Minidsp Flex Review (Audio DSP)

[soerenssen]

Note that Dirac will introduce additional delay in the signal. In an AVR this can be compensated with lip-sync, in a real-life venue, not. Depending on use case, that may be an issue.

Delay might be fine, because there won't be any live video show, only music. Do you mean that the delay could potentially affect live mixing?
Just to clarify, the current DSP would be replaced with a new one, that is compatible with some kind of a room correction solution that could make the measurement and setup process faster. Dirac was just one idea, there might be better options out there.

 

[ehabheikal]

I want to buy miniDSP flex and use it as preamp for my 2.1 system.
Sources are analog (turntable) and digital.

Is it the best device for that? Or should I consider other options? Wiim Pro Plus? Matrix mini-i 4?

I have SMSL Su 6 DAC that looks like it measures better than FLEX. But is it anything audible?

Thank you.

The flex is in a different class than the dac and a few sinad at those already exellent levels will not make a difference.
As far as i know felx does 2.2 not 2.1 except if you use a y cable to merge the signals of both subs to one.

 

[AaronJ]

- Can the Flex be used as a secondary volume limiter (set to a safe volume level, to avoid overdriving the power amps)?

I would not use it for this. Any digitally controlled volume should always have some analog attenuation before the power amp.

 

[Fred H]

Not my experience; 6 years daily use of digitally controlled volume without any analog attenuation with no problems. First with a Benchmark DAC3, then a Topping D30 Pro and now with a miniDSP Flex. All have always remembered the last volume setting.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Not my experience; 6 years daily use of digitally controlled volume without any analog attenuation with no problems. First with a Benchmark DAC3, then a Topping D30 Pro and now with a miniDSP Flex. All have always remembered the last volume setting.

Yep been doing this for at least ten years. Never had a problem. But of course among thousands you find one or the other odd case on the internet, which caused problems. I am happy to keep playing my odds ;-)

Last one I read about here with a problem, did a firmware update. Well I would simply keep the power amps off until the firmware update has run and the device rebooted and checks ok. Problem avoided. But well…

 

[MAB]

Yep been doing this for at least ten years. Never had a problem. But of course among thousands you find one or the other odd case on the internet, which caused problems. I am happy to keep playing my odds ;-)

Last one I read about here with a problem, did a firmware update. Well I would simply keep the power amps off until the firmware update has run and the device rebooted and checks ok. Problem avoided. But well…

I use the volume control directly on a Flex Balanced, Flex Eight, and SHD without any issues ever. Same for the 4x10HD I used to use.

My Sonic Frontiers Line-3 also had a microprocessor controlled volume, and aside from never having a glitch it intelligently muted the volume when switching sources. Same for my old Proceed DAC.

And it occurs to me all of my TV and car stereo appliances are the same, unless I sit on the TV remote…

I think the properly designed digital volume user interface has happened.

 

[soerenssen]

As I mentioned in my previous post the Flex does Dirac on the input, therefore you will not be able to apply independent correction to each output. This is clear from the user manual which shows Dirac on the 2 channel input upstream of the routing matrix / xover / PEQ.

View attachment 204478

Michael

What if I do the Dirac+DLBC processing on a PC (using a desktop licence), connected via USB? Can it work as a multichannel DAC via USB Audio bi-directionally (like the Okto in AES/USB mode) to apply Dirac on the PC on all the connected sources (via spdif, coax, etc.)?

 

[antcollinet]

What if I do the Dirac+DLBC processing on a PC (using a desktop licence), connected via USB? Can it work as a multichannel DAC via USB Audio bi-directionally (like the Okto in AES/USB mode) to apply Dirac on the PC on all the connected sources (via spdif, coax, etc.)?

No - it only has stereo input regardless of the input. It can only take two channels from USB.

 

[mdsimon2]

As @antcollinet mentioned, the Flex appears as a 4 channel input / 2 channel output USB device, so you won't be able to implement DLBC on a PC and use it as a multichannel DAC.

The Flex HT and HTx are 8 channel USB DACs and I imagine appear as 8 channel input / 8 channel output USB devices. These should be able to function like the Okto, where they can be used as both a capture and playback device in a software DSP setup as a result of the bi-directional USB audio. Using these devices in such a way brings some usability improvements over the Okto, they have more inputs and the built in ASRC keeps things simple as they can easily handle sources of a variety of sample rates.

The challenge I see with DLBC is you need some way to capture your input signal, route it to DLBC. I have not used DLBC so I am not sure how difficult this would be in practice.

EDIT: I don't think this will work, even with the HT or HTx. The issue is the input / output channel weirdness mentioned in my first sentence. The "inputs" are already processed through the miniDSP and you are basically capturing the output channels. In my experience with the 2X4HD it is NOT possible to use another software (like CamillaDSP) to route the TOSLINK input to the analog outputs for example, which is what you would want to do with DLBC.

