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Marantz AV8805A Review (AV Processor)

stevenswall

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-looking at the amp measurements that Amir did, are the poor? Maybe average?
-RCA out doesn’t necessarily mean hiss does it? Conversely, XLR won’t necessarily mean it won’t hiss, will it? I’ve used some rca to active speakers and in my case seemed just fine.

Yes, if the source hisses, there will be hiss. XLR eliminates external sources of hiss and locks in... Much preferred connector in my opinion. Poor amps because they don't provide much power, aren't matched per driver (and so are limited to passive speakers without doing electrical work,) and I've experienced broken all in ones... I've never had an active speaker with a broken amp or blown driver, or seen one in real life.
 

RichB

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I have not seen any actual measurements with all channels measured simultaneously. Based on specs and schematics, block diagrams I would say with confidence that they would perform in the same consistent manner over all channels. The same could not be said for some other brands, such as certain Yamaha, anthem models, based on specs.

In this case, this is a processor only. Still, we have no measurements of the center and surround channels nor do we have measurements of processing engaged.
I no longer own an AV8801, services to correct to multiple trigger and a power connector failure.

Unless we know more about the architecture of the processors, I don't think you can assume that other channels match the mains.

- Rich
 
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peng

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In this case, this is a processor only. Still, we have no measurements of the center and surround channels nor do we have measurements of processing engaged.
I no longer own an AV8805, services to corr3ect to multiple trigger and a power connector failure.

Unless we know more about the architecture of the processors, I don't think you can assume that other channels match the mains.

- Rich

I am only talking about SINAD or the preamp/DAC though. For that, we know the left, right and center have been measured, and we know the parts and circuitry are identical for all channels excluding the sub channels.
 

respice finem

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I'd call that a legacy AVR, since it is trying to fit a ton of channels of poor amplification and archaic connectors into the unit, and the unit in this review provides non-hissing connectors for modern active speaker systems.
Never heard a hissing connector ;) but seriously, XLR is a very good standard, but in this case it helps only so much if it measures worse than the cinch in the other one - maybe unless you need to run very long connections.
 

jam

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I no longer own an AV8805, services to corr3ect to multiple trigger and a power connector failure.
Rich

Rich, I hope you didn't buy each successive iteration of AV880x. I remember when you owned the AV8801, as I did, and we would exchange comments on the AVS forum owner's thread. If I remember correctly, you also had an Oppo BDP-105 and you preferred the sound directly from the Oppo's analog outputs than through the AV8801's DACs.
 

Dj7675

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In this case, this is a processor only. Still, we have no measurements of the center and surround channels nor do we have measurements of processing engaged.
I no longer own an AV8805, services to corr3ect to multiple trigger and a power connector failure.

Unless we know more about the architecture of the processors, I don't think you can assume that other channels match the mains.

- Rich
I would like to see measurements with processing engaged with at least each brand to see how it affects measurements. It would be interesting to see the different brands with EQ engaged and see if it varies by brand or number of channels etc. If bench tests/measurements worsen quite a bit with EQ engaged, it would seem to be a good reason for better performance.
 

RichB

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Rich, I hope you didn't buy each successive iteration of AV880x. I remember when you owned the AV8801, as I did, and we would exchange comments on the AVS forum owner's thread. If I remember correctly, you also had an Oppo BDP-105 and you preferred the sound directly from the Oppo's analog outputs than through the AV8801's DACs.

My bad, I had the AV8801, not the AV8005.
Unless there is overwhelming measurements and reviews, I'll not be considering a Marantz processors again.

- Rich
 
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Louie

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Hi Amirm, Can you help me understand the DAC filter output response measurements? As the source test signal is 44.1K samples, wouldn't the signal be already band limited to 22Khz to avoid aliasing and would not be flat to 50-100Khz to the output filter? Thus when looking at the filter output measurements, would it be combined response of source and output filtering? In the case of this Marantz, can one conclude there is no output filter and is just source filtering as it is like minimum 6db/oct?
 

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The Emotiva TMC-1 is basically the same price and has 16 channels of processing and better measurements. Like I mentioned I don’t think there’s a huge difference between many of these units.

