp for me that sounds good, has enough power, has bass and treble knobs (preferably but not necessarily), has bluetooth (preferably but not necessarily), has a subwoofer out (preferably but not necessarily)
- costs only up to 50$ per package (so it probably makes sense to buy the power adapter seperately in a seperate package).
- Best would be a finished amp, but if it's not possible another way i could try to solder one together, if i knew all the parts i need.
- If bluetooth is not included - what bluetooth receiver can you recommend?

Plan B:
- Does anybody know if sellers from Aliexpress are willing to write a lower value on packages? Did you make any experiences with that? Then i could maybe get a TPA3255 after all.

Should i get an amp with a TPA3116 or TPA3250, TAS5630 or TDA7498E? If yes, which one? Which power supply? Price can alltogether be as high as up to 150-200 dollars (still half of what the cheapest stereo amp here costs. I just would not really want to pay 60% Tax.

What are your ideas? I am very thankful for any help!

 

[TimW]

I have owned a few of the Allo Volt+ amps. Allo did a great job of optimizing the performance of the TPA3118 chip and they use higher quality parts than the cheapest Chinese boards. This one doesn't come with a case but it is under your $50 limit and has all of the connectors and a volume knob so it will work fine outside of a case. You can order a good power supply for under $50 seperately, and a bluetooth receiver too. I think piecing together parts like this is the only way to get decent performance and quality while avoiding that 60% import tax.

 

[TimW]

This Nobsound power supply looks promising. It has enough juice to power the Allo Volt+ to its limits.

 

[Ralferator]

I have owned a few of the Allo Volt+ amps. Allo did a great job of optimizing the performance of the TPA3118 chip and they use higher quality parts than the cheapest Chinese boards. This one doesn't come with a case but it is under your $50 limit and has all of the connectors and a volume knob so it will work fine outside of a case. You can order a good power supply for under $50 seperately, and a bluetooth receiver too. I think piecing together parts like this is the only way to get decent performance and quality while avoiding that 60% import tax.

Thank you very much for this idea! I just visited the website. It seems like delivery would be $27.50. The 60% comes on top of value of the product + delivery costs, so i would still have to pay the tax. So sadly this would not work. That power supply looks good - i will bookmark it.

What about something like this?
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/33055314215.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000060.1.47f94c96txQtCG&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller&scm=1007.13339.169870.0&scm_id=1007.13339.169870.0&scm-url=1007.13339.169870.0&pvid=5769957b-046a-4381-89a9-df3df2f29041&_t=gps-idcDetailBottomMoreThisSeller,scm-url:1007.13339.169870.0,pvid:5769957b-046a-4381-89a9-df3df2f29041,tpp_buckets:668#0#131923#27_668#808#3772#57_668#888#3325#16_668#2846#8112#575_668#2717#7566#864_668#1000022185#1000069217#0_668#3468#15609#299
Or this?
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/3301...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_
Or this?
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

Do you think any of these could sound good?

 

[TimW]

I own some stuff sold under the AIYIMA brand but I think their products are hit or miss. @Toku seems to have a lot of experience with their various amps and may be able to recommend one to you.

I have three of these Volt+ amps because I had a project planned for them, but I don't plan to follow through with that now. If you pay for shipping I would be happy to send you one.

 

[Ralferator]

I own some stuff sold under the AIYIMA brand but I think their products are hit or miss. @Toku seems to have a lot of experience with their various amps and may be able to recommend one to you.

I have three of these Volt+ amps because I had a project planned for them, but I don't plan to follow through with that now. If you pay for shipping I would be happy to send you one.

Thank you very much! I would like it more to have an amplifier with a case. But this Volt+ amp is really interesting. How much would you want for the amp? And how much would the delivery be to Curitiba, Brazil? Do you use it with a 19V power supply or a 24V? What do you think how much power i would get out of it and do you think it would be good enough to power two bookshelf speakers (86 db/1W) in a living room with 25-30 qm? (no extreme high listening levels)

 

[TimW]

One of my three amps is this version with a stepped attenuator in a case. I would prefer to keep that one and give away the one without a case.
I have used them with both 19V and 24V power supplies, either work just fine. It is not a super powerful but I have used them with similarly inefficient bookshelf speakers at loud volumes without issue. I will just give it to you if you pay for shipping. Shipping looks like it could be very expensive though, what is your zip code?

