Possible solution for DTS/Dolby/Atmos+eARC+HDCP to AES/EBU - via Dante? (for Okto DAC8PRO etc)

[welwynnick]

A few points regarding the Meridian HD621.
The reason for using smartlink / encryption is to add a layer of coding that de-correlates the data from the jitter, which the connection is otherwise susceptible to.
The HD621 does not do per-channel levels and delays; only global delay.
A used HD621 is relatively cheap and readily available.

 

[welwynnick]

Tempted to try this using the trial version once I get my height channels setup.

https://professionalsupport.dolby.com/s/question/0D5QQ00000uFpH30AK/dolby-renderer-on-macos-dolby-atmos-on-apple-music-it-works-solution-for-streaming-playback-of-encoded-atmos-content-on-the-same-system-as-daw?language=en_US

That's interesting, but does it work on lossy compressed codecs like Dolby Digital, or does it work on lossless codecs like TrueHD? I suspect the former.

 

[carolimagni]

A few points regarding the Meridian HD621.
The reason for using smartlink / encryption is to add a layer of coding that de-correlates the data from the jitter, which the connection is otherwise susceptible to.
The HD621 does not do per-channel levels and delays; only global delay.
A used HD621 is relatively cheap and readily available.

I can't find any real explanation as to how that layer of encryption is serving the reduction of jitter. It can be inferred it would help detect it, as a form of off-label flow control, but how is it reducing that jitter? Is the buffer involved in that encryption actually doing that part?

I'm coming from a place of ignorance and cynicism, which is a dangerous combo. But the history of Smart Link makes me think that it's hokum, and that Smart Link has more to do with operating with other Meridian kit (no complaints from me) and the encryption is to appease particular segments of the industry.

Source

I think the global delay is intended for lipsync correction more so than room correction etc?

 

[welwynnick]

I can't find any real explanation as to how that layer of encryption is serving the reduction of jitter. It can be inferred it would help detect it, as a form of off-label flow control, but how is it reducing that jitter? Is the buffer involved in that encryption actually doing that part?

Nothing to do with flow control unfortunately, but even that wouldn't be compatible with their digital audio audio hierarchy because the controller has to be the clock master.
Anyway I think it's a daft idea. The premise is that spdif data has patterns that cause audible jitter artefacts, and that the encoding randomises the data so as to de-correlate the jitter. I don't think it affects the amount of jitter, just that it takes the form of noise rather than distortion.

I think the global delay is intended for lipsync correction more so than room correction etc?

Agreed

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I can't find any real explanation as to how that layer of encryption is serving the reduction of jitter. It can be inferred it would help detect it, as a form of off-label flow control, but how is it reducing that jitter? Is the buffer involved in that encryption actually doing that part?

I'm coming from a place of ignorance and cynicism, which is a dangerous combo. But the history of Smart Link makes me think that it's hokum, and that Smart Link has more to do with operating with other Meridian kit (no complaints from me) and the encryption is to appease particular segments of the industry.

View attachment 455894
Source

I think the global delay is intended for lipsync correction more so than room correction etc?

AFAIK, SmartLink conveys multiple AES/EBU channels.
I was thinking of MMHR.

 

[welwynnick]

AFAIK, SmartLink conveys multiple AES/EBU channels.

If you have multiple SmartLink connections.
I think it's MMHR that carries up to 8 channels on one connection.

 

[kfrancis]

I assume you use H2 or H16 for 1. from apple TV? And Both of them sound to me that they have their different troubles to go through?

Yes, I use an Arvus H2-4D. It would be great with a few software fixes, but alas. I use a small HDMI matrix switcher that outputs to both the Arvus and the TV, so I don't have to rely on the Arvus' passthrough.

 

[KitoDavy]

Yes, I use an Arvus H2-4D. It would be great with a few software fixes, but alas. I use a small HDMI matrix switcher that outputs to both the Arvus and the TV, so I don't have to rely on the Arvus' passthrough.

Thanks...I've just ordered the Stormaudio evo...it will be delivered next week.. I am using Marantz 8805a now. The Audyssey sounds awful, not even as good as non-calibrated. Looking forward to Dirac live ART... I start to get why stormaudio charge this much...

Also, I'm quite shocked about how large the 8361s are. I finally managed to move them into the right position. With 5 of them, I'm quite satisfied with the base SPL. The extension is not as good as a 10 inch sub, though they are larger than a 10 inch sub.

 

[Behrelec 37]

KitoDavy


Congratulations on your great smart active monitors ! The 8361a is a super great speaker both in stereo and for multi-channel movie/music/game enjoyment. I definitely recommend trying digital connection and especially trying connecting to the coax output connections of the bluray player in stereo. Use an impedance converter between 75/110 ohm. I can say that when you get to that sound taste on a level of understanding, you will then know what the basic quality level is from which you will build sound reproduction on even larger scales in the future. Because most music/movie listeners are still unable to grasp how far into the future the effect and advantage of digital connections is when it comes to Genelecs. I don't mean anyone in particular, but generally different types of people who don't test their own limits. Acoustics have a bigger meaning when connected digitally too.

I have the master series 1237a as main speakers digitally (hdmi/spdif/ aes/ebu) all sounds now in stereo and multi-channel, and also 8260a as side speakers analogically currently connected to the onkyo AV-RZ 5100 /11.2 (xlr) channel, but now the whole thing is now only 4.0 connected. Sometimes the analog old genelec 7071a subwoofer is also connected to the onkyo av amplifier, but not now. The movie/music sounds are half digital, available with two remote controls at the same time, of which the main speakers are handled digitally by the genelec 9320a volume control. And the side speakers are AV-Onkyo's own remote control stick. Works very well.

