Late Early Results for Iowa...

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Willem
Here in the Netherlands we went back to paper ballots after the scary examples of potential interference and hacking....As a result there can be no confusion about who is entitled to vote. Every citizen receives a ballot invitation at his/her registered home address.

Probably more feasible with a population of about 5% of the US population...

In DE paper ballots are also used for all elections.
As in the Netherlands, the ballot papers are sent by post a few weeks before the election and contain additional information on how to fill in the ballot paper correctly and how to vote by post.

The size of the population does not play the decisive role (DE 83m, USA 330m), but the will to do so. If done correctly, it is damn hard to manipulate the outcome of the election.

 

[gikigill]

I may be one in the minority but I find this frightening.
Democracy is at a Crossroad. We know technology can steer an election ... We know how it can even manipulate the outcome. We know how also that the manipulation can come from adversary or enemies. What to do? Full Luddite mode? Or forge ahead in spite of the serious and nation-destroying threats and consequences?
Dystopian if you ask me. Not a joking matter.

Europe has been dealing with election meddling for a while now. They seem to have figured it out as to how to keep Russian interference out.

Of course, if your own house is rotten, no one can save you and Merkel definitely managed to keep Russian interference out during the recent German election.

This is the Russian manual on how to sow discord and create havoc in a society and it seems to be working well. It's a mindfuck of a book.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

 

[gikigill]

The US economy has nothing to do with the political election process. When politicians try to run things, you've got a completely different set of issues.
The number of people involved in physically dealing with up to a couple hundred million paper ballots seems a lot more likely to have easily exploited weaknesses...

Each state does its own counting so you can eat this massive pancake piece meal.

California has 40 million people and Wyoming 2 million so the electoral counting staff is sized accordingly.

 

[BDWoody]

Sure, fraud is always possible, and there are many countries to prove that point. However, I would hate to think of the US as a corrupt third world country or an Eastern European kleptocracy. Unfortunately, in the Netherlands too intelligence agencies have identified multiple Russian atempts to influence elections, hence ou return to paper. Anyway, thus far our paper voting system works well (touch wood).

Cheating in elections is as old as elections... I wish there were easy answers, and I have no doubt there is a war going on through bits and bytes as we speak.

In DE paper ballots are also used for all elections.
As in the Netherlands, the ballot papers are sent by post a few weeks before the election and contain additional information on how to fill in the ballot paper correctly and how to vote by post.

The size of the population does not play the decisive role (DE 83m, USA 330m), but the will to do so. If done correctly, it is damn hard to manipulate the outcome of the election.

Yes, you guys definitely took that shit seriously and have what by many accounts looks like a pretty tight system. I'm glad no one has assigned me the problem to fix...

 

[gikigill]

In DE paper ballots are also used for all elections.
As in the Netherlands, the ballot papers are sent by post a few weeks before the election and contain additional information on how to fill in the ballot paper correctly and how to vote by post.

The size of the population does not play the decisive role (DE 83m, USA 330m), but the will to do so. If done correctly, it is damn hard to manipulate the outcome of the election.

Germany also has a much shorter election campaign cycle and bans false claims and social media manipulation so that helps.

Hard to spread fake news and conspiracy theories when socialmedia is tightly regulated and you barely have time to discuss your policies let alone spew falsehoods.

 

[Ron Texas]

In the US, Blue vs Red bashing appears to be the norm. Don't turn it, so, onto the rest of the world that looks on in horror.

Anyway you haven't justified your post #22. Please Do.

More bashing of the USA.

I don't make things up:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/04/iow...ne-of-the-most-stunning-it-failures-ever.html

Since you upside down dwellers think you know so much about the US how is it that you missed this news article. Anyone here notice how all the other tech failures mentioned to annoy me were in the USA? The statement I made wasn't that sweeping or even mildly upsetting. Its being attacked for personal, partisan and anti US reasons.

If I,m incorrect about the electoral systems, point it out or hold your peace.

You must be one clueless person.

 

[gikigill]

Romney lost a presidential election and you're kvetching over a state primary.

Newsflash: Winning the Iowa primary doesn't make you the POTUS. Ask Cruz and Hillary, both winners of the Iowa 2016 caucus for their respective parties.

The examples mentioned USA because you accused everyone of US bashing so obviously we weren't going to mention the Maldives. Try being less of a snowflake.

All those petrol fumes in Texas has affected your rational decision making faculties it seems.

 

[splattened]

Calling anything in this thread remotely close to "US bashing" is cute.

 

[Ron Texas]

Romney lost a presidential election and you're kvetching over a state primary.

