Marantz SR6014 AVR Review

[peng]

Amir, if the 6014 is still hooked up to the AP, could you please measure the analog input (CD or any should be the same) to find out if it does not get digitized only because you selected speakers to "large" with no subwoofer and/or Audyssey off. I suspect Denon/Marantz might have been smart enough to allow stereo mode to still bypass the ADC unless the subwoofer, or Audyssey, or both are used. Just my guess but it sounds logical to me based on your findings.

If its already packed then may be you can do this verification test on the 3700 or 6700?

 

[Brian6751]

This is the much touted Marantz "MUSICALITY"

This is why I started preferring Denon. I dont like the Marantz "sound". I bought and sold a sr8012 because of this reason. It had good power but added "warmth" to the sound. Obviously a lot of people like that warm sound but I am not one of them.

Thanks Amir!

 

[scooter]

I’m more than happy to let the AVR handle surround and ceiling duty, eq and all preamp requirements, and help it out by getting a good 3 channel amp

Since I've switched to the dual subs, I cannot drive my 100W RMS Yamaha NS-777 tower speakers with 80W per channel AVR to hear any distortion, and I've to admit I like listening very loud.
You didn't mention the speakers being used, but are you sure 3060 cannot handle them easily without external amplification?

 

[peng]

This is the much touted Marantz "MUSICALITY"

This is why I started preferring Denon. I dont like the Marantz "sound". I bought and sold a sr8012 because of this reason. It had good power but added "warmth" to the sound. Obviously a lot of people like that warm sound but I am not one of them.

Thanks Amir!

I would think (just being sarcastic..) HDAM would add some harmonics to provide the so called Marantz "warm, golden" sound signature, but there are two counter arguments we have so far, sarcasm aside.

1) The slimline series have no HDAMs, so the audio signal path are virtually identical between comparable slimline to Denon AVR-X1600H.
2) Amir's measurements show more 3rd harmonics and there are no signs of harmonic contents (lower order even harmonics?) that the believers believe are responsible for the warmth.

Edit: "no" was missing, what a serious mistake that was!

 

[Brian6751]

I would think (just being sarcastic..) HDAM would add some harmonics to provide the so called Marantz "warm, golden" sound signature, but there are two counter arguments we have so far, sarcasm aside.

1) The slimline series have no HDAMs, so the audio signal path are virtually identical between comparable slimline to Denon AVR-X1600H.
2) Amir's measurements show more 3rd harmonics and there are signs of harmonic contents (lower order even harmonics?) that the believers believe are responsible for the warmth.

My thoughts are that HDAM doesnt actually do much of anything and the warmth is added right where Amir is measuring it.

You ask people if they like the warm sound of a proprietary component, they will say YES
Ask the same people if they like the sound of distortion from purposely bad design choices, they will say HELL NO

 

[Gedeon]

The warmth signature is provided by slow-rolll-off filter.

But we don't know if Audyssey calibration compensates that filter.

 

[Brian6751]

The warmth signature is provided by slow-rolll-off filter.

But we don't know if Audyssey calibration compensates that filter.

Its from both the roll off and the distortion. From my experience, the warmth does not go away after Audyssey

PS: It wouldnt make sense to roll off the top end and then have Audyssey boost it back up. Not to mention, you run the risk of clipping sooner because of the boost. Audyssey doesnt usually boost much. Mostly cuts

 

[pozz]

These AVR threads are becoming serious QC reports.

 

[SimpleTheater]

Since I've switched to the dual subs, I cannot drive my 100W RMS Yamaha NS-777 tower speakers with 80W per channel AVR to hear any distortion, and I've to admit I like listening very loud.
You didn't mention the speakers being used, but are you sure 3060 cannot handle them easily without external amplification?

I don’t want to hijack this thread so I’ll keep my answer brief. I have easy to drive JBL 3067’s, and I’m currently running a 4-channel amp for the ceiling speakers. However the JBL’s aren’t as musical as I would like and one day I plan on getting new speakers, so I’m preparing for the future. This is why I’m in no rush to buy something new.

 

[Castortroy3]

I have been following the 4700h thread and I just realized that I have my system set to 5.2.0. in the speaker selection config it asks for surrounds and I selected none for the extra two rears. I should probably be including the additional two rears so they are not set to none (basically have them on but they won't be connected) Am I understanding that correctly to work around the bug?

 

[MarkyM]

Thank you for finally testing and comparing a Marantz (with that extra "HDAM" circuit) to the equivalent Denon.

I have been saying for years now that the "HDAM" circuit seems to do nothing but add distortion & noise.

