• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Moondrop x Crinacle DUSK

MacClintock

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
May 24, 2023
Messages
541
Likes
990
Not trying to just defend the Dusk here, but objectively, it's close, but not the same.

Many things in life have diminishing returns beyond a certain level. We're seeing that here.
Diminishing return implies that you get something marginally better for a considerably higher price. Where exactly, talking just of sound quality, is the Dusk better than the 7Hz Zero 2? In the huge treble peak at around 14kHz? If you want different sound signatures, then, as the DSP cable and the app seem to be full of problems, use just ordinary EQ.
 

MacClintock

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
May 24, 2023
Messages
541
Likes
990
I wonder if 2 way, 3 way and N way IEMs would have lower multitone distortion than a single driver would? No one seems to measure this AFAIK.
Since the THD of many cheap IEMs, especially the 1DD ones, is so low, I really don´t expect this to be any issue, it might just interesting to know by it´s own.
 

mc.god

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2019
Messages
345
Likes
463
Location
Roma, IT
My Peace GUI has a bunch of options like this. If you find a measurer you trust you can have most every IEM! The fact that these are based on differences on the same measurement rig make them more dependable. Obviously not perfect, and it doesn't account for things like fit and distortion, but it can give you a good idea if you are going to like something or not as you can switch back and forth quickly, and is a good justification for actually trying it out if you do. In this example I knew the 7Hz Sonus was not for me. I recently read a comment on this site that identified the exact issue I had with it. To a tee!

View attachment 362343
I did the same thing in Easy Effects equalizing the 7Hz Zero to various other models in the price range i was into e found out Sonus as my preferred. Bought them and had the confirmation, in fact I like them even more. The biggest concern was fitting, something that you cannot simulate with eq, but luckily they turned out to be perfect for me.
 

USER

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 30, 2019
Messages
970
Likes
1,614
I did the same thing in Easy Effects equalizing the 7Hz Zero to various other models in the price range i was into e found out Sonus as my preferred. Bought them and had the confirmation, in fact I like them even more. The biggest concern was fitting, something that you cannot simulate with eq, but luckily they turned out to be perfect for me.
This is really the way, isn't it?
 

mc.god

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2019
Messages
345
Likes
463
Location
Roma, IT
This is really the way, isn't it?
Well, eq is free.
Add a superbly low distortion iem that you can eq as much as you wish, like 7Hz Zero / Zero 2, for almost free.
Add reasonably reliable measurements of tons of iems available nowadays, again for free.
Yes, this is the way.
 

Chromatischism

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 5, 2020
Messages
4,809
Likes
3,749
Diminishing return implies that you get something marginally better for a considerably higher price. Where exactly, talking just of sound quality, is the Dusk better than the 7Hz Zero 2? In the huge treble peak at around 14kHz? If you want different sound signatures, then, as the DSP cable and the app seem to be full of problems, use just ordinary EQ.
The Dusk has smoother upper mid-range and treble, and better extension. The bass contour appears a little better and bass impact (as subjectively described, we'll have to wait for someone to test it here) seems better, too.

I agree that I would use regular EQ though if needed since I have a Qudelix 5K. But very few do in the grand scheme of things, and alternatively very few find a way to get EQ working in software (think of the average audiophile IEM buyer) so it makes sense to want to provide something to buyers that gets them there in a plug-and-play fashion.
 

Phorize

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 26, 2019
Messages
1,551
Likes
2,087
Location
U.K
So these new Moondrop IEMs only work as intended with an extremely-ramshackle-borderline-unprofessional app? (I've tried it on Android and no thanks.) They couldn't actually properly tune them even when others have with "lesser" drivers and at rock bottom prices? How are these not their lowest priced products then as they are unpolished on every level? What the heck is going on over there? I'm guessing they want to be like Neumann and Genelec but clearly that is years away for them. Again, every major brand has integrated DSP well wirelessly for many years now along with many great features such as proper fit/seal check (which works really, really well and often catches me by surprise).
It takes alot of time and investment to develop software properly.
 

bilifen

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2023
Messages
7
Likes
2
Location
lurk-town

Leiker535

Active Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2020
Messages
273
Likes
343
No headphone not hooked up to a Smyth A16 Realiser has a soundstage
I can understand this and support the critique when comparing headphones to speakers, it's a whole different game. But when I consider soundstage I refer to something more close to "headstage" rather than a frontal stage set up in front of me. In this instance, critiquing "soundstage" in headphones seems forced and inappropriate, as I clearly perceive differences between iems and, most importantly, headphones. In other words, just because it has no frontal stage doesn't mean it doesn't stage and separate sounds at all.

As you said, fitment plays a huge rule in this, but also your own hrtf. My own critique against headstaging as stated by reviewers is when they try to universalize their own perceptions: it's not the iem that has an inherent big stage, it's that iems curve's interaction with your specific htrf (given, there are more big stage FR than there are others). Another factor that may influence that is the openness of the design.