Newsflash: Winning the Iowa primary doesn't make you the POTUS. Ask Cruz and Hillary, both winners of the Iowa 2016 caucus for their respective parties.

The examples mentioned USA because you accused everyone of US bashing so obviously we weren't going to mention the Maldives. Try being less of a snowflake.

All those petrol fumes in Texas has affected your rational decision making faculties it seems.

Name calling. Accused everyone? No just you and one other from Oz. Both of you have repeatedly shown a dislike of the US and of my views on various occasions.

 

[Willem]

The US and your views are not the same. I have lived and worked in the US, and I like and in some respects admire the country. However, that does not mean I necessarily agree with all that comes from the US, nor do my American friends. The US has become a deeply divided country, and that makes me sad.

 

[Ron Texas]

The US and your views are not the same. I have lived and worked in the US, and I like and in some respects admire the country. However, that does not mean I necessarily agree with all that comes from the US, nor do my American friends. The US has become a deeply divided country, and that makes me sad.

If all you look at is the circus in Washington, there is deep division. That's what the press and the Left would like you to think. The reality of living in the US is entirely different.

 

[Blumlein 88]

If I were a betting man, I would bet on Bernie for the overall nomination

Pete has a lot of structural weaknesses amongst voters.

To those confused about number of Votes vs number of Delegates in Iowa, here's a good explanation.

https://heavy.com/news/2020/02/presidential-preference-vs-sde-iowa-results/

I'd bet it won't be Bernie because he lacks support in a key party demographic that does not exist in Iowa. For the same reason Pete has little chance. Warren likely has a better chance than those two for this reason. I think she doesn't have a great chance at this point.

 

[ex audiophile]

It's hard to leave when you can't find the door.

 

[Thomas savage]

General warning
As soon as things turn party political and people start jumping up and down with flags in hand threads like these will just get shut.

I'd rather we stay non political, it's just not worth it.

 

[Willem]

There are many different Americas, and I have witnessed divisions grow over the years. I have lived in north Carolina and in Princeton, and I know only too well that those are different worlds. I have travelled extensively in California and in the mid West, so I guess I have seen some variety. I have family in the US who are staunch Trump supporters. On the other hand, I don't think any of my own US colleaguess and friends would agree with Ron's views. However, none of this has much to do with the debacle of the Iowa caucus administration. And that has little to do with audio.

 

[splattened]

It would be a little disappointing for the whole thread to be closed because a single person can't handle it, but I get it.

 

[MRC01]

I'd bet it won't be Bernie because he lacks support in a key party demographic that does not exist in Iowa. For the same reason Pete has little chance. Warren likely has a better chance than those two for this reason. I think she doesn't have a great chance at this point.

The Democrats haven't learned the lesson from 2016. They need to run a candidate who can get votes across the middle of the country outside of NYC, SF and LA. As long as they keep blaming their loss on other irrelevant factors, they'll fail to learn the lesson and repeat the same mistake in 2020.

 

[beefkabob]

I may be one in the minority but I find this frightening.
Democracy is at a Crossroad. We know technology can steer an election ... We know how it can even manipulate the outcome. We know also that the manipulation can come from adversary or enemies. What to do? Full Luddite mode? Or forge ahead in spite of the serious and nation-destroying threats and consequences?
Dystopian if you ask me. Not a joking matter.

The first answer is to delete your social media accounts.

The Democrats haven't learned the lesson from 2016. They need to run a candidate who can get votes across the middle of the country outside of NYC, SF and LA. As long as they keep blaming their loss on other irrelevant factors, they'll fail to learn the lesson and repeat the same mistake in 2020.

I think Biden, Buttigieg, and Klobuchar can appeal to middle America. Sanders and Warren, not so much. But then there are many dems who say that a swing to the left will win the vote, getting more dems out, just as the repubs have swung to the right. Then there are those who say that Sanders can appeal to left and right. I know that I don't know the answer.

 

[BDWoody]

The Democrats haven't learned the lesson from 2016. They need to run a candidate who can get votes across the middle of the country outside of NYC, SF and LA. As long as they keep blaming their loss on other irrelevant factors, they'll fail to learn the lesson and repeat the same mistake in 2020.

There are a lot of versions of this map, but you can see the inherent problem...

This is why those in red aren't big into a popular vote election, and why those in blue see it otherwise...

Edit: 2016 Presidential election results by county.

 

[beefkabob]

There are a lot of versions of this map, but you can see the inherent problem...

View attachment 48865

This is why those in red aren't big into a popular vote election, and why those in blue see it otherwise...

People vote, but in the USA, the farther you live from other people, the more your vote counts. The current electoral college has nothing to do with its original intentions, and this map is misleading.