Back in 2017 when I was looking to purchase a new AVR, I actually bought the service manuals for the Denon X3400H (which I ended up buying) and the "equivalent" Marantz. The schematics showed that the "HDAM" circuit is in addition to, not in place of the existing circuits. In other words, all of the circuits in the Denon are still present in the Marantz and the HDAM board follows them, driving the preamp outputs and the internal amps instead of the volume control chip. I thought, OK, well maybe this adds some valuable output buffering/impedance improvements when driving external amps, especially with long cable runs. Unfortunately, this does not even seem to be the case. Interesting!

I didn't need more than about 1.4 volts to drive my Carver M1.0t amp, and I didn't have a long cable run, so I went with the Denon. That tiny front panel display and the higher price of the Marantz put me off as well.

 

[A.West]

I'm a 6014 owner using it entirely for multichannel in a 5.2 format, all external hypex nc502mp amplification and self powered subs.
It actually sounds pretty great to my ears.
Practical question- how much is a down mix to 5 channel hurting me? What kind of SINAD is coming out of my center channel rca out in 5 channel simultaneous mode? I bet that's a more frequent case for this unit than stereo.
Would I actually hear a noticeable difference were I to move to the best testing unit for multichannel? (HTP-1?)

 

[peng]

I'm a 6014 owner using it entirely for multichannel in a 5.2 format, all external hypex nc502mp amplification and self powered subs.
It actually sounds pretty great to my ears.
Practical question- how much is a down mix to 5 channel hurting me? What kind of SINAD is coming out of my center channel rca out in 5 channel simultaneous mode? I bet that's a more frequent case for this unit than stereo.
Would I actually hear a noticeable difference were I to move to the best testing unit for multichannel? (HTP-1?)

I think you may have your answer in post#241 if you are using HDMI input.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...on-avr-x4700-avr-review-updated.14493/page-13

 

[Koeitje]

HDAM, does that stand for Harmonic Distortion Addition Machine?

 

[rxp]

Please do

Thinking it over... the problem is I need the input to run through the DAC in the SR6011 because of Auddssey. The only way I can compare is without Auddssey and with - the bass is going to be a dead give away and/or make the CD input way worse anyway. Since I only run room correction to 250hz - I could compute some filters with REW - but it's such a big project.

Really frustrating this - I thought I was done with any future AVR purchasing. I've been more sensible recently - if I don't hear an issue then so be it - but this has got my OCD on audio going again!

Is there a psycho-acoustic model of the perceptability of SINAD? Could I model it over a pair of headphones - i.e. chose an ideal headphone DAC and artificially introduce SINAD at higher levels until I can notice it? If the Marantz's SINAD is lower than the test over headphones then so be it.

 

[frangle]

Just remembered, Denon needs to deal with the heat issue @amirm has noticed on all 3 of his Denon/Marantz reviews. That worries me.

Heat issue = ECO mode off. 3600 and I guess others don't even get warm with it on.

 

[Gedeon]

Thank you for finally testing and comparing a Marantz (with that extra "HDAM" circuit) to the equivalent Denon.

I have been saying for years now that the "HDAM" circuit seems to do nothing but add distortion & noise.

Back in 2017 when I was looking to purchase a new AVR, I actually bought the service manuals for the Denon X3400H (which I ended up buying) and the "equivalent" Marantz. The schematics showed that the "HDAM" circuit is in addition to, not in place of the existing circuits. In other words, all of the circuits in the Denon are still present in the Marantz and the HDAM board follows them, driving the preamp outputs and the internal amps instead of the volume control chip. I thought, OK, well maybe this adds some valuable output buffering/impedance improvements when driving external amps, especially with long cable runs. Unfortunately, this does not even seem to be the case. Interesting!

I didn't need more than about 1.4 volts to drive my Carver M1.0t amp, and I didn't have a long cable run, so I went with the Denon. That tiny front panel display and the higher price of the Marantz put me off as well.

With which Marantz did you compare the X3400h ?

 

[peng]

The warmth signature is provided by slow-rolll-off filter.

But we don't know if Audyssey calibration compensates that filter.

I doubt that too because:
a) My much older AV8801 did not use the slow off filter, a different DAC too with similar specs otherwise. Yet it, along with the AVRs of the same model years were still considered by user, potential buyers as the "warm" sound versions of Denon's so called "crisp" signature.
b) How many people who believe in the Marantz warmth as real, could hear the slight drop from 10 kHz, down by less than 0.5 dB at around 15 kHz and only down 2.5 dB at 20 kHz.
c) That filter choice has no effects on analog inputs, yet I have the impression that's where the believers/audiophiles report most warmth being perceived.

So I think it is just Placebo>hearsay>expectation, then back to Placebo that resulted in the perception of the "warmth".

 

[Sonny1]

Oh man, I’m disappointed. Love the look of these receivers but the performance is unacceptable. Thanks Amirm for another great review.

 

[peng]

HDAM, does that stand for Harmonic Distortion Addition Machine?

Machine, I thought it was Module