Yes denon is better but it seems most of these units whether it’s separates or all in one seem to have poor performance on paper. However I can’t say and this was mentioned previously that you would even be able to spot out the differences even on blind testing the receivers.

Second, Amir just released his speaker review review and even stated without listening to one speaker it makes it very difficult to notice what you have.. add a second speaker for stereo and it’s even worse. And last the 5 channel listening test is almost impossible to tell any differences cause the sound is coming from everywhere and just melds together.

So for me it seems to make sense. I’ve never owned a home theater prior to the one I have now so I have no base line. To me it sounds amazing and I have the 3 front channels amped on there own. It sounds better than a movie theater to me when it comes to loudness and how encompassing it is.
I do agree that when listening to movies / TV multichannel material, most of these systems can end up sounding very similar, regardless of specs. In many cases it comes down to Audyssey and that calibration (and I've had some bad calibrations here and there).

That Emotiva RMC-1 had all kinds of firmware issues. When first announced, I was considering purchasing that unit. I quickly stopped following it when issues dragged on forever and promised features were missing and not being delivered. I don't want to pick on Emotiva (since all the manufacturers have problems), but Emotiva's problems seemed worst than most. I think the review sample Amir tested still had all kinds of problems.

Which gets back to party of what I commented about.

I would like quality. I've moved the goalposts a bit to include firmware, but that's a major part of these receivers. But, I'd still like the hardware quality to match.

And in my case I don't use 80% of the Receiver's features, so I'd exchange most of those features for rock solid functionality, and better specs in a heartbeat.
 

Bestman

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I am new to this forum. I have been in this hobby for 40 years. One thing I have found is your ears are the best measure of quality and the best arbiter of what to buy. Buying and creating "hifi" is different than "home theatre". What most people do now is try to have the best of both. Some would use measurements here to somewhat guide them but mostly I think they are just trying to validate their purchase decisions. Let me say that we are impacted by budgets and wives that also impact those decisions. I happen to be lucky enough to have a family room where "hifi" happens and a dedicated home theatre where theatre things happen. For hifi, I use a Mcintosh MX122 and a MC257 and MC312 Mcintosh amp with Wilson Sabrina mains and Watch channel 3 center. For the theatre, a Marantz 7705 and a Outlaws 7 channel amp. with Focal Electra Mains, Center, Surrounds and MartinLogan Sub. Over the decades and IMO, the speakers make the largest difference in sound quality. Using a processor vs a receiver lowers noise, minimizes heat, and that extends component life. Before the 7705 I used the 8801 and it was very good to my ears. Other factors impact the theatre experience - room setup, size, width, ceiling, fabrics or lack of them, subwoofer, etc. But bottom line, the environment drives your decisions much like buying a camera is driven by needs that will be utilized. Guiding your purchases based on measured but inaudible criteria is like an amateur photographer buying a Canon R5 for running on auto with a point and shoot configuration. There is no audible difference between a Marantz 8015 and an 8805a or a Denon 8500. There is a difference in heat, noise, hum, and their will be a difference in costs of installing dedicated circuits for amps, and their will be obsolescence issues every 6-7 years. There are people who can blast their sound levels and people who can't because of the environment - home vs condo/apartment. So buy what you need for the near term and don't worry about specs because what is the best thing today will not be in 2 years but will you hear it is the question. I have read analysis from England where a sound engineer examined how much sound occurred at 30hz, at 40hz, 50hz, 60hz and beyond. There is hardly any sound at all below 41hz, virtually nothing. How many people will listen with their friends or families a movie or stereo sound beyond 88db? What is audible is your key measure not anything else. For me, I buy the best I need. Then I backfill to secondary rooms or sell equipment just after the next major format shift. This may help some do what's right for them.
 
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amirm

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Hi Amirm, Can you help me understand the DAC filter output response measurements? As the source test signal is 44.1K samples, wouldn't the signal be already band limited to 22Khz to avoid aliasing and would not be flat to 50-100Khz to the output filter?
Good question! What you state is indeed a major restriction AP software religiously enforces. It won't let me sweep past the half sampling rate which would tell us nothing. To get around this, I use white noise as the source. White noise in theory has infinite bandwidth so we can use it as a source and excite frequencies outside of Nyquist. This doesn't look pretty however as the output would be quite noisy. To get around that, I use heavy averaging which reduces it to the thick lines you see.

And to be clear, the source signal is synthetically (computer) generated is it is not subject to sampling theory. The pixels you see on this screen go from white to black in a pixel width which also violates sampling theory. But a computer has no trouble creating them.
 
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amirm

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I have read analysis from England where a sound engineer examined how much sound occurred at 30hz, at 40hz, 50hz, 60hz and beyond. There is hardly any sound at all below 41hz, virtually nothing.
??? I have hundreds of music tracks with such spectrum (and there is plenty in movies). Countless ones push down to 20 Hz and lower. I know because I have a real-time spectrum analyzer on my desktop DAC. And boy is it a joy to listen to such content with deep sub-bass. Few things put a smile on my face like these! :)
 

Jbrunwa

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??? I have hundreds of music tracks with such spectrum (and there is plenty in movies). Countless ones push down to 20 Hz and lower. I know because I have a real-time spectrum analyzer on my desktop DAC. And boy is it a joy to listen to such content with deep sub-bass. Few things put a smile on my face like these! :)

Bass notes can go pretty low, on the piano A0 is 27.5 Hz. Who cant hear that? Are they saying we only hear overtones?
 

respice finem

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Organ can go even lower, or electronic music, or LFE in movies... That said, it can be very difficult, in an average listening room, to have really deep, but clean bass - not even because of amplification/loudspeaker limits, but simply resonances from furniture and such.
 
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Pdxwayne

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Organ can go even lower, or electronic music, or LFE in movies... That said, it can be very difficult, in an average listening room, to have really deep, but clean bass - not even because of amplification/loudspeaker limits, but simply resonances from furniture and such.
I like nice, clean feel of bass, not just hear them, but feel them cleanly with my body too. Subwoofers' quality do make a difference in how clean I can feel the notes. I just got a second Paradigm Siesmic 110 10" sealed sub. Having two nice subs make a difference in the "feels" part for music.
: )
 

Jbrunwa

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I like nice, clean feel of bass, not just hear them, but feel them cleanly with my body too. Subwoofers' quality do make a difference in how clean I can feel the notes. I just got a second Paradigm Siesmic 110 10" sealed sub. Having two nice subs make a difference in the "feels" part for music.
: )
In any event, IMO the Marantz prepro offers poorer performance at similar price point to Denon 8500. So they use the same engine, remove the amplifiers, replace the nice front panel display with a circle you need a telescope to read, add circuitry that reduces performance and balanced outs that most people can do without unless there is a great distance between prepro and amp. Tell me again would I should buy that?
 

Masza

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Good question! What you state is indeed a major restriction AP software religiously enforces. It won't let me sweep past the half sampling rate which would tell us nothing. To get around this, I use white noise as the source. White noise in theory has infinite bandwidth so we can use it as a source and excite frequencies outside of Nyquist. This doesn't look pretty however as the output would be quite noisy. To get around that, I use heavy averaging which reduces it to the thick lines you see.

And to be clear, the source signal is synthetically (computer) generated is it is not subject to sampling theory. The pixels you see on this screen go from white to black in a pixel width which also violates sampling theory. But a computer has no trouble creating them.

How can you feed LPCM sampled at 44.1 kHz containing whitenoise to a DAC and exceed 22.05 kHz in that digital data? Output may exceed that depending on the DAC reconstruction filter and analog signal path interference?

These units may re-sample their input to a single rate which may also cause aliaising. Audyssey, which this processor has, uses 48 kHz if I recall. Pure audio/direct may disable that re-sampling. But does the DAC itself upsample everything before DA conversion...
 

sarumbear

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I have read analysis from England where a sound engineer examined how much sound occurred at 30hz, at 40hz, 50hz, 60hz and beyond. There is hardly any sound at all below 41hz, virtually nothing.
Please pass us that source but before that just think for a moment; have you ever been to a big church or cathedral and heard the organ play? Or heard the bottom four keys on a concert-grand piano? Or heard the bass guitar's lowest two notes? Or even the lowest note of a tuba?

All of those are below 41Hz! An organ can go as low as 20.6Hz and a Piano as low as 27.5Hz.

Instrument_Frequency_Chart.jpg
 
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