 

[Ralferator]

One of my three amps is this version with a stepped attenuator in a case. I would prefer to keep that one and give away the one without a case.
I have used them with both 19V and 24V power supplies, either work just fine. It is not a super powerful but I have used them with similarly inefficient bookshelf speakers at loud volumes without issue. I will just give it to you if you pay for shipping. Shipping looks like it could be very expensive though, what is your zip code?

Yes of course i would pay the shipping. It's 80530-050

 

[TimW]

Looks like it's going to cost $35.35 to ship a small package with USPS. If you decide you want to go this route PM me.

 

[Ralferator]

Looks like it's going to cost $35.35 to ship a small package with USPS. If you decide you want to go this route PM me.

Hmm, i will think about it, thank you for your offer! I am just wondering if the power will be enough. That's why i thought about the TPA3255

 

[Ralferator]

Ok, so i talked to some sellers on Aliexpress and they can write a lower price on the package. I really like this amp, because everything is included and it has Bass- Treble, and even a Mid-Knob. I think it makes sense to have them. Do you think these Knobs have a bad influence on the sound? Did anybody try this amp? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001192285954.html It gets sold as Nobsound or BRZHifi https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

Or should i better get the Aiyima A07? Or would you recommend the 3eAudio TP3250 amp instead. I like that it has a DSP but it seems like i could not program it without extra hardware, right? Also it has lower power. What do you recommend? Does that 3eAudio sound even nicer than the Aiyima or the BRZHifi? Any experiences?

Or better get the Allo Volt+ from Tim? The room will have 25-30 qm and the speakers will be the JBL Stage A130 probably, maybe the JBL Stage A180

 

[TimW]

That Nobsound TPA3255 looks pretty nice inside and out. The thing that really matters is how it performs though, and you can't tell that from these pictures. Specifically, does it have a turn on/off "thump"? Are noise levels excessive due to the included Bluetooth? How does input switching occur? Is distortion exceedingly high or frequency response not flat due to improper implementation of the circuit?

It is always a gamble with this sort of AliExpress amplifier that is sold under multiple brand names and designed by who knows who. Personally I would pick the 3eAudio TPA3250 over the Nobsound amp for a couple of reasons. First of all, I'm a big fan of DSP and I like to have it in every speaker system I set up. This is for general EQ to correct for deficiencies in a speaker's frequency response but also for room correction. To get anywhere near accurate bass response with speakers in a room you need room correction imo. Of course this complicates things by requiring a microphone such as the umik-1 and learning of some software. And with the 3eAudio amps things are further complicated by the need for their USBi programmer which can only be connected after opening up the case. But once you learn to utilize the DSP capabilities you will be able to achieve much better results then what you can get with EQ knobs. Secondly, 3eAudio is a brand I have some faith in. Their products appear to be high quality with attention paid to ensuring good performance which can be seen in the measurement graphs they provide. Any issues with this amp will hopefully show up in this thread discussing their new DSP amplifiers, where a 3eAudio representative has been providing information. In fact they did have an issue with their BT receivers which has been corrected and they provided a new firmware for the amp to prevent auto-standby for those who want that. They should be coming out with a higher power TPA3255 version soon as well.

Of course in the end the decision is yours and if you really like the look and functionality of that Nobsound amp I can't fault you. Hopefully it is a good performer.

 

[Ralferator]

That Nobsound TPA3255 looks pretty nice inside and out. The thing that really matters is how it performs though, and you can't tell that from these pictures. Specifically, does it have a turn on/off "thump"? Are noise levels excessive due to the included Bluetooth? How does input switching occur? Is distortion exceedingly high or frequency response not flat due to improper implementation of the circuit?