For me personally, most if not my all iems image perfectly, most likely due to the fact that I like pronounced pinna compensation AND that iems seem to have lesser problems with channel matching than headphones. Still, there are ones that stage bigger than others: my zero2 and b3 eqd to harmanish are intimate and close sounding regarding space, whereas the timeless AE and MD ssr stage almost out of my head, most likely due to insertion depth.
Android phone and USB Audio Player Pro with the added professional tools by Tone Boosters which cost around $10.

I already do, but I prefer doing it with autoEQ or squig prediction then export it to wavelet or peace. It certainly is a neat feature and tool, just be careful not to take the FR differences for granted: as you said, fitment plays a huge role, and given that designs are complex, EQ won't always behave analogically as you expect them to do. As I said, it's very hard bypassing the upper treble swings/reflections/résonances of single DDs. Inversely, some designs like the dusk and b3 use a damper in the bass tube, so a dB changed in EQ most likely won't result in a dB changed in SPL. With this in mind, the only way to make sure the EQ is set properly is to remeasure the FR with a coupler AFTER applying the filters. Oratory is the only one that does this consistently, and crinacle probably went this route when developing and testing the dsp profiles, but you can go down the rabbit hole and buy a coupler yourself, which is something that haunts me from time to time :p
 

Chromatischism

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 5, 2020
Messages
4,809
Likes
3,749
As someone who is using the Crinacle Zero's with this EQ through a Qudelix 5k (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...x-crinacle-zero-iem-review.37380/post-1334957 with filter 5 on), how much of a change would these iems be?
(For my headphones, I use HD800 SDR modded with a slightly modified oratory EQ, if there are other recommendations, please tell me.)
Naturally I'm curious to know, too. Judging from Crin's tunings he seems to have similar taste/hearing as me, plus or minus a bit here and there (neither of us are fans of strict Harman IE 2019). I'm not inclined to spend that much to find out how much of an upgrade it is unless reports are really, really good. I also want to know about comfort--it looks rather large and I wonder if a well-fitting, tuned IEM from another brand would be better overall. Need more information still.
 

MacClintock

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
May 24, 2023
Messages
541
Likes
990
The Dusk has smoother upper mid-range and treble, and better extension. The bass contour appears a little better and bass impact (as subjectively described, we'll have to wait for someone to test it here) seems better, too.
index.php

Where exactly do you see do you see all this? The bass contour appears better? The basses are as identical as one gets from measurements up to 400 Hz (remember, the squiggle at around 150 Hz is a measurement artefact). Smoother upper mid-range? Where ? And the treble extends more, but so much so that it might hurt somebody with good hearing up there.
 

USER

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 30, 2019
Messages
970
Likes
1,614
you can go down the rabbit hole and buy a coupler yourself, which is something that haunts me from time to time :p

I just did for those very reasons, to fine tune things and test minor mods and different ear tips. Don't worry folks, there WILL NOT be another IEM reviewer out there! I am making the bet that one can adjust the better quality 711 clones results reasonably close to Amir's set-up, which is quite good in the grand scheme of things. If it works the way I hope it does, I'll post a guide on this site. Paul Wasabii has been very helpful with advice for recreating his set-up.

The funny thing is that a couple of days after I ordered the coupler, I saw Sean Olive tweeting about the Denon PerL earphones, which measures your ear response and adjusts FR to it! This would be a game changer if it works. There is incredible technology on display here:

 
Last edited:

MacClintock

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
May 24, 2023
Messages
541
Likes
990
As someone who is using the Crinacle Zero's with this EQ through a Qudelix 5k (https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...x-crinacle-zero-iem-review.37380/post-1334957 with filter 5 on), how much of a change would these iems be?
(For my headphones, I use HD800 SDR modded with a slightly modified oratory EQ, if there are other recommendations, please tell me.)
Most likely none, just EQ any IEM with a smooth FR, good fit and low distortion to this graph and you will hear the same.
 

bilifen

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2023
Messages
7
Likes
2
Location
lurk-town
Naturally I'm curious to know, too. Judging from Crin's tunings he seems to have similar taste/hearing as me, plus or minus a bit here and there (neither of us are fans of strict Harman IE 2019). I'm not inclined to spend that much to find out how much of an upgrade it is unless reports are really, really good. I also want to know about comfort--it looks rather large and I wonder if a well-fitting, tuned IEM from another brand would be better overall. Need more information still.
If it's not such a hassle to keep track of, please @ me if you find this to be a good upgrade or find something else to be a good upgrade.
(Really enjoying your EQ, it makes the Zero's comparable to my HD800.)

Most likely none, just EQ any IEM with a smooth FR, good fit and low distortion to this graph and you will hear the same.
I'm not that knowledgeable but I guess because of the place constraints there isn't that much difference between different drivers for iems (after applying EQ) instead of headphones? Can I do that analogy for myself or is that wrong?
 

