Multichannel computer audio solutions

[dithered]

Curious if anyone has any advice for non HDMI multichannel computer audio. I'm done with HDMI because I'm sick of having a phantom HDMI monitor, and frankly, HDMI is basically a plague on Earth that only exists to sell pointless encryption hardware to apply DRM.

I know Dante audio setups are an option. I looked at USB DACs, but it seems like one of the few ones out there, the Topping DM7, is discontinued, and their drivers seem flaky anyway.

The goal for this is just to have rock solid multichannel audio on a computer without HDMI. Don't need any Dolby or DTS bullcrap.

 

[voodooless]

I looked at USB DACs, but it seems like one of the few ones out there, the Topping DM7, is discontinued, and their drivers seem flaky anyway.

There are dozens and dozens of professional multichannel audio interfaces of varying quality and budget. Several have been tested here.

Don't need any Dolby or DTS bullcrap.

So what is your source?

 

[ppataki]

You can use a pro audio multichannel audio interface, such as these
(I have set the filters to a minimum of four output channels)

 

[dithered]

There are dozens and dozens of professional multichannel audio interfaces of varying quality and budget. Several have been tested here.

So what is your source?

I have multichannel FLACs that I ripped myself. Also, computer games, basically just multichannel PCM.

It seems like the rare things with the professional interfaces is to find one that actually has WDM drivers that support multichannel sound. Most of the professional stuff just figures you're going to use ASIO and doesn't bother.

I know the Marian Clara E is an AES67/Dante solution that actually has a WDM driver.

 

[dithered]

You can use a pro audio multichannel audio interface, such as these
(I have set the filters to a minimum of four output channels)

It seems like they would work. Just wondering if things like the Gigaport eX, for example, actually support multichannel audio audio in games with its WDM driver. It's possible that they could have multichannel through ASIO but their WDM driver is only stereo. I've seen that with some of them.

​

 

[ppataki]

It seems like they would work. Just wondering if things like the Gigaport eX, for example, actually support multichannel audio audio in games with its WDM driver. It's possible that they could have multichannel through ASIO but their WDM driver is only stereo. I've seen that with some of them.

​

You can check the manual, that shall confirm if multichannel WDM driver is available or not
Alternatively you can write to their support desk

If you use Jriver, that is a non-issue, ASIO would work fine - and you can route all signals through its DSP engine using its WDM driver (i.e. Jriver's WDM driver) - that is what I am doing on both my systems

 

[Sal1950]

Curious if anyone has any advice for non HDMI multichannel computer audio. I'm done with HDMI because I'm sick of having a phantom HDMI monitor, and frankly, HDMI is basically a plague on Earth that only exists to sell pointless encryption hardware to apply DRM.

Don't know what your issue is with HDMI, I've used it for years to send multich signals in quad, 5.1, Atmos, Auros and more,from both Linux and Windows.
It's been a blessing to the audio/video world, handling signals that used to require a whole bundle of separate cables now reduced to 1?
YMMV

 

[popej]

I'm done with HDMI because I'm sick of having a phantom HDMI monitor, and frankly, HDMI is basically a plague on Earth that only exists to sell pointless encryption hardware to apply DRM.

I have multiple sources with HDMI output: BR, DVD, RPi, GTV, Fire stick, CoreElec. All it works well. IMO your problem is PC, not HDMI.

 

[dithered]

I have multiple sources with HDMI output: BR, DVD, RPi, GTV, Fire stick, CoreElec. All it works well. IMO your problem is PC, not HDMI.

No, it's HDMI. There is absolutely no reason that audio and video need to be tied together other than DRM. Literally the only reason it was done that way.

 

[dithered]

Don't know what your issue is with HDMI, I've used it for years to send multich signals in quad, 5.1, Atmos, Auros and more,from both Linux and Windows.
It's been a blessing to the audio/video world, handling signals that used to require a whole bundle of separate cables now reduced to 1?
YMMV

You can't use HDMI for audio only because of its lame dependency on video (driven by DRM).