It is always a gamble with this sort of AliExpress amplifier that is sold under multiple brand names and designed by who knows who. Personally I would pick the 3eAudio TPA3250 over the Nobsound amp for a couple of reasons. First of all, I'm a big fan of DSP and I like to have it in every speaker system I set up. This is for general EQ to correct for deficiencies in a speaker's frequency response but also for room correction. To get anywhere near accurate bass response with speakers in a room you need room correction imo. Of course this complicates things by requiring a microphone such as the umik-1 and learning of some software. And with the 3eAudio amps things are further complicated by the need for their USBi programmer which can only be connected after opening up the case. But once you learn to utilize the DSP capabilities you will be able to achieve much better results then what you can get with EQ knobs. Secondly, 3eAudio is a brand I have some faith in. Their products appear to be high quality with attention paid to ensuring good performance which can be seen in the measurement graphs they provide. Any issues with this amp will hopefully show up in this thread discussing their new DSP amplifiers, where a 3eAudio representative has been providing information. In fact they did have an issue with their BT receivers which has been corrected and they provided a new firmware for the amp to prevent auto-standby for those who want that. They should be coming out with a higher power TPA3255 version soon as well.

Of course in the end the decision is yours and if you really like the look and functionality of that Nobsound amp I can't fault you. Hopefully it is a good performer.

Thank you very much once again! Yes maybe the 3eAudio is the way to go. It seems like a quality product. It's nice to have the ability for room correction. Also if i ad a subwoofer i could set a highpass for the bookshelf speakers, so the power should be plenty and the speakers would not have to play deep bass. Or if i get the Floorstanders maybe i should wait for the TPA3255 version. Thank you very much for your help. If anybody has experience with that Noobsound aka BRZHifi aka Breeze Audio TPA3255, please let me know.

 

[TimW]

Power requirements should be based on maximum SPL requirements and speaker efficiency/sensitivity. Larger speakers actually tend to be more efficient, at least with conventional designs, and therefor require less power to reach the same volume levels. In this case the JBL Stage A130 is rated at 86dB @ 1M, 2.83V whereas the Stage A180 is rated at 90dB @ 1M, 2.83V. This means the A180 can play louder than the A130 while using the same amount of power. I strongly recommend going with the A180 if you can swing the price. It looks to be a proper 2.5 way with typical modern JBL engineering behind it. You are likely to find that 50 watts per channel is more than enough to make these speakers sing in your space but of course more power is always better.

The unfortunate thing about the 3eAudio DSP amps is that they are only 2 channel devices. This means that you don't get a separate output that could be used for a subwoofer. So the only way to implement a high-pass filter for the speakers would be with another upstream device with a subwoofer output and volume control. So basically the 3eAudio DSP amp is not the thing to get if you want to integrate your subwoofer most effectively, although you may just get adequate results using the high level inputs on the sub and room eq.

 

[Ralferator]

That Nobsound TPA3255 looks pretty nice inside and out. The thing that really matters is how it performs though, and you can't tell that from these pictures. Specifically, does it have a turn on/off "thump"? Are noise levels excessive due to the included Bluetooth? How does input switching occur? Is distortion exceedingly high or frequency response not flat due to improper implementation of the circuit?

It is always a gamble with this sort of AliExpress amplifier that is sold under multiple brand names and designed by who knows who. Personally I would pick the 3eAudio TPA3250 over the Nobsound amp for a couple of reasons. First of all, I'm a big fan of DSP and I like to have it in every speaker system I set up. This is for general EQ to correct for deficiencies in a speaker's frequency response but also for room correction. To get anywhere near accurate bass response with speakers in a room you need room correction imo. Of course this complicates things by requiring a microphone such as the umik-1 and learning of some software. And with the 3eAudio amps things are further complicated by the need for their USBi programmer which can only be connected after opening up the case. But once you learn to utilize the DSP capabilities you will be able to achieve much better results then what you can get with EQ knobs. Secondly, 3eAudio is a brand I have some faith in. Their products appear to be high quality with attention paid to ensuring good performance which can be seen in the measurement graphs they provide. Any issues with this amp will hopefully show up in this thread discussing their new DSP amplifiers, where a 3eAudio representative has been providing information. In fact they did have an issue with their BT receivers which has been corrected and they provided a new firmware for the amp to prevent auto-standby for those who want that. They should be coming out with a higher power TPA3255 version soon as well.

Of course in the end the decision is yours and if you really like the look and functionality of that Nobsound amp I can't fault you. Hopefully it is a good performer.