Michael

 

[soerenssen]

As @antcollinet mentioned, the Flex appears as a 4 channel input / 2 channel output USB device, so you won't be able to implement DLBC on a PC and use it as a multichannel DAC.

The Flex HT and HTx are 8 channel USB DACs and I imagine appear as 8 channel input / 8 channel output USB devices. These should be able to function like the Okto, where they can be used as both a capture and playback device in a software DSP setup as a result of the bi-directional USB audio. Using these devices in such a way brings some usability improvements over the Okto, they have more inputs and the built in ASRC keeps things simple as they can easily handle sources of a variety of sample rates.

The challenge I see with DLBC is you need some way to capture your input signal, route it to DLBC. I have not used DLBC so I am not sure how difficult this would be in practice.

EDIT: I don't think this will work, even with the HT or HTx. The issue is the input / output channel weirdness mentioned in my first sentence. The "inputs" are already processed through the miniDSP and you are basically capturing the output channels. In my experience with the 2X4HD it is NOT possible to use another software (like CamillaDSP) to route the TOSLINK input to the analog outputs for example, which is what you would want to do with DLBC.

Michael

I would probably go for the 8-channel Flex HT or HTx because of HDMI sources and use eARC with the TV (acting as a HDMI Hub).
One of the sources would be my Wiim Pro for example, connected via digital coax to the Flex HT. I would use a VST host (Element or Voicemeeter Banana's 8x8 matrix app) to wire the digital coax input to the (virtual) Dirac processor and route the output to the Flex analog outs, using ASIO driver if possible.

 

[mdsimon2]

I would probably go for the 8-channel Flex HT or HTx because of HDMI sources and use eARC with the TV (acting as a HDMI Hub).
One of the sources would be my Wiim Pro for example, connected via digital coax to the Flex HT. I would use a VST host (Element or Voicemeeter Banana's 8x8 matrix app) to wire the digital coax input to the (virtual) Dirac processor and route the output to the Flex analog outs, using ASIO driver if possible.

I don't think it is possible unless the HT/HTx function differently than every other miniDSP device.

You could use the HT as the front end of your system, basically as SPDIF/TOSLINK/HDMI to USB device handling volume control and source selection. You would then use another multichannel USB DAC as an output device. This would be a good way to handle a variety of digital sources and be able to implement DLBC on a computer. This is also not possible as the Flex HT/HTx lack bi-directional USB audio -> #30.

Other folks (including me) have run similar setups with the SHD Studio and 2x4HD/DDRC-24 as front ends in a software DSP system with a different multichannel USB DAC on the backend. It works well.

Michael

 

[Cassadamius]

I'm running Qobuz thru an older MacBook Pro via USB > Topping DX3 Pro+ via RCA > power amp. Is there any reason to get the balanced Flex over the analog? And is the Flex still a good buy considering it's going on two years old? I'm looking for bass management with my sub, EQ, and Dirac.

 

[antcollinet]

I'm running Qobuz thru an older MacBook Pro via USB > Topping DX3 Pro+ via RCA > power amp. Is there any reason to get the balanced Flex over the analog? And is the Flex still a good buy considering it's going on two years old? I'm looking for bass management with my sub, EQ, and Dirac.

Does your power amp have balanced inputs? Or is there any chance in the future of upgrading to one that has? Or to powered speakers?

If you answer yes to any of those, at least consider the balanced Flex. (I have the balanced currently into an unbalanced AVR - but may will upgrade to a balanced amp in the medium term)

 

[rainbowzebra]

Greetings. I am considering adding a MiniDSP Flex to a 2.1 stereo system to help integrate my subwoofer and to add room correction. Inputs in the final system would include a turntable, blue tooth for streaming from a computer/phone, and connection to a television. The only amplifier in the system is an old Pioneer SA-9500II, which has a built-in phono preamp and can accept line level RCA inputs from my TV and other sources. The Pioneer's speaker terminals feed my powered subwoofer, which has a built-in crossover panel, and then two passive LR speakers.

I am trying to figure out if there is a way to implement the MiniDSP in this system so I can use its functionality with my turntable and other line level sources without needing to buy a new phono preamp. If I continue to use the Pioneer's phono preamp, the MiniDSP would seemingly need to go inbetween the pre-out and power amp in ports on the Pioneer. That would take care of the turntable, but would the Pioneer also be able to process USB/Digital sources from the MiniDSP? It seems no, but perhaps I'm not thinking through the Pioneer's circuitry correctly. Alternatively, with a new phono preamp in between the turntable and MiniDSP, the Mini could connect to one of the Pioneer's line level inputs and I could play all sources from Mini--turntable included--by keeping the Pioneer's source selector on that line level source (Tuner or Aux).