CedarX

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 1, 2021
Messages
521
Likes
851
Location
USA
The funny thing is that a couple of days after I ordered the coupler, I saw Sean Olive tweeting about the Denon PerL earphones, which measures your ear response and adjusts FR to it! This would be a game changer if it works.
Isn’t it a rebranded Nuratrue TWS? Nura’s HP & TWS were very interesting. I have a Nuraphone HP, and although I like the tactile “shaker” effect, I would not qualify the overall experience as mind blowing.
I’m curious to see what Denon is going to do with these ex-Nura products. A lot of neat ideas!
 

MacClintock

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
May 24, 2023
Messages
541
Likes
990
I'm not that knowledgeable but I guess because of the place constraints there isn't that much difference between different drivers for iems (after applying EQ) instead of headphones? Can I do that analogy for myself or is that wrong?
Even for headphones there is, in principle, no difference of the driver types being used, at least what frequency response is concerned. But usually planar ones have less distortion and are able do deliver more bass. But when you have two heaphones with the same frequency response and distortion levels, you will not be able to hear if it is a planar or dynamic or any other driver type. The main difference in headphones, since they do not bypass the pinna like IEMs, is that good ones are able to create some kind of soundstage, which is almost completely absent in all IEMs.
 

EddNog

Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2024
Messages
86
Likes
81
After reading what everyone had to say here, I ended up deciding to cancel my preorder for the Dusk and instead just using known FR data vs target curves and just applying EQ adjustments in my HiBy R6 Pro II's global parametric EQ. I have no idea how this compares to the actual Dusk since I don't have a pair to access them, but either way my Tangzu x HBB Zetian Wu HeyDay IEMs have never sounded so good, so thanks to all for your advice!

-Ed
 

CedarX

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 1, 2021
Messages
521
Likes
851
Location
USA
After reading what everyone had to say here, I ended up deciding to cancel my preorder for the Dusk and instead just using known FR data vs target curves and just applying EQ adjustments in my HiBy R6 Pro II's global parametric EQ. I have no idea how this compares to the actual Dusk since I don't have a pair to access them, but either way my Tangzu x HBB Zetian Wu HeyDay IEMs have never sounded so good, so thanks to all for your advice!

-Ed
I think it’s the sensible approach. I keep buying headphones, IEMs, gear because… I like it (don’t ask… no rationale!) and because I do buy into *some* of the hype or marketing BS: me always think “this is gonna be the next revolutionary best ever thing” … it’s not…

Dusk’s dual opposite DD and micro-planars are intriguing … but most of the discussions revolve around the DSP cable and I already have several of those FreeDSP cables (love them BTW).
 

EddNog

Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2024
Messages
86
Likes
81
I think it’s the sensible approach. I keep buying headphones, IEMs, gear because… I like it (don’t ask… no rationale!) and because I do buy into *some* of the hype or marketing BS: me always think “this is gonna be the next revolutionary best ever thing” … it’s not…

Dusk’s dual opposite DD and micro-planars are intriguing … but most of the discussions revolve around the DSP cable and I already have several of those FreeDSP cables (love them BTW).
Since I use my HiBy R6 Pro II as my source for all music listening, I am able to consolidate all of my music sources (primarily Apple Music Lossless [high-res]) and files (like my DSD library) into one easy to use place, and simply save different PEQ profiles depending on the chain, so I’ve now three profiles/PEQ curves set up, one for my aforementioned IEMs, one for my cans (Sennheiser x Drop HD6XX) and one for room-correcting my speaker setup (KEF LS50 Metas plus an SVS SB-3000). Just set correct PEQ and gain when using IEMs on the go or cans late at night/in bed, or set the PEQ and place the DAP on my HiBy CR06 dock and control the DAP on my phone or tablet using HiBy Link when listening to my speakers. Life is great!

-Ed
 

Somafunk

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 1, 2021
Messages
1,426
Likes
3,375
Location
Scotland
Since I use my HiBy R6 Pro II as my source for all music listening, I am able to consolidate all of my music sources (primarily Apple Music Lossless [high-res]) and files (like my DSD library) into one easy to use place, and simply save different PEQ profiles depending on the chain, so I’ve now three profiles/PEQ curves set up, one for my aforementioned IEMs, one for my cans (Sennheiser x Drop HD6XX) and one for room-correcting my speaker setup (KEF LS50 Metas plus an SVS SB-3000). Just set correct PEQ and gain when using IEMs on the go or cans late at night/in bed, or set the PEQ and place the DAP on my HiBy CR06 dock and control the DAP on my phone or tablet using HiBy Link when listening to my speakers. Life is great!

-Ed

Same with my Hiby R6 iii, the peq is easy to use and the ability to have multiple presets and swap n‘ change is great

All I now need is for Hiby to hurry up and release the roon app for the player.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom