Affordable multichannel setup

[JustAnAudioLover]

Hi there!

I'm looking to build an affordable multichannel system. Basically I have multiple devices plugged into a TV, which has both an HDMI eARC and a Toslink output, and I would like to power a 5.1 system.

Most devices that can do that are either AVR (way too big and expensive) or special devices like MiniDSP's Flex HT, which is insanely expensive when you just want 5.1 decoding. Topping's (now discontinued) DM7 was also super expensive.

After a lot of research, I ended up finding that there are devices that can decode multichannel into 7.1 line out. There are a lot of cheap (and unreliable) devices like that on Amazon, but more reliable options would be the Sound Blaster X4: optical input, 7.1 line out. Perfect!

(If HDMI ARC is necessary, I could add a Sound Blaster G8 to convert ARC to optical, but in my case this would be a big cost for basically no benefits, as my TV already has an optical output)

The X4 is pretty cheap at about $100, far, far more than an AVR. And given I don't need Dolby / DTS decoding (my devices can already decode them to LPCM and send the signal via traditional HDMI), that I don't need builtin amplifiers, that I don't need HDMI passthrough, this seems like a perfect compromise as this is both cheap and extremely small (can be hidden behind a TV for instance).

My only problem is with the center channel. Basically, this seems to be a "passthrough" card: you send an optical input, it gives you a pre-out. But I use a phantom center from my L/R, so I'd need the center channel to be mixed into the L/R signal.

My question is: could this mixing be done easily by just, I don't know, plugging some cables to "merge" the signals, or is it actually something difficult to do that only AVR can handle?

Thanks in advance for your help

 

[ZolaIII]

Cheapest way to get there properly and close to 2V at least is internal PCI-E card and you are still limited to lossy old Dolby's (which is fine for most content) in 5.1 form (Toslink limitations). Sound Blaster Z SE will do fine as long as you keep it - 2 dB max (about 1.9 V).

 

[JustAnAudioLover]

Cheapest way to get there properly and close to 2V at least is internal PCI-E card and you are still limited to lossy old Dolby's (which is fine for most content) in 5.1 form (Toslink limitations). Sound Blaster Z SE will do fine as long as you keep it - 2 dB max (about 1.9 V).

So basically I would need to build a small PC with a PCIe card to convert optical to 5.1 line out? It's a nice idea but would be incredibly more expensive, going from ~$100 for the Soundblaster to at the very least ~$300 with a PC, probably closer to $400.

 

[ZolaIII]

So basically I would need to build a small PC with a PCIe card to convert optical to 5.1 line out? It's a nice idea but would be incredibly more expensive, going from ~$100 for the Soundblaster to at the very least ~$300 with a PC, probably closer to $400.

And how exactly did you think to use X4 without one? It's more money considering how tough it's become to find deacent mini ATX case. Point is on Toslink input not output from sound card.

 

[drodgers]

I'd go for a used AVR. You can definitely get them cheap if you don't need support for the newest formats.

 

[JustAnAudioLover]

I'd go for a used AVR. You can definitely get them cheap if you don't need support for the newest formats.

The problem is that AVR are way too big.

 

[JustAnAudioLover]

And how exactly did you think to use X4 without one? It's more money considering how tough it's become to find deacent mini ATX case. Point is on Toslink input not output from sound card.

X4 has an optical input, I can plug my TV into it and power the X4 into a power outlet with a USB.

 

[drodgers]

5 speaker outputs, a few HDMI inputs, and a sub output aren't going to be truly tiny even if you had a perfect box with exactly what you need. If you're looking for a constraint to relax, size will be the easiest. You can look for a slimline AVR too (rarer, but still pretty common).

 

[ZolaIII]

X4 has an optical input, I can plug my TV into it and power the X4 into a power outlet with a USB.

You still need PC to at very least configure and control it and Savitec USB multichannel bridge is something to avoid if you can and you still won't get 2V out but sometimes like from integrated sound card as 1.2 V tops (-5 dB to 2V).

