Multichannel computer audio solutions

[somebodyelse]

Being a real pain in the ass now but I'm not going to spend a lot of money on something that doesn't have support for all the major operating systems.

Digiface support is landing soon in kernel 6.12:
https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-6.12-Sound-Drivers

 

[krabapple]

Curious if anyone has any advice for non HDMI multichannel computer audio. I'm done with HDMI because I'm sick of having a phantom HDMI monitor, and frankly, HDMI is basically a plague on Earth that only exists to sell pointless encryption hardware to apply DRM.

I know Dante audio setups are an option. I looked at USB DACs, but it seems like one of the few ones out there, the Topping DM7, is discontinued, and their drivers seem flaky anyway.

The goal for this is just to have rock solid multichannel audio on a computer without HDMI. Don't need any Dolby or DTS bullcrap.

? I don't even see what the either/or is here. Dolby and DTS both have lossless versions.

And even the lossy versions can be decoded --and converted to FLAC if you like -- before you output them to your system.

 

[krabapple]

You can't use HDMI for audio only because of its lame dependency on video (driven by DRM).

Display Port, for example, supports mulitchannel audio with a single cable and allows you to separate video and audio. This is because it was designed to actually work and not sell HDMI licenses, etc.

I use HDMI from a laptop to an AVR, and foobar2k (+ WASAPI). The AVR is connected to a TV but the TV absolutely does not have to be on, for multichannel audio to work flawlessly. The TV can be off.

So like Sal, I'm not sure what your problem is with HDMI, other than a 'philosophical' objection.

 

[krabapple]

I think the OP is spot on. Why? There aren't any high performing DACs, processors or interfaces that use HDMI. There are many instances of receivers and processors that sound and measure worse on HDMI than any other input.

That bolded one needs more evidence that you gave.

 

[phofman]

Digiface support is landing soon in kernel 6.12:
https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-6.12-Sound-Drivers

Yeah, but not really vendor-supported

Incredible hats off to Asahi Lina for his achievement. But still I would not go voluntarily for RME on linux.

 

[DWPress]

On Mac I use virtual cable software and an Okto Dac8 Pro to do all kinds of various signal routing to the 8 channels. Bulletproof.

 

[dithered]

I completely agree with all of that, but Dante is just the same.

There are other good, open, standardised interfaces available, like AVB, AES67, Thunderbolt 3 and USB 3, that can carry 16 or 32 channels at 24 bits / 192kHz.

Unfortunately it's Dante that's gaining traction, and Audinate are making a lot of money out of it.

You're right. Dante is basically just the HDMI of audio over IP. All it really has going for it is that at least the audio and video stay separate.

 

[dithered]

I didn't realise that. Dante describe virtual soundcard as "a standard ASIO or WDM Sound device".
If DVS doesn't work, many of the connections and audio interfaces that process multi-channel audio might not work.
AVB and AES67 are rather simpler - have you considered them?
AES/EBU is a simple interface, and something like the Lynx AES16e AES/EBU or RME HDSPe AES 32-Channel AES/EBU PCI Express Cards might do the job.
View attachment 396504View attachment 396505View attachment 396508
Edit: The Marian Clara D might be a better option, as they claim ASIO, MME, WASAPI and WDM compatibility. It's a reasonable price, and AES/EBU is the most compatible physical interface of all.

DVS handles multi channel by basically just giving you more stereo groups with WDM and WASAPI. That's the problem. You need to use ASIO to actually make it behave like a 7.1+ setup.

If you're interested, this is directly from Audinate:

Yes, for multi-channel applications in Windows you will change DVS over to ASIO mode.
WDM mode creates 2 channel pairs because we only support PCM 2 channel audio from Windows driver based applications.
ASIO enabled applications are for professional audio and support multi-channel. Brett Silver Begani Technical Support Specialist

 

[dithered]

Etienne, do you have any idea why they do it? It would seem to me as more programming work to merge the multiple stereo streams into one multichannel output stream for transfer to the device. Or do those devices lack a standard 2-channel USB alternate setting, offering only one multichannel altset, and splitting the multiple channels into several stereo devices spares the manufacturer of the altsetting code in the USB receiver firmware? Or are they really configured as multiple stereo devices and their custom ASIO driver merges the devices into one multichannel device to present? I do not have any to look at its USB configuration dump.

I think it's because they're actually treated like multiple stereo devices instead of a single multichannel device because it's simpler and probably because 9 out of 10 of these audio IP setups are just for pumping elevator music into different rooms in big buildings.

 

[dithered]

I use HDMI from a laptop to an AVR, and foobar2k (+ WASAPI). The AVR is connected to a TV but the TV absolutely does not have to be on, for multichannel audio to work flawlessly. The TV can be off.