So this USBi programmer that you linked is also a preamp with bass and treble knob and cinch-inputs? I don't really understand their products. Does it get connected to the opened amp to program the DSP and then can also be used as a preamplifier? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10000090227951.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.1.488dbd20DQveQ2

 

[TimW]

So this USBi programmer that you linked is also a preamp with bass and treble knob and cinch-inputs? I don't really understand their products. Does it get connected to the opened amp to program the DSP and then can also be used as a preamplifier? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10000090227951.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.1.488dbd20DQveQ2

They have 3 products on that same page. The USBi programmer is required to program the preamp that's also for sale. Just select the picture of the USBi under the "color" section to select the right product. That preamp is an interesting piece of kit that you could use with a simple power amplifier and your subwoofer. It is just a circuit board that requires a case though.

 

[Ralferator]

Power requirements should be based on maximum SPL requirements and speaker efficiency/sensitivity. Larger speakers actually tend to be more efficient, at least with conventional designs, and therefor require less power to reach the same volume levels. In this case the JBL Stage A130 is rated at 86dB @ 1M, 2.83V whereas the Stage A180 is rated at 90dB @ 1M, 2.83V. This means the A180 can play louder than the A130 while using the same amount of power. I strongly recommend going with the A180 if you can swing the price. It looks to be a proper 2.5 way with typical modern JBL engineering behind it. You are likely to find that 50 watts per channel is more than enough to make these speakers sing in your space but of course more power is always better.

The unfortunate thing about the 3eAudio DSP amps is that they are only 2 channel devices. This means that you don't get a separate output that could be used for a subwoofer. So the only way to implement a high-pass filter for the speakers would be with another upstream device with a subwoofer output and volume control. So basically the 3eAudio DSP amp is not the thing to get if you want to integrate your subwoofer most effectively, although you may just get adequate results using the high level inputs on the sub and room eq.

Yes the bigger speakers would be nicer i guess, but they are much more expensive here. Also i might use my E-Bass Box as a subwoofer, so i might not need them. It's not sure yet. Yes to integrate a subwoofer i guess i would have to get an external Bluetooth-Receiver and a Y-cable - that should work, right? I thought about getting this amp, to power the subwoofer: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

But then again i would not be able to use the room EQ for the subwoofer, which would be sad, because in the bass region it should matter the most, right? The only way would maybe be to get a seperate room EQ for the sub, like this: https://www.daytonaudio.com/product/1664/dsp-lf-low-frequency-dsp-controller (Sadly this dsp is as expensive as the whole 3eAudio amp)
What do you think?

 

[Ralferator]

They have 3 products on that same page. The USBi programmer is required to program the preamp that's also for sale. Just select the picture of the USBi under the "color" section to select the right product. That preamp is an interesting piece of kit that you could use with a simple power amplifier and your subwoofer. It is just a circuit board that requires a case though.

Ah - got it - thank you

 

[Ralferator]

They have 3 products on that same page. The USBi programmer is required to program the preamp that's also for sale. Just select the picture of the USBi under the "color" section to select the right product. That preamp is an interesting piece of kit that you could use with a simple power amplifier and your subwoofer. It is just a circuit board that requires a case though.

Too bad that the preamp also only has one stereo output as far as i understand. But since it has the same dsp, i could use it as a preamplifier, use a y-cable and go into two power amplifiers. Then i would be able to use the room-eq for the Subwoofer and the satellites, right?

 

[TimW]

Yes the bigger speakers would be nicer i guess, but they are much more expensive here. Also i might use my E-Bass Box as a subwoofer, so i might not need them. It's not sure yet. Yes to integrate a subwoofer i guess i would have to get an external Bluetooth-Receiver and a Y-cable - that should work, right? I thought about getting this amp, to power the subwoofer: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...earchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

But then again i would not be able to use the room EQ for the subwoofer, which would be sad, because in the bass region it should matter the most, right? The only way would maybe be to get a seperate room EQ for the sub, like this: https://www.daytonaudio.com/product/1664/dsp-lf-low-frequency-dsp-controller (Sadly this dsp is as expensive as the whole 3eAudio amp)
What do you think?

Yeah in this price range it becomes a real PITA to properly integrate a subwoofer because no single device can do it and multiple little devices becomes jenky and opens the door to other issues. What I always recommend to people in the US who want to do this is just get a used AVR. They are dirt cheap here and you get decent amplification, crossover filters, a subwoofer output, and room EQ that is very easy to use. Is that an option for you?