 

[Chr1]

There are a few threads about this here. An AVR is usually seen as the simplest and most affordable option. They are a bit bigger than most amplifiers but reckon any other options are going to be way more complex. And likely more expensive too. My 2c.

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but an AVR or pre-pro is the only component with a menu system that allows you to do a phantom center channel. Thus, if you want a budget decoding device, you’re going to have to add a center channel.

...I don't need Dolby / DTS decoding, I don't need builtin amplifiers, I don't need HDMI passthrough

Well – few (if any) of us use every single feature that a typical AVR comes with. Unfortunately, that’s the way it’s going to be until someone comes up with buffet-styled, special order manufacturing system that’s economically viable.

We get these questions from time to time, people with unique or specialized desires who can’t find equipment to meet their needs and / or unrealistic budgets – check the “similar threads” at the bottom of the page.

But the reality is, you’re probably going to have to adjust your desires to fit what is on the market. Or be prepared to settle for less.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[JustAnAudioLover]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but an AVR or pre-pro is the only component with a menu system that allows you to do a phantom center channel. Thus, if you want a budget decoding device, you’re going to have to add a center channel.

Well – few (if any) of us use every single feature that a typical AVR comes with. Unfortunately, that’s the way it’s going to be until someone comes up with buffet-styled, special order manufacturing system that’s economically viable.

We get these questions from time to time, people with unique or specialized desires who can’t find equipment to meet their needs and / or unrealistic budgets – check the “similar threads” at the bottom of the page.

But the reality is, you’re probably going to have to adjust your desires to fit what is on the market. Or be prepared to settle for less.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Well actually it could be done with a small PC using a PCIe card with optical in and pre-outs, but it's a bit bigger and quite a bit more expensive than a basic soundcard.
This may be the way I go though, as AVRs are way too big and expensive for what I'd like to do.

 

[MCH]

Do I understand that you want to send 5.1 decoded lpcm via toslink? Is that possible?

 

[ZolaIII]

Do I understand that you want to send 5.1 decoded lpcm via toslink? Is that possible?

Nope, you can stream losy Dolby's with add ons (metadata) to decoder suport (on card) but it's not lossy in the bad way and well what you get for most multichannel content anyway. You can do internal transcoding (with for instance JRiver) and lots of DSP-ing if that makes you happy. It's a PC so it will be able to do more internally than AVR (including video processing with MadVR or MPCVR) and so on but you have to build and nurse it. I don't mind and I don't genuinely care about multichannel audio, I do my own 2.2 stereo that way.

 

[Power Pop 23]

Canton sells a small multi-channel amp which likely exceeds your budget:

Smart Amp 5.1 | 04154

Smart Amp 5.1 Smart and wireless with Dolby Atmos Connect your passive speakers and the smart world of streaming: With the powerful Smart Amp 5.1 as a multi-room AV amplifier with Dolby Atmos® technology, up to 6 wired passive speakers (two pairs of spea…

www.canton.de

It is my recollection Canton has been selling multi-channel amplifiers in a similar size for a while. Perhaps a used sample can be had that meets your budget.

 

[Wayne A. Pflughaupt]

Well actually it could be done with a small PC using a PCIe card with optical in and pre-outs, but it's a bit bigger and quite a bit more expensive than a basic soundcard.

You can do a phantom center with that approach?

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[JustAnAudioLover]

You can do a phantom center with that approach?

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Well this should be possible ; you basically get the sound from the optical input, and pass it on to the soundcard to get the 5.1/7.1 line out. But you can do any transform you'd like, be it (P)EQ, virtualization, downmixing, etc.

 

[ZolaIII]

You can do a phantom center with that approach?

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Yes you make impuls alignment in stereo on equal triangle and you have it, until you don't as you move from ideal position or turn your head. You can make very convincing surround out of stereo (for more than 25 years now) Sonitus FX Surround. Of course it doesn't work for music.