Klipsch RPC1080 LCR Review

[JDS]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Klipsch PRO-180RPC LCR in-ceiling home theater speaker. It was kindly sent to me by a member and costs US $450 (MSRP $670).
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I installed the speaker in the plywood panel for special "baffle" measurement using Klippel Near-field Scanner. Please note that this is the "LCR" version of this speaker which angles the drivers 45 degrees. The normal one I think just has them pointing straight out. The 180RPC is rather light speaker as you can tell from rather small magnet on the woofer (which is also angled):
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Crossover is second order:

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The angled driver makes measurement challenging as the baffle system in NFS assumes zero degree radiation. I work around it in the measurements but that means eliminating fair number of graphs which no longer make sense.

Klipsch PRO-180RPC LCR Measurements
As a reference point if we go with the sound radiating 90 degrees to the surface of the speaker we get:
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The on-axis is poor now because of comb filtering caused by reflections caused by the tweeter angle (the up and down above 5 kHz). I post it so that we can see sound power and the fact that sensitivity is quite good. It peaks to 96 dB which is what the company advertises. I measured about 5 dB more sensitivity than typical 2-way speaker I measure.

The design angle is 45 degrees. I could generate that response but was too lazy and settled for showing you 40 and 50 degrees vertically:
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We see that the response becomes much more smooth and now displays the classic Klipsch recessed mid frequencies and accentuated highs. I highly recommend aligning your listening position to the 40 to 50 degrees. Off-axis is poor of course so better to have carpets and such to absorb them.

For distortion measurements, I aligned the microphone to be close to 45 degrees which results in similar frequency response:
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I didn't realize I could disconnect the tweeter and make driver measurements until I was ready to post this review. Without it, we can only guess that the peak in the distortion is from woofer going outside of its comfort. Sadly the distortion lands where our hearing is most sensitive.

Company advertisement for the impedance uses fancy marketing language to hide the real number:
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Fortunately the high sensitivity means that there is not much demand on the amplifier.

Waterfall measurement shows a pronounced resonance but this could be due to the baffle I built:
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Finally here is the step response:
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Conclusions
I miss my comprehensive measurements of speakers due to limitation of the setup here. The data we have indicates this is a reasonable design if you listen to it at 40 to 50 degrees. Otherwise like every other angled driver in-ceiling speaker I have tested, response would be quite poor. So I would place it away from close surfaces and use a carpet to absorb those reflections. Sensitivity is a major plus here easing amount of amplification power you need. On-axis frequency response shows that it needs just a couple of filters to be good.

Without ability to listen to the Klipsch PRO-180RPC LCR I don't have a recommendation for you. Generally though I kind of like what I saw especially at this price.
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Do people use angled ceiling speakers for anything other than surround in a HT setup? In that use case, I guess I don't see much benefit in high efficiency. These seem expensive relative their frequency response and distortion performance.

Klipsch tends to, shall we say, optimize for characteristics that are not my priorities.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

As previously stated, my use for these are going to be Atmos...I definitely would never advise/use in ceiling speakers for actual bed layer channels.

But if someone has a better recommendation/better measuring in ceiling speaker that is angled at least 30 degrees with good efficiency and wide coverage that doesn't cost as much as the JBL SCL-8, I am all ears

Also, these were $350 each when I bought them.

 

[Newman]

@amirm Amir, I see you gave the Vertical dispersion curve of SPL/frequency in order to represent the sound that becomes direct sound, shown as 40 to 50 degrees off-axis.

But since this speaker is meant to go in the L and R locations which will often be near side walls, it would be relevant for us to see the horizontal curve too, at least around the 45 degree mark. The design of the speaker means horizontal will not be same as vertical.

In fact, if your tool collects it, the best SPL/curve to represent the first reflection off the near side wall, would be a measurement axis half way between the classic horizontal and vertical arcs, taken at about 45 degrees off the axis that is orthogonal to the ceiling.

cheers

 

[Newman]

Based on the light construction noted by Amir, this speaker could have been priced around $100 IMHO.

 

[Mario Sanchez]

Would tilting the baffle be a possibility, or would that interfere with the mechanical operation of the NFS?

 

[fineMen]

Ten times more costly than I would--with a , accept for this level of performance. What are they thinking? Two things though:
- is the Klippel the correct tool to evaluate the performance
- is it worthwhile to install a so called home theatre anyway, especially with so many complications and an always way too tight budget

 

[GXAlan]

Klipsch KDA looks like 5 band PEQ?

