Lab.Gruppen E 4:2 Pro Amplifier Review

[Rja4000]

The E12:2 was independently tested

Same reference I provided above.

@amirm: by the way, do you see an interest to the Keele tone burst method?

 

[Vladimir Filevski]

Interesting! Here I've always heard those called "Phoenix terminals [or connectors]." "Euroblock terminal" I've usually seen refer to this style of insulated barrier strip:

Local names may vary, but that is "Barier terminal strip" or "Dual row screw wire terminal strip". You cut it to a required length, for connecting 230V mains electricity wires only - they are not male/female connectors. Insulating plastic is soft, to make cutting easy.
Euroblock (Phoenix) connectors have predetermined length and are true male/female connectors with durable plastic insulation.

 

[anmpr1]

FWIW, several amps I've personally purchased in the last half decade - Crown DCI Network, QSC SPA4100, Lab Gruppen LUCIA 240/2M - use Phoenix connectors for signal inputs, and either Phoenix connectors or fixed barrier strips for speaker outputs.

I have nothing against the Euroblock/Phoenix way of connecting, and have cited its benefits. As long as one is willing to make proper accommodations it should work fine. Your individual purchasing history does not, however, invalidate the general situation within home audio in the US, where the vast majority of (probably all) consumer amps don't support the interface. That is the point I and some others were making. Once you move over to the pro and installed side it is different.

 

[CDMC]

Disappointing, indeed. This was also a 2011 introduction so one cannot blame “new owners” either.

I think there has been so much turnover in the audio electronics industry and margins that are razor thin such that you no longer have preservation of an engineering culture in many larger companies producing high power

You have Benchmark.

Accuphase is one of the few companies that seems to have preserved an engineering culture. They like to brag that their company has about the same number of engineers since they started and even though their products have not been recommended here, they are very honest and reported that balanced SNR is worse than unbalanced SNR.

If you ignore their tube line, McIntosh’s core solid state amplification line does seem to be consistent and Stereophile reviews have been pretty good. But they do have their tube line.

Parasound and Bryston may also be good companies to look at.

It would be interesting to see how different Crown amplifiers fare, and if the new “budget” Mark Levinson Amps are good.

For me, if I were going to throw money at big amps, the first and only stop would be Bryston. Well engineered, a 20 year warranty, and excellent resale value. I just have a hard time justifying $12,000 per amp for a 28b when a hypex nc2000 takes up less space, runs cooler, consumes less electricity, and has more power for $1050.

 

[MerlinGS]

The IPD 1200 and 2400 could be special. Not much more than a Hypex, powerful, nice case, and excellent brand. The question is, will they measure well?

 

[amirm]

Same reference I provided above.

@amirm: by the way, do you see an interest to the Keele tone burst method?

I run the tone burst test already on amps. This amplifier didn't let me by going into limiting as the analyzer tried to determine power at 0.1% THD+N.

 

[Rja4000]

I run the tone burst test already on amps. This amplifier didn't let me by going into limiting as the analyzer tried to determine power at 0.1% THD+N.

Sure, but in general, about this method, what they do is to identify the peak power per frequency range. They then draw a peak power vs frequency plot.

I was wondering if that may somehow correlate with something audible, that could differentiate amps of similar power and performance.

 

[tomtoo]

I run the tone burst test already on amps. This amplifier didn't let me by going into limiting as the analyzer tried to determine power at 0.1% THD+N.

HeHe you see, this amp never let you punish your audience with more than 0.1% thd.

 

[anmpr1]

For me, if I were going to throw money at big amps, the first and only stop would be Bryston. Well engineered, a 20 year warranty, and excellent resale value. I just have a hard time justifying $12,000 per amp for a 28b when a hypex nc2000 takes up less space, runs cooler, consumes less electricity, and has more power for $1050.

In the '70s (when high powered consumer oriented amps started to appear in multitude) they were all expensive. And they were all physical beasts. Before then if you wanted a powerful amp you pretty much had to go pro... Crown, the large industrial Mac. Bob Carver was on the forefront of changing that perception with Phase Linear, but those too were big, heavy and not cheap. Bob again changed the game with his 'mag field' amps, which were lighter, powerful and relatively cheap. (What comes around... Bob's currently back to tubes!)