Display Port, for example, supports mulitchannel audio with a single cable and allows you to separate video and audio. This is because it was designed to actually work and not sell HDMI licenses, etc.

 

[dithered]

You can check the manual, that shall confirm if multichannel WDM driver is available or not
Alternatively you can write to their support desk

If you use Jriver, that is a non-issue, ASIO would work fine - and you can route all signals through its DSP engine using its WDM driver (i.e. Jriver's WDM driver) - that is what I am doing on both my systems

That Jriver sound re-routing is interesting. Thanks for telling me about it. Looking at the wiki, though, it seems like it has some issues and I'm looking for something bulletproof.

WDM Driver - wiki.jriver.com

wiki.jriver.com

 

[ppataki]

It works totally fine
I only have issues with it at 192kHz but they are working on it

 

[dithered]

It works totally fine
I only have issues with it at 192kHz but they are working on it

A ton of PC games don't work at 192kHz anyway so that's not a big deal to me.

 

[ppataki]

A ton of PC games don't work at 192kHz anyway so that's not a big deal to me.

btw. I also use it with games, my daughter plays with Song of Nunu - it has multichannel sound and it works like a charm through Jriver's WDM driver

I have just checked, for example the ESI Gigaport eX does have a multichannel WDM driver:

 

[welwynnick]

Curious if anyone has any advice for non HDMI multichannel computer audio. I'm done with HDMI because I'm sick of having a phantom HDMI monitor, and frankly, HDMI is basically a plague on Earth that only exists to sell pointless encryption hardware to apply DRM.
I know Dante audio setups are an option. I looked at USB DACs, but it seems like one of the few ones out there, the Topping DM7, is discontinued, and their drivers seem flaky anyway.
The goal for this is just to have rock solid multichannel audio on a computer without HDMI. Don't need any Dolby or DTS bullcrap.

I completely agree; HDMI is an audio curse.

Once you venture outside the domestic domain and into studio equipment, you will indeed find a large number of high-performing, reasonably priced audio interfaces that can perform multi-channel D to A conversion without HDMI.

The only problem is that studio equipment uses a ridiculous range of OTHER digital audio interfaces.
These include ADAT, MADI, HDX, Ravenna, AES67, AVB, Dante, AES/EBU, TB2, TB3 and USB.
Each manufacturer favours certain interfaces, some are proprietary, and there's not much convergence or standardisation.
HDX is a popular AVID interface. Ravenna, AES67, AVB and Dante are audio over IP (AOIP) interfaces, often considered the way forwards.
Many of the listed interfaces are only realised with optional interface modules.
There's generally an (expensive) PCIE card for each interface. USB and TB3 are ubiquitous, but Dante has the advantage of a low cost network driver - Dante Virtual SoundCard.

I put together a table of suitable interfaces, lets see if I can reproduce it here. There's a couple of stereo DACs in there for comparison. The ones I favour are Priority 1.