Has anyone implemented the MiniDSP with a similar integrated amp with a built-in phono preamp? Let me know if there is a solution I'm not thinking of. Or perhaps it's just time to get a new power amp

 

[antcollinet]

Greetings. I am considering adding a MiniDSP Flex to a 2.1 stereo system to help integrate my subwoofer and to add room correction. Inputs in the final system would include a turntable, blue tooth for streaming from a computer/phone, and connection to a television. The only amplifier in the system is an old Pioneer SA-9500II, which has a built-in phono preamp and can accept line level RCA inputs from my TV and other sources. The Pioneer's speaker terminals feed my powered subwoofer, which has a built-in crossover panel, and then two passive LR speakers.

I am trying to figure out if there is a way to implement the MiniDSP in this system so I can use its functionality with my turntable and other line level sources without needing to buy a new phono preamp. If I continue to use the Pioneer's phono preamp, the MiniDSP would seemingly need to go inbetween the pre-out and power amp in ports on the Pioneer. That would take care of the turntable, but would the Pioneer also be able to process USB/Digital sources from the MiniDSP? It seems no, but perhaps I'm not thinking through the Pioneer's circuitry correctly. Alternatively, with a new phono preamp in between the turntable and MiniDSP, the Mini could connect to one of the Pioneer's line level inputs and I could play all sources from Mini--turntable included--by keeping the Pioneer's source selector on that line level source (Tuner or Aux).

Has anyone implemented the MiniDSP with a similar integrated amp with a built-in phono preamp? Let me know if there is a solution I'm not thinking of. Or perhaps it's just time to get a new power amp

Either - You will need a phono preamp, so you can feed the turntable into the MiniDSP.

Then BT to mini dsp
TV to mini DSP (if you have a digitial out from the tv - eg toslink)

Analogue from the Mini DSP to the amp for main speakrs, and to the sub from the thrid output.


Or - as you say if your amp has pre-out, power in. Put the mini DSP in that loop. Yes, in that mode, anything output from the MiniDSP will go to the power amp stage. But then you will need to use the volume of the MiniDSP, with the amp volume turned up relatively high so the amp sources are not to quiet - or you have to turn the minidsp up/down depending on which source you are using.

 

[Chagall]

Greetings. I am considering adding a MiniDSP Flex to a 2.1 stereo system to help integrate my subwoofer and to add room correction. Inputs in the final system would include a turntable, blue tooth for streaming from a computer/phone, and connection to a television. The only amplifier in the system is an old Pioneer SA-9500II, which has a built-in phono preamp and can accept line level RCA inputs from my TV and other sources. The Pioneer's speaker terminals feed my powered subwoofer, which has a built-in crossover panel, and then two passive LR speakers.

I am trying to figure out if there is a way to implement the MiniDSP in this system so I can use its functionality with my turntable and other line level sources without needing to buy a new phono preamp. If I continue to use the Pioneer's phono preamp, the MiniDSP would seemingly need to go inbetween the pre-out and power amp in ports on the Pioneer. That would take care of the turntable, but would the Pioneer also be able to process USB/Digital sources from the MiniDSP? It seems no, but perhaps I'm not thinking through the Pioneer's circuitry correctly. Alternatively, with a new phono preamp in between the turntable and MiniDSP, the Mini could connect to one of the Pioneer's line level inputs and I could play all sources from Mini--turntable included--by keeping the Pioneer's source selector on that line level source (Tuner or Aux).

Has anyone implemented the MiniDSP with a similar integrated amp with a built-in phono preamp? Let me know if there is a solution I'm not thinking of. Or perhaps it's just time to get a new power amp

Does your turntable have a built-in phono stage? If it doesn't I would just buy a separate phono preamp.
Flex needs to be your preamp - volume control, source selector, crossover for mains and sub, and room control. Pioneer becomes your power amp.

 

[antcollinet]

Does your turntable have a built-in phono stage? If it doesn't I would just buy a separate phono preamp.
Flex needs to be your preamp - volume control, source selector, crossover for mains and sub, and room control. Pioneer becomes your power amp.

View attachment 332183

Nice pictures neatly showing the options.

Third option would be the same as your second image, but replace the Phono preamp with the the amplifiers phono input, routing the pre-out from the amp into the flex.

EDIT : @rainbowzebra , you should be aware that for anything going into the power input of your amp, the amp volume control will not apply. So if you don't use the MiniDSP volume control to turn down the MiniDSP sources, then you will be playing at full volume. Until you get used to it, make sure the miniDSP is turned down all the way before putting power on the amp.

 

[Chagall]

Third option would be the same as your second image, but replace the Phono preamp with the the amplifiers phono input, routing the pre-out from the amp into the flex.

Third option

 

[antcollinet]

Third option

View attachment 332187

Thanks - much easier to understand than my text description.

 

[rainbowzebra]

Thanks to everyone for the responses and illustrations, very helpful! The lack of volume control on the Pioneer for sources going straight into the power in was the piece that was not connecting for me. I've only ever used an integrated amp before.