Nowadays the idea of heavy metal is almost an anachronism. The selling points for these are not primarily electrical, but exclusivity and cosmetic (Accuphase and McIntosh) or strong build quality/warranty (Bryston). That plus goofball reviews talking about rhythm and pace, air between instruments, plankton and the rest of the nonsense. A lot of those do offer a lot of raw power, but for a lot less money you can get a pro-oriented amp with tons of watts if that's what you need.

The present and future of amplification is smaller, lighter, and relatively inexpensive. Sometimes I imagine what Len Feldman, Julian Hirsch, and Bascom King would have thought in the late '70s if they could have somehow laid hands on an AHB2 back then. Heads would have exploded.

One would think (based on history) that outfits such as Bryston + McIntosh, and in Asia Accuphase, will keep going in spite of it all. But who can say?

 

[kevon27]

I've been looking at the Lab Gruppen E series on eBay and wondered why there are so many of them being sold. I wanted to get one but thanks to Covid, I stopped my unnecessary purchases. Boy, I'm happy I did not pull the trigger on this. ****** amps. I guess when you are associated with Behringer, your product quality goes down the toilet.

 

[psemeraro]

I get all that. I just don't get the product's intended application. It's evidently for 'installed' sound. What is that? What kindo of installation? For a thousand dollars?

As someone who installs "installed sound" it's easy to explain. Have you ever gone to a store at the mall and heard background music? That is one area of installed sound. Sports arenas and stadiums "house" sound systems are also installed sound. Lab G is not popular in that world (at least here in the US) and this product will likely not change that... What we dont know is the cost of that amp when you purchase 50 of them. There might be instances where Lab G incentivizes installers to consider their products over the usual suspects, typically QSC, Crown and Powersoft. (I'v never used Lab G in an install so I don't want to speak out of turn.) Larger installations move all audio and system monitoring/control data over cat 5 and the manufacturers ecosystem is really important to a successful installation. Q-Sys is an industry standard and this page gives a good overview of installed sound.
Q-Sys

 

[psemeraro]

You may have been listening live music through one of those without knowing though.

Last time I've been listening to Norah Jones live, they were using Lab Gruppen amps.
And, I can tell you (I was sitting 3 meters behind the FOH mixing desk), the sound was really amazing.

You were listening to very different amplifiers than the inexpensive one tested here.

 

[psemeraro]

The issue we have with the amp is misleading documentation and marketing material.

Lab G was a leader in developing light weight high power touring amps with lots of peak power but very aggressive limiting of rms power over time. (like power is cut in half after a few seconds) Now, many high power class D touring amps are designed that way. Lab G high end touring amps are also known to show higher distortion in testing vs more traditional class AB touring and hifi amps. I'll leave it to others to make a value judgement on them but that's the history in a few sentences.

 

[psemeraro]

A) I would think that in its intended installation (airport, mall, etc) the primary concern would be whether it will drive installed speakers and whether it will last for a long time without maintenance. If it can drive the PA speakers over a long distance connection then the power would be adequate. No? It does seem awfully expensive in USD. I wonder about that. Maybe airports and bus stations get a discount?

B) I would think that the fact the amp will not readily interface with any standard hi-fi gear disqualifies anyone anywhere from seriously considering this for their living room stereo. The back of the unit is not like certain Crown amps some people use in their home hi-fi. Some of those even have RCA connectors. Maybe in Europe it's different.

Phoenix connectors are super simple to wire up and in the case of QSC amps, the input is very tolerant of unbalanced connections... chop the end off an rca cable, wire it to +/- or N/+ or N/- (match both inputs however you do it) and you're good to go. Weird ground loops problems can be solved with some quick experimentation. (tie the- to N, etc.) I would think most readers of this website wouldn't be afraid of making a cable or two? I'm also wrong all the time... but there's no reason to be afraid of Phoenix connectors.