Manufacturer	Model	ADAT	MADI	HDX	Rav enna	AES 67	AVB	Dante	AES 3	USB	TB3	PEQ	Chan	SINAD	DNR	Out dBu	Out V	Out Imp	Price £	Priority	PEQ
Topping	D50 III								A	U		P	2	123	132	16	5.0	100	229	2
Universal	Apollo X16										T3		16	123	127	24	12.2	100	3,035	2
Topping	DM7									U			8	121	130	16	5.0	100	599	1
Antelope	Orion 32 HD G3			H						U		?	32	120	129	24	12.2	112	3,000	1
Apogee	Symphony Mk II							D	A		T2		16	119	126	24	12.2	25	8,000	1
Okto	Research DAC8								A	U		?	8	118	125	22	10.0	200	1,180	1
Apogee	Symphony Mk I								A		T2		16	117	129	24	12.2	25	(1,000)	1
Merging	Horus		M	H	R	67			A				32	116	125	24	12.2	90	9,358	3
Merging	Hapi Mk II				R	67							16	116	125	24	12.2	90	6,730	2
Benchmark	DAC 3B								A	U			2	116	123	27	20.0	60	1,845	4
DAD	AX32		M			67		D	A			P	32	115	128				7,073	3	SoundID
Antelope	Galaxy 32			H				D			T3	P	32	115	128	22	9.8	56	3,675	1	PEQ
Antelope	Orion 32 + G 4									U	T3	P	32	115	128	24	12.2	56	2,400	3	PEQ
Antelope	Orion Studio Synergy Core									U	T3		16	115	128				1,700	1
MOTU	828	T								U			8	114	125	21	8.7	220	960	2
ExaSound	S88 MARK II									U			8	113	123				6,080	4
MOTU	Ultralite AVB						B			U			8	112	123	21	8.7	220	599	1
Panasonic	DP-UB9000									U			8	112	116	8	2.0	500	1,000	4
PrismSound	ADA-128			H				D	A				16	111	125				17,274	4
Grace Design	m908			H	R			D	A				16	-	125				7,958	3
RME	M-1620 Pro D	T	M					D					16	111	120	24	12.2	200	2,796	1
RME	M-1620 Pro	T	M				B						16	111	120	24	12.2	200	2,608	3
RME	M-32 Pro II D		M					D					32	111	120	24	12.2	200	3,796	4
RME	M-32 Pro II		M				B						32	111	120	24	12.2	200	3,290	4
RME	Fireface 802 FS	T								U		P	8	110	119	19	7.1	75	1,515	3	SoundID
Avid	MTRX II		M	H				D	A		T3	P	16	110	128				11,800	3	SoundID
Avid	HD I/O	T		H					A				16	110	125				(800)	3
MOTU	16A						B			U	T2		16	110	123	20	7.9	200	1,321	1
MOTU	1248						B			U	T2		8	110	123	20	7.9	200	1,230	4
Avid	MTRX Studio			H				D			T3	P	16	110	118	24	12.2	25	4,700	3	SoundID
DirectOut	Prodigy MC		M		R	67	B		A				32	109	120				10,000	4
DirectOut	Andiamo Dante		M		R	67							32	109	120	24	12.2	50	5,712	3
Lynx	Aurora 16 (n)							D	A	U	T3	P	16	108	120	20	7.9		4,400	1	SoundID
Antelope	Orion 32 + G 3									U	T2		32	107	120	24	12.2	56	2,400	3
RME	M-1610 Pro		M				B						8	107	119				1,915	3
Apogee	DA-16X	T							A				16	107	118	24	12.2		(800)	2
Lynx	Aurora 16							D	A	U	T2		16	107	117				(1000)	2
Dangerous	Music Convert 8	T							A				8	107	114				3,900	3
McIntosh	MX-100												13	107	110				7,000	4
PrismSound	Atlas	T											8	106	115				4,618	4
Audient	Oria							D		U		P	16	105	126				2,485	1	SoundID
Digidesign	192 I/O			H					A				8	105	120				(300)	4
Focusrite	RedNet A16R II					67		D					16	105	119				3,380	2
Lucid	88192								A				8	105	115				(650)	3
Focusrite	Red 16 Line					67		D			T3		16	104	121				2,920	1
Apogee	Rosetta 800	T							A				8	103	114				(500)	3
RME	ADI-8 DS Mk III	T							A				8	102	120				1,400	3
PrismSound	ADA 8XR			H					A				8	102	108				7,192	4
Tascam	ML-16D							D					16	100	110				1,400	4

I think the short answer is to get the Okto DAC8.

 

[welwynnick]

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[dithered]

I completely agree; HDMI is an audio curse.

Once you venture outside the domestic domain and into studio equipment, you will indeed find a large number of high-performing, reasonably priced audio interfaces that can perform multi-channel D to A conversion without HDMI.