So like Sal, I'm not sure what your problem is with HDMI, other than a 'philosophical' objection.

I know the TV can be off but there will still be a phantom display that your mouse cursor gets lost in.

 

[boxerfan88]

I know Dante audio setups are an option. I looked at USB DACs, but it seems like one of the few ones out there, the Topping DM7, is discontinued, and their drivers seem flaky anyway.

The goal for this is just to have rock solid multichannel audio on a computer without HDMI. Don't need any Dolby or DTS bullcrap.

DM7 has both ASIO & WDM drivers.

WDM defaults to 2ch, just need to goto Windows and reconfigure to 8ch.

I’m daily user of DM7, its stable. No freeze, click, pop, or volume resets. Am on latest firmware & driver.

I do come across it for sale occasionally, probably existing inventory out in the marketplace.

 

[krabapple]

I know the TV can be off but there will still be a phantom display that your mouse cursor gets lost in.

We must have very different setups or approaches.

The only display I need is the one on the laptop, where foobar2000 is running*. There is no 'phantom' display involved.

(*and technically, I could control that instance of f2k from a tablet or phone if I wanted to)

 

[StigErik]

I know the TV can be off but there will still be a phantom display that your mouse cursor gets lost in.

No, not necessarily. Simply choose to duplicate screen 1 to screen 2 instead of extending the desktop over the two screens.

 

[phofman]

I think it's because they're actually treated like multiple stereo devices instead of a single multichannel device because it's simpler and probably because 9 out of 10 of these audio IP setups are just for pumping elevator music into different rooms in big buildings.

For IP setups the pairing would be explainable. I was actually talking about USB for which multiple stereo pairs kind of make no practical sense to me.

 

[dithered]

We must have very different setups or approaches.

The only display I need is the one on the laptop, where foobar2000 is running*. There is no 'phantom' display involved.

(*and technically, I could control that instance of f2k from a tablet or phone if I wanted to)

It is not possible to connect an HDMI source to a computer without it also creating a display for it.

 

[dithered]

No, not necessarily. Simply choose to duplicate screen 1 to screen 2 instead of extending the desktop over the two screens.

You can't do that when you have an actual computer monitor where there isn't an equivalent resolution. I have an ultrawide PC monitor so it doesn't work. That's what I mean when I say I want a bullet proof audio-only setup that isn't constrained and requires hacks like cloning displays (which also increases input lag in games).

 

[dithered]

DM7 has both ASIO & WDM drivers.

WDM defaults to 2ch, just need to goto Windows and reconfigure to 8ch.

I’m daily user of DM7, its stable. No freeze, click, pop, or volume resets. Am on latest firmware & driver.

I do come across it for sale occasionally, probably existing inventory out in the marketplace.

I was about to pull the trigger on the DM7 until I found out that it was discontinued. Does anyone know if Topping is going to make another multichannel product?

 

[dualazmak]

I would like to recommend OKTO DAC8PRO in simplest 8-Ch pure USB mode fed by uptream PC via its robust ASIO driver.

In upstream PC, I use JRiver MC as system-wide audio (audio-visual) player feeding 192 kHz or 88.1 kHz 24 bit digital audio into system-wide DSP center EKIO through system-wide ASIO/VASIO/VAIO routing center VB-AUDIO MATRIX.

DSP EKIO feeds DSP-processed (XO/EQ/Gain/Group-Daley/Phae, etc.) digital 8-Ch audio via VB-AUDIO MATRIX into DAC8PRO through single USB 2.0 cable.

If you would be interested, you would please find the details of my PC-DSP-based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier fully active audio system (the latest setup) in my post here on my audio project thread; you will find diagrams of total signal path for your easy at-a-glance understandings as well as detailed diagrams of VB-AUDIO MATRIX configuration.

 

[dualazmak]

If that's accurate, it only has an ASIO driver? If it doesn't have WDM driver support, it's a no go for me. I need it to be able to work with computer games etc.

I believe you can do everything if you would use VB-AUDIO MATRIX as system-wide routing center which also provides 64-Ch virtual I/O audio (VAIO) devices to replace your WDM routings.
VB-AUDIO MATRIX redirects any of the digital audio I/O to any of the available ASIO, VASIO, VAIO channels.

 

[StigErik]

You can't do that when you have an actual computer monitor where there isn't an equivalent resolution. I have an ultrawide PC monitor so it doesn't work. That's what I mean when I say I want a bullet proof audio-only setup that isn't constrained and requires hacks like cloning displays (which also increases input lag in games).

Yes, those two things are true of course.

I use HDMI for audio purposes only (Foobar2000 -> HDMI -> A/V Processor), so I don't care about the display resolution or it's quality.