The ease of use is a bit more demanding if you don't constantly adjust the sound levels up/down. Otherwise, it works well when the sound levels are optimal based on the digital displays. Of course, all speakers are first calibrated with the glm software at the same time.

 

[KitoDavy]

KitoDavy


Congratulations on your great smart active monitors ! The 8361a is a super great speaker both in stereo and for multi-channel movie/music/game enjoyment. I definitely recommend trying digital connection and especially trying connecting to the coax output connections of the bluray player in stereo. Use an impedance converter between 75/110 ohm. I can say that when you get to that sound taste on a level of understanding, you will then know what the basic quality level is from which you will build sound reproduction on even larger scales in the future. Because most music/movie listeners are still unable to grasp how far into the future the effect and advantage of digital connections is when it comes to Genelecs. I don't mean anyone in particular, but generally different types of people who don't test their own limits. Acoustics have a bigger meaning when connected digitally too.

I have the master series 1237a as main speakers digitally (hdmi/spdif/ aes/ebu) all sounds now in stereo and multi-channel, and also 8260a as side speakers analogically currently connected to the onkyo AV-RZ 5100 /11.2 (xlr) channel, but now the whole thing is now only 4.0 connected. Sometimes the analog old genelec 7071a subwoofer is also connected to the onkyo av amplifier, but not now. The movie/music sounds are half digital, available with two remote controls at the same time, of which the main speakers are handled digitally by the genelec 9320a volume control. And the side speakers are AV-Onkyo's own remote control stick. Works very well.

The ease of use is a bit more demanding if you don't constantly adjust the sound levels up/down. Otherwise, it works well when the sound levels are optimal based on the digital displays. Of course, all speakers are first calibrated with the glm software at the same time.

Thank you! Did you do any room calibration after the GLM? Do you find any delays among analog connected speakers vs digital connected ones?

 

[Behrelec 37]

The sound is consistent throughout and even in multi-channel levels, it is even and consistent. GLM is always done in my living room first by adding up all the speakers, then listening to stereo for a while to see if the stereo sound is to your liking digitally. If not, then fine-tuning is done. The sound of the side speakers is also listened to in analog, but first in four-point stereo and fine-tuning is done with the GLM program in relation to the front speakers.

Only after that do I check the distances between the speakers/sensitivity in the Onkyo AV device's own software control panel and set all speaker sizes to large unless a selection has already been made. Of course, the 4.1 selection has already been selected there. A center speaker is also not needed at all with this configuration.

 

[Behrelec 37]

My onkyo Rz 5100 atmos Av.

 

[Behrelec 37]

I can add quite a few more speakers to my system. Dts hd-master sounds is very good and atmos can be made even bigger. I have already tried atmos ceiling speakers with my bedroom 8340 a speakers from my previous apartment, but my room is now a bit too small after I moved and for now I have only settled for 4.0 /4.1 multichannel playback.My source is PC windows/linus - nas, as well as apple tv 4k and plex server/ Amazon prime. As well as my old bluray player sony and my numerous bluray movies.


I note that the sound is always in my main speakers, only used digitally, even with movies, but the sound output is from the HDMI/ARC connector of the Onkyo AV amplifier out to my Sony TV and from there with fiber optic out and a change to my separate AES/EBU converter (Hosa Model ODL -312 optical AES/EBU link). and from there to the Genelec 9320 A volume control converter. The sound is burning, explosive, super clear all the time. No complaints with movies or music.

 

[Behrelec 37]

Settings

 

[carolimagni]

I'm anticipating the Nuprime-X H16-AES release - it could complement the Okto really well and open a few doors.

If for whatever reason your desired source device only has Optical SPDIF output; could something like the Sonos Optical Audio Adapter (+cable) in one of the Nuprime HDMI inputs be used to achieve Toslink input? Obviously video would be being handled by another device. For the Okto DAC8PRO, this would give it more of the input types available to the DAC8stereo. Complete side-quest, mind.

 

[Neddy]

Me too. Waiting with bugs in my teeth* for the AES version release.
Being able to switch the OktoDAC8 between USB and AES inputs (PC vs ATV streamer) via remote would be a game changer if it can really decode atmos.
Show me the product and take my money!!
(* baited breath)

 

[KitoDavy]

I note that the sound is always in my main speakers, only used digitally, even with movies,

This can be problematic as you are not fully getting benefits of all your investiments.....That's another reason i decided to go with Storm due to the StormXT that distribute ambient sound bed to unused speakers.

 

[darth]

That's interesting, but does it work on lossy compressed codecs like Dolby Digital, or does it work on lossless codecs like TrueHD? I suspect the former.

Apple music is DD+JOC, and likely almost all streaming services that support atmos to save on bandwidth. According to this article https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/imme...olby-truehd-atmos-on-windows-and-macos-r1092/ you probably need the Dolby reference player to decode TrueHD. Or I would assume some blu-ray software to decode?

 

[darth]

After reading reddit posts, I also just realized that apple music shows different descriptions for dolby icons. One is for atmos, and one is what I see that probably ignores the JOC data due to lack of a renderer (avr/avp/h16 etc) attached to my PC. Its multichannel, just no heights.

 

[Behrelec 37]

KitoDavy

You're right. But I've been waiting for multichannel digital connection at least since I bought the first sam/glm models. That's about 15 years. At some point I got frustrated and bought an analog av amplifier.

But I noticed that it can also be used in a way like I do. This choice is a compromise of course, but I recommend trying others until a full multichannel device is released on the market that is completely digital, every single channel is out as digital at the same time and everything works correctly, and is reasonably priced.