 

[Dj7675]

Ten times more costly than I would--with a , accept for this level of performance. What are they thinking? Two things though:
- is the Klippel the correct tool to evaluate the performance
- is it worthwhile to install a so called home theatre anyway, especially with so many complications and an always way too tight budget

A couple comments..
-In order to make a judgement, and compare, you have to decide what will you be comparing it to? IMO, you have to compare it to other speakers attempting to solve the real problem of immersive audio setups where the in ceiling speaker is designed to be listened to around 45 degrees off axis and be in ceiling and flush mount. IMO comparing it to other speakers attempting to accomplish this, it is actually quite good.
-Is the Klippel the right tool? I think it is, in the manner Amir is attempting to show and explain the 40-50 degree off axis response and dispersion. Perfect, maybe not. But we have data with both the JBL SCL-5 and now this speaker we didn’t have before. Is a bookshelf speaker better? Yes. But sometimes it isn’t an option.
-This answer will vary depending on the individual. But yes, my multichannel atmos system gets used all the time. I have a dedicated 2 channel room too but most of my time is spent watching movies/music in a 9.4.7 system. Great fun.

 

[squared80]

Ceiling speaker are simply a convenient hassle free solution for people who hate the idea of loudspeakers standing in the middle of in their living room.

No, they're used more often for home theater Atmos setups.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

No, they're used more often for home theater Atmos setups.

Yea....this.

I mean there certainly are a lot of suburban basement builds where people just put in five ceiling speakers and call it surround sound but that isn't really the norm for this "hobby"/typical audio forum goers.

 

[amirm]

Do people use angled ceiling speakers for anything other than surround in a HT setup?

The main use is for LCR in front in typical living rooms. Hence the angled drivers to reach the sofa. The surrounds would have direct firing (no angle) above the sofa.

 

[amirm]

Would tilting the baffle be a possibility, or would that interfere with the mechanical operation of the NFS?

It would. It is also impossible to mount these at an angle so extreme. It expects a flat panel 90 degrees from the stand.

I did try to compensate in software but for some reason was not very successful. I need to contact them to see if there is a solution.

 

[Ellebob]

Maybe the Klippel isn't the right tool to measure this type of speaker if you can't angle the baffle. It would probably need to angle the mic as well to aim it properly if you can't angle baffle. Definitely something that could be done manually but I can see the automated system wasn't designed for this situation. I always appreciate the work you put into these measurements. I don't see an easy solution for measuring this type of speaker with the Klippel.

 

[amirm]

Maybe the Klippel isn't the right tool to measure this type of speaker if you can't angle the baffle.

??? I gave you the design angle anechoic frequency response:

Speaker clearly produces poor response off-axis relative to that angle and that is what the measurements show. With normal speakers, we don't like that. What the effect is in a ceiling speaker, is less clear. But all else being equal you want that off-axis response to be good. The KEF that I just tested gives you that:

 

[Buckeye Amps]

Speaker clearly produces poor response off-axis relative to that angle and that is what the measurements show. With normal speakers, we don't like that. What the effect is in a ceiling speaker, is less clear. But all else being equal you want that off-axis response to be good. The KEF that I just tested gives you that:

To be clear, when you say 40 degrees off axis for the Klipsch, you mean 40 degrees from a line straight up/down (if speaker were installed in the ceiling)?
Which for the angle of the speaker, means your off axis reference is technically "on axis" if one were lined up with the exact angle?

 

[amirm]

To be clear, when you say 40 degrees off axis for the Klipsch, you mean 40 degrees from a line straight up/down (if speaker were installed in the ceiling)?

It is 40 degrees toward its driver angle (0 would be straight out). In other words, if it were 45 degrees, it would be directly inline with the way the speaker is designed. How that looks relative to your installation depends on which way the angle is pointed when you install the speaker.

If you install the speaker in a ceiling, and it is in front of you, then the angle would point back at you, again, the way the driver is aimed.

BTW, i should not that 40 may be 45 degrees as I did not check to see if the baffle was 100% straight up. It could be off a few degrees.

 

[jhaider]

But if someone has a better recommendation/better measuring in ceiling speaker that is angled at least 30 degrees with good efficiency and wide coverage that doesn't cost as much as the JBL SCL-8, I am all ears

I don't know how much you can angle its coax, but Monitor Audio makes a neat one with their "IDC" coax that has the midrange cone swept behind the tweeter.

CP-CT380IDC | In-Ceiling Speakers | Monitor