The only problem is that studio equipment uses a ridiculous range of OTHER digital audio interfaces.
These include ADAT, MADI, HDX, Ravenna, AES67, AVB, Dante, AES/EBU, TB2, TB3 and USB.
Each manufacturer favours certain interfaces, some are proprietary, and there's not much convergence or standardisation.
HDX is a popular AVID interface. Ravenna, AES67, AVB and Dante are audio over IP (AOIP) interfaces, often considered the way forwards.
Many of the listed interfaces are only realised with optional interface modules.
There's generally an (expensive) PCIE card for each interface. USB and TB3 are ubiquitous, but Dante has the advantage of a low cost network driver - Dante Virtual SoundCard.

I put together a table of suitable interfaces, lets see if I can reproduce it here. There's a couple of stereo DACs in there for comparison. The ones I favour are Priority 1.

Manufacturer	Model	ADAT	MADI	HDX	Rav enna	AES 67	AVB	Dante	AES 3	USB	TB3	PEQ	Chan	SINAD	DNR	Out dBu	Out V	Out Imp	Price £	Priority	PEQ
Topping	D50 III								A	U		P	2	123	132	16	5.0	100	229	2
Universal	Apollo X16										T3		16	123	127	24	12.2	100	3,035	2
Topping	DM7									U			8	121	130	16	5.0	100	599	1
Antelope	Orion 32 HD G3			H						U		?	32	120	129	24	12.2	112	3,000	1
Apogee	Symphony Mk II							D	A		T2		16	119	126	24	12.2	25	8,000	1
Okto	Research DAC8								A	U		?	8	118	125	22	10.0	200	1,180	1
Apogee	Symphony Mk I								A		T2		16	117	129	24	12.2	25	(1,000)	1
Merging	Horus		M	H	R	67			A				32	116	125	24	12.2	90	9,358	3
Merging	Hapi Mk II				R	67							16	116	125	24	12.2	90	6,730	2
Benchmark	DAC 3B								A	U			2	116	123	27	20.0	60	1,845	4
DAD	AX32		M			67		D	A			P	32	115	128				7,073	3	SoundID
Antelope	Galaxy 32			H				D			T3	P	32	115	128	22	9.8	56	3,675	1	PEQ
Antelope	Orion 32 + G 4									U	T3	P	32	115	128	24	12.2	56	2,400	3	PEQ
Antelope	Orion Studio Synergy Core									U	T3		16	115	128				1,700	1
MOTU	828	T								U			8	114	125	21	8.7	220	960	2
ExaSound	S88 MARK II									U			8	113	123				6,080	4
MOTU	Ultralite AVB						B			U			8	112	123	21	8.7	220	599	1
Panasonic	DP-UB9000									U			8	112	116	8	2.0	500	1,000	4
PrismSound	ADA-128			H				D	A				16	111	125				17,274	4
Grace Design	m908			H	R			D	A				16	-	125				7,958	3
RME	M-1620 Pro D	T	M					D					16	111	120	24	12.2	200	2,796	1
RME	M-1620 Pro	T	M				B						16	111	120	24	12.2	200	2,608	3
RME	M-32 Pro II D		M					D					32	111	120	24	12.2	200	3,796	4
RME	M-32 Pro II		M				B						32	111	120	24	12.2	200	3,290	4
RME	Fireface 802 FS	T								U		P	8	110	119	19	7.1	75	1,515	3	SoundID
Avid	MTRX II		M	H				D	A		T3	P	16	110	128				11,800	3	SoundID
Avid	HD I/O	T		H					A				16	110	125				(800)	3
MOTU	16A						B			U	T2		16	110	123	20	7.9	200	1,321	1
MOTU	1248						B			U	T2		8	110	123	20	7.9	200	1,230	4
Avid	MTRX Studio			H				D			T3	P	16	110	118	24	12.2	25	4,700	3	SoundID
DirectOut	Prodigy MC		M		R	67	B		A				32	109	120				10,000	4
DirectOut	Andiamo Dante		M		R	67							32	109	120	24	12.2	50	5,712	3
Lynx	Aurora 16 (n)							D	A	U	T3	P	16	108	120	20	7.9		4,400	1	SoundID
Antelope	Orion 32 + G 3									U	T2		32	107	120	24	12.2	56	2,400	3
RME	M-1610 Pro		M				B						8	107	119				1,915	3
Apogee	DA-16X	T							A				16	107	118	24	12.2		(800)	2
Lynx	Aurora 16							D	A	U	T2		16	107	117				(1000)	2
Dangerous	Music Convert 8	T							A				8	107	114				3,900	3
McIntosh	MX-100												13	107	110				7,000	4
PrismSound	Atlas	T											8	106	115				4,618	4
Audient	Oria							D		U		P	16	105	126				2,485	1	SoundID
Digidesign	192 I/O			H					A				8	105	120				(300)	4
Focusrite	RedNet A16R II					67		D					16	105	119				3,380	2
Lucid	88192								A				8	105	115				(650)	3
Focusrite	Red 16 Line					67		D			T3		16	104	121				2,920	1
Apogee	Rosetta 800	T							A				8	103	114				(500)	3
RME	ADI-8 DS Mk III	T							A				8	102	120				1,400	3
PrismSound	ADA 8XR			H					A				8	102	108				7,192	4
Tascam	ML-16D							D					16	100	110				1,400	4