 

[Rja4000]

You were listening to very different amplifiers than the inexpensive one tested here.

No doubt about that

 

[Ro808]

I've been looking at the Lab Gruppen E series on eBay and wondered why there are so many of them being sold. I wanted to get one but thanks to Covid, I stopped my unnecessary purchases. Boy, I'm happy I did not pull the trigger on this. ****** amps. I guess when you are associated with Behringer, your product quality goes down the toilet.

Not necessarily so. Behringer sells quite a few products with excellent price/performance ratio.

Examples:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/budget-dac-review-behringer-umc204hd.1658/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...behringer-a800-stereo-amplifier-review.10499/

With some eq. this studio monitor is hard to beat:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...behringer-b2030p-studio-monitor-review.14719/

 

[No one you know]

Hello, thanks for this review.

I do not think it is a touring amplifier (more for fixed install, gpio control, phoenix connector).
The famous touring ones looks like that. The E serie looks like a cheap version of LabGruppen, it doesn't even have a DSP. DSP is what labgruppen is know for: 10 years ago, they were innovative and very robust. Now they are just expensive, not innovative but kept the robust part.You can push the PLM serie very hard. Be careful of cheap Chinese copies especially the FP10000 has been copied a lot (low quality components, bad cooling, etc ...). If you find super cheap FP10000 on ebay then beware.

The Lab Gruppen E Series are indeed “commercial install” amps and are designed to drive either LoZ or HiZ (70v) loads. These are designed for background music and voice applications - think restaurants, lobbies, offices, etc. They were (and possibly still are) manufactured in Thailand vs. Sweden. Only the “ big stuff” like PLM Series were still built in Sweden. I say “were” as Behringer seems to have closed down or severely curtailed the Lab Gruppen ops in Sweden to move things to their underutilized factory in China.

 

[No one you know]

Thanks Rja,

I am aware, Dante do one themselves under the AVIO range. Its just such a clunky solution! coax>AES>dante with a bunch of wall warts and mess.

I just want a nice little box to replace the DAC. I can't believe one doesn't exist actually.

*** One does exist, its just ridiculously expensive for what it does.

Im not that precious.

https://www.audinate.com/products/dante-enabled/rdl/rdl-sf-nd2

 

[No one you know]

Not necessarily so. Behringer sells quite a few products with excellent price/performance ratio.

Examples:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/budget-dac-review-behringer-umc204hd.1658/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...behringer-a800-stereo-amplifier-review.10499/

With some eq. this studio monitor is hard to beat:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...behringer-b2030p-studio-monitor-review.14719/

In defense of Lab Gruppen - the E Series predates Behringer’s acquisition of TC Group and production of the amps remained in Thailand. However, there were very large numbers of DOA E Series and support did become an issue under “Music Tribe”.

 

[No one you know]

Hello all,

This review piqued my interest, I run a pro amp at home and love it. Its not a Lab Gruppen but Powersoft and is an install amp rather than a live amp.

This amp seems like it would be perfect for what I would install it to do. Most likely powering a set of fire alarm speakers in a building. Need to be sure that the amp is always going to work and isnt going to get damaged by power surges or someone shorting a speaker etc. because chances are, no one in the building will ever check it except for the annual fire inspection.

When pushing out a pre-recorded message telling people to evacuate, im not too concerned about the distortion levels at the peak of the amps range, I am just concerned about getting the message out.

Anyone doing installed sound wouldn't pcik this for music reproduction, it would just be for emergency PA.

If I was in the US I would 100% send in my Powersoft quattrocanali 4804 DSP+D. Has everything you could ever want at 1200W per channel, 12V trigger and internal DSP. I run ATC SCM19's and a EAW subwoofer (bridged at 2400W) from it using the internal processing to do all the heavy lifting. Only thing I have in my wishlist is a SPDIF to Dante converter so I can feed it from the Sonos without the DA/AD.




Hope this helps with the above discussion! No reason to beat up this Amp, it is just not designed for audio fidelity.

I’d be happy to send one...but is it relevant? These are definitely designed for high performance installations!