Marantz AV8805A Review (AV Processor)

[Deleted member 30699]

“Atmos for home in films has only 1 bed channel in LFE and usually 11 dynamic objects. In Atmos games ISF (Intermediate Spatial format) is used, that supports 32 total active objects (for 7.1.4 bed 20 additional dynamic objects can be active[8]). Each object specifies its apparent source location in the theater, as a set of three-dimensional rectangular coordinates relative to the defined audio channel locations and theater boundaries.

(For home Atmos, you have the base TrueHD or DD+ 7.1 bed. You then have around 11 dynamic objects plus the LFE info for those 11 objects merged together into a single LFE Atmos channel. Those 11 spatial objects will group together “tens” of the cinema sounds together so it still can pan those sounds anywhere. But you started with 118 tracks and made them 11 or so. This is how Atmos works for streaming sources like Disney Plus.)

Thank you for the explanation - this "ray tracing" of audio is pretty cool!

Dolby Atmos claims to be backwards compatible with TrueHD or DD+.
Does this mean that you can play DA on an AVR without DA support (of course without the spatial effects)?
How is this done? Does a DA stream contain all 'old' channels?

 

[Deleted member 30699]

"spatially encoded digital signal" is just a simplified way of saying the data is encoded as objects with locations. I don't know what this has to do with the topic at hand or this AVR though. It's not really important how the data is encoded, just that we can't do anything with it.

Actually, it is kind of important how it works and how it is implemented.
Closed source audio codecs (at least the consumer versions) dont have a particular good track record in doing and delivering what they claim.

 

[beagleman]

Amir, is it possible to have a AV processor as good as decent topping DAC? Why a Denon receiver with a cheaper price tag can have a better measurement?

Dealers / Youtubers those that were recommending this unit over a Denon receiver are lying to us. They claim to have golden ears.

No more. Long live AudioScienceReview.com
ps. I want to see D'agostino product measurements.

Not saying you are technically "wrong", but you are assuming DAC measurements directly correlate to audible sound quality enjoyment.

 

[Deleted member 30699]

The Dolby professional software is for use by licensed professional and it costs £6000! It is not a product within reach of the consumer.

Expensive, yes, so is this AVR.

VLC, Kodi and Emby cannot play Dolby Atmos directly. You need to be advanced computer user to configure ffmpeg to pass the decoded data to the above players. However, there is so far no demo that shows it can be done. You are hypothesising. Besides, how are you planning to run ffmpeg in realtime to decode and play on a Raspbery Pi?

This is mostly _not_ why I asked - I just gave an example to ask why you'd use this vs something else (Dolby Atmos is a reason).
... ffmpeg is used by a range of programs that do not require a computer science degree
... and RPI4 is rather powerful but you can also use your old desktop.

Video switching is the number one function of an AVR. You can have a 2-ch only AVR but you cannot have an AVR without video switching. In your own words you do not need an AVR. It looks like you are here to simply pollute the thread about an AVR.

What a charming gentleman you are!

Besides, show me a card that is affordable and with at least 4 HDMI inputs! Or, a PCI solution for the Raspberry Pi that doesn't require hacking and involving soldering? Demonstrate how you plan to pass HDMI 2.1 (or even 2) via a USB connection, please.

As said, I don't route audio through HDMI but if I have -ever- some time, I'll look it up for you.
I route audio through AVB: 128 channels with hard-real time sampling

 

[beagleman]

Marantz is tuned to have a slightly “warmer” sounding tone. Denon will be a little clearer and slightly more punchy. This is all with pure direct enabled. All this could go out the door after Audyssey is enabled for I only compared with pure direct enabled. To me, measurement are to keep the manufactured honest and not stray away from the source too much.

I have found that just about any relatively modern audio equipment, if anything, will tend to measure very close to flat, and very similar to each other. When I say very similar, we are talking about 10ths of a decibel, not 2-3 or more dbs.

 

[LTig]

I remember you mentioned this before but I really would love to see the actual measurement. Based on what's in the 7701, it is hard to imagine 12 V, unless it is 12 V peak, even if it is 12 peak, that is about 8.5 Vrms it would still be excellent but what was the measured SINAD at that voltage?

Here is the 1 kHz signal of both the positive and negative balanced output referenced to ground, measured with my DSO. They sum up to 12.05V rms.

For the raw values I can only offer the text files where I manually recorded the THD and Noise values as shown by REW while I changed volume or dbFS, respectively (they are attached - I used gnuplot to read the files and create the plots). For lower volumes I increased the number of avarages to get meaningful values. With volume = 91 and -0.1 dFS THD was @ -96.3 dB, Noise @ -96.5 dB, resulting in a SINAD of 93.4 dB.

That older HDAM is quite different and it was used with OPA ICs that have very average specs. Hometheaterhifi.com's Dr. Rich had commented on it, not too kindly though. Marantz actually responded to that review, sort of defended Marantz (as expected), but then right after that they "upgraded" it to the current version, the same version has been in use for the AV8802A (7703/4/5, likely the 7702 as well) and AV8805 but changed for the SR8015.

Marantz AV8801 11.2 Surround Sound Processor (SSP) - HomeTheaterHifi.com

By the way I don't have the service manual of the 7701 but I have it for my 8801. Based on the 8801, SINAD would be about the same as the 7705, not better. Was the 7701 launched in the same year as the 8801?

According to @Kal Rubinson @ stereophile.com the AV7701 was introduced together with the AV8801 in late 2012. I bought the 7701 for a very good price at my local dealer shortly before it was replaced by the 7702, and at that time the 8801 also was reduced in price (the dealer offered it to me but I didn't want to spend that much money, especially since I use it in a 2.1 system only).

 

[Pdxwayne]

Here is the 1 kHz signal of both the positive and negative balanced output referenced to ground, measured with my DSO. They sum up to 12.05V rms.

View attachment 149082

For the raw values I can only offer the text files where I manually recorded the THD and Noise values as shown by REW while I changed volume or dbFS, respectively (they are attached - I used gnuplot to read the files and create the plots). For lower volumes I increased the number of avarages to get meaningful values. With volume = 91 and -0.1 dFS THD was @ -96.3 dB, Noise @ -96.5 dB, resulting in a SINAD of 93.4 dB.


According to @Kal Rubinson @ stereophile.com the AV7701 was introduced together with the AV8801 in late 2012. I bought the 7701 for a very good price at my local dealer shortly before it was replaced by the 7702, and at that time the 8801 also was reduced in price (the dealer offered it to me but I didn't want to spend that much money, especially since I use it in a 2.1 system only).

I have the 8801....Did you measure SINAD at lower volume levels?

 

[peng]

I have the 8801....Did you measure SINAD at lower volume levels?

If you look at hometheaterhifi.com's, the 8801's SINAD was no where near LTig's numbers for h8s 7701 at any output level, XLR or RCA, same for the 8802A, but the 8802A did measure a little better.

 

[truwarrior22]

I have found that just about any relatively modern audio equipment, if anything, will tend to measure very close to flat, and very similar to each other. When I say very similar, we are talking about 10ths of a decibel, not 2-3 or more dbs.

I agree, yet somehow these devices have their own bits of character which most will probably never notice. Problem is I like certain aspects of the Denon and Marantz, but can’t have both in one unit…maybe I need to step up to Classe, yeah right lol

 

[Pdxwayne]

If you look at hometheaterhifi.com's, the 8801's SINAD was no where near LTig's numbers for h8s 7701 at any output level, XLR or RCA, same for the 8802A, but the 8802A did measure a little better.

I am not so sure about the volume level used in hometheateehifi measurements....

At least for xlr input test, I wonder what is the volume level that corresponds to 2v output. Is it at a level less than 82? That is much less than LTig's 92 voLume level, correct?

Anyway, 90.89 dB THD+N, assuming 2v xlr in and 2v xlr out, is still pretty decent, correct?

 

[3125b]

Anyway, 90.89 dB THD+N, assuming 2v xlr in and 2v xlr out, is still pretty decent, correct?

It's probably good enough to not notice in a negative way, but then again, it's not even 16bits when CDs have been around for 40 years at this point.

The display situation on this seems really bad for the price to me. A tablet with a capacitive 7" touch screen costs about 60€ - it must be possible to implement something like that on a 5000$ device like this.

 

[truwarrior22]

It's probably good enough to not notice in a negative way, but then again, it's not even 16bits when CDs have been around for 40 years at this point.

The display situation on this seems really bad for the price to me. A tablet with a capacitive 7" touch screen costs about 60€ - it must be possible to implement something like that on a 5000$ device like this.

Rather have the R&D spent on making the phone and web apps better. Seems like some thing I have to go to the app and other I need to do from the web, etc..

 

[peng]

I am not so sure about the volume level used in hometheateehifi measurements....

At least for xlr input test, I wonder what is the volume level that corresponds to 2v output. Is it at a level less than 82? That is much less than LTig's 92 voLume level, correct?

Anyway, 90.89 dB THD+N, assuming 2v xlr in and 2v xlr out, is still pretty decent, correct?

I also think 90.89 dB THD+N is decent, but as you said we are not sure about the volume level used for that test.

So if I can pick and choose, I would use the 2 V RCA test to compare:

This one would likely be done with volume at 80 to 82, still not sure though. In this case, we get -80.46 dB, that's a little better than the AV7705's -75 dB. In any case, nothing compares with LTig's numbers, yet you would think the AV8801 should perform at least as good as his AV7701, so I have to wonder why not, may be the explanation is in the way they were measured, and the different measuring instruments used.

 

[Spocko]

This site helps to make an informed buying decision with great information but other than people on this site, what percent of AVR buyers care about SINAD or the DAC's filter? Features (i.e. can it play Napster ?) , how the product looks, and "will it work" with my speakers" and TV are the main questions at the BestBuy.

Bu,, if you want a processor with balanced outputs, and with all of the features that this 8805a has built in, what are the choices? Not saying I agree that better specs wouldn't be nicer, but the feature set stuffed into this box is phenomenal - even if it cost $5000.00?

The Monoprice HTP-1 is the better 16 channel processor for $4,000 because Dirac and more granular bass management.

 

[multisport4me]

Were they able to fix the linearity and jitter issues on the HTP-1 ?

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ce-htp-1-home-theater-processor-review.11416/

 

[jam]

Thanks for the review Amir. As the owner of an outdated Marantz AV8801 which is gathering dust in some corner, I gave up on Marantz about five years ago. A couple of years after the acquisition, I gradually came to realize that it lacked a lot of transparency. The reviews that Amir has conducted on the subsequent iterations of the lineage of these Marantz processors, clearly shows that D+M doesn't bother properly engineering and measuring these units. Really sad for what used to be a brand that had some panache years ago. So much for their HDAM mombo jumbo, which as Amir has stated simply introduces distorsion and reduces transparency.

 

[jam]

The Monoprice HTP-1 is the better 16 channel processor for $4,000 because Dirac and more granular bass management.

Hey FOMO... ehh Spocko that is (at least here), how about a little Trinnov Altitude 16... you lucky son of a gun. You must be in heaven my friend.

 

[peng]

Thanks for the review Amir. As the owner of an outdated Marantz AV8801 which is gathering dust in some corner, I gave up on Marantz about five years ago. A couple of years after the acquisition, I gradually came to realize that it lacked a lot of transparency. The reviews that Amir has conducted on the subsequent iterations of the lineage of these Marantz processors, clearly shows that D+M doesn't bother properly engineering and measuring these units. Really sad for what used to be a brand that had some panache years ago. So much for their HDAM mombo jumbo, which as Amir has stated simply introduces distorsion and reduces transparency.

Thanks to Amir, I thought we have hope because the SR8015 measured so much better than the SR8012 it replaced, presumable the different HDAM version could be the main reason. On the Denon side the AVR-X6700H's preamp measured almost as good as the AVR-X8500H. That seemed like all but certain at the time that they would continue to get better, until the latest news that they were replacing the DAC IC this Spring.

That would have been fine if they did replace it with one that would not maintain (as advertised on their Japan website) or improve performance, but that rumor about the IC being used is the PCM5102A that has about 10 dB (14 if I remember right) lower SINAD. So far this has only been confirmed on the X3700H based on the post by a member. There is still hope that the higher models may have a better DAC IC, perhaps something like the ES9006 or better. Otherwise, not only Marantz, Denon's may be on the down hill slope too, again, in terms of performance on paper/the bench.

We would need someone to send a AVR-X6700H or X4700H that have the replacement DAC IC to Amir to measure, and perhaps a tear down to confirm if they have the same PCM5102A found in the X3700H or a better one.

 

[stevenswall]

Especially, considering that the Denon AVR-X6700H measures better, at 50% of the cost and being a "complete" AVR...

I'd call that a legacy AVR, since it is trying to fit a ton of channels of poor amplification and archaic connectors into the unit, and the unit in this review provides non-hissing connectors for modern active speaker systems.

 

[Dj7675]

I'd call that a legacy AVR, since it is trying to fit a ton of channels of poor amplification and archaic connectors into the unit, and the unit in this review provides non-hissing connectors for modern active speaker systems.

-looking at the amp measurements that Amir did, are the poor? Maybe average?
-RCA out doesn’t necessarily mean hiss does it? Conversely, XLR won’t necessarily mean it won’t hiss, will it? I’ve used some rca to active speakers and in my case seemed just fine.