I think the short answer is to get the Okto DAC8.

Thanks that's a great resource. Curious, though, any reason you haven't looked into the Marian Clara E or emin?

Clara E – MARIAN GmbH

www.marian.de

Clara Emin – MARIAN GmbH

www.marian.de

It has Windows and Linux drivers and supposedly supports all the normal Windows APIs that games use. It seems good for Dante it's just expensive.

 

[Chrispy]

You can't use HDMI for audio only because of its lame dependency on video (driven by DRM).

Display Port, for example, supports mulitchannel audio with a single cable and allows you to separate video and audio. This is because it was designed to actually work and not sell HDMI licenses, etc.

I use hdmi for audio only.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I completely agree; HDMI is an audio curse.

Once you venture outside the domestic domain and into studio equipment, you will indeed find a large number of high-performing, reasonably priced audio interfaces that can perform multi-channel D to A conversion without HDMI.

The only problem is that studio equipment uses a ridiculous range of OTHER digital audio interfaces.
These include ADAT, MADI, HDX, Ravenna, AES67, AVB, Dante, AES/EBU, TB2, TB3 and USB.
Each manufacturer favours certain interfaces, some are proprietary, and there's not much convergence or standardisation.
HDX is a popular AVID interface. Ravenna, AES67, AVB and Dante are audio over IP (AOIP) interfaces, often considered the way forwards.
Many of the listed interfaces are only realised with optional interface modules.
There's generally an (expensive) PCIE card for each interface. USB and TB3 are ubiquitous, but Dante has the advantage of a low cost network driver - Dante Virtual SoundCard.

I put together a table of suitable interfaces, lets see if I can reproduce it here. There's a couple of stereo DACs in there for comparison. The ones I favour are Priority 1.

Manufacturer	Model	ADAT	MADI	HDX	Rav enna	AES 67	AVB	Dante	AES 3	USB	TB3	PEQ	Chan	SINAD	DNR	Out dBu	Out V	Out Imp	Price £	Priority	PEQ
Topping	D50 III								A	U		P	2	123	132	16	5.0	100	229	2
Universal	Apollo X16										T3		16	123	127	24	12.2	100	3,035	2
Topping	DM7									U			8	121	130	16	5.0	100	599	1
Antelope	Orion 32 HD G3			H						U		?	32	120	129	24	12.2	112	3,000	1
Apogee	Symphony Mk II							D	A		T2		16	119	126	24	12.2	25	8,000	1
Okto	Research DAC8								A	U		?	8	118	125	22	10.0	200	1,180	1
Apogee	Symphony Mk I								A		T2		16	117	129	24	12.2	25	(1,000)	1
Merging	Horus		M	H	R	67			A				32	116	125	24	12.2	90	9,358	3
Merging	Hapi Mk II				R	67							16	116	125	24	12.2	90	6,730	2
Benchmark	DAC 3B								A	U			2	116	123	27	20.0	60	1,845	4
DAD	AX32		M			67		D	A			P	32	115	128				7,073	3	SoundID
Antelope	Galaxy 32			H				D			T3	P	32	115	128	22	9.8	56	3,675	1	PEQ
Antelope	Orion 32 + G 4									U	T3	P	32	115	128	24	12.2	56	2,400	3	PEQ
Antelope	Orion Studio Synergy Core									U	T3		16	115	128				1,700	1
MOTU	828	T								U			8	114	125	21	8.7	220	960	2
ExaSound	S88 MARK II									U			8	113	123				6,080	4
MOTU	Ultralite AVB						B			U			8	112	123	21	8.7	220	599	1
Panasonic	DP-UB9000									U			8	112	116	8	2.0	500	1,000	4
PrismSound	ADA-128			H				D	A				16	111	125				17,274	4
Grace Design	m908			H	R			D	A				16	-	125				7,958	3
RME	M-1620 Pro D	T	M					D					16	111	120	24	12.2	200	2,796	1
RME	M-1620 Pro	T	M				B						16	111	120	24	12.2	200	2,608	3
RME	M-32 Pro II D		M					D					32	111	120	24	12.2	200	3,796	4
RME	M-32 Pro II		M				B						32	111	120	24	12.2	200	3,290	4
RME	Fireface 802 FS	T								U		P	8	110	119	19	7.1	75	1,515	3	SoundID
Avid	MTRX II		M	H				D	A		T3	P	16	110	128				11,800	3	SoundID
Avid	HD I/O	T		H					A				16	110	125				(800)	3
MOTU	16A						B			U	T2		16	110	123	20	7.9	200	1,321	1
MOTU	1248						B			U	T2		8	110	123	20	7.9	200	1,230	4
Avid	MTRX Studio			H				D			T3	P	16	110	118	24	12.2	25	4,700	3	SoundID
DirectOut	Prodigy MC		M		R	67	B		A				32	109	120				10,000	4
DirectOut	Andiamo Dante		M		R	67							32	109	120	24	12.2	50	5,712	3
Lynx	Aurora 16 (n)							D	A	U	T3	P	16	108	120	20	7.9		4,400	1	SoundID
Antelope	Orion 32 + G 3									U	T2		32	107	120	24	12.2	56	2,400	3
RME	M-1610 Pro		M				B						8	107	119				1,915	3
Apogee	DA-16X	T							A				16	107	118	24	12.2		(800)	2
Lynx	Aurora 16							D	A	U	T2		16	107	117				(1000)	2
Dangerous	Music Convert 8	T							A				8	107	114				3,900	3
McIntosh	MX-100												13	107	110				7,000	4
PrismSound	Atlas	T											8	106	115				4,618	4
Audient	Oria							D		U		P	16	105	126				2,485	1	SoundID
Digidesign	192 I/O			H					A				8	105	120				(300)	4
Focusrite	RedNet A16R II					67		D					16	105	119				3,380	2
Lucid	88192								A				8	105	115				(650)	3
Focusrite	Red 16 Line					67		D			T3		16	104	121				2,920	1
Apogee	Rosetta 800	T							A				8	103	114				(500)	3
RME	ADI-8 DS Mk III	T							A				8	102	120				1,400	3
PrismSound	ADA 8XR			H					A				8	102	108				7,192	4
Tascam	ML-16D							D					16	100	110				1,400	4

I think the short answer is to get the Okto DAC8.

Good list but you should add Merging Anubis.

 

[Mike-48]

If you use Jriver, that is a non-issue, ASIO would work fine - and you can route all signals through its DSP engine using its WDM driver (i.e. Jriver's WDM driver) - that is what I am doing on both my systems

I'm glad to hear they fixed the WDM driver. Several years ago, I wasted weeks trying to get it to work in my setup. Using the JRiver forum, I received the usual abuse from the vendor and a few sympathetic replies from other users, but nothing that helped. So perhaps they have done some reprogramming -- or perhaps you just were lucky. I would recommend anyone who needs that feature not buy a JRiver license before testing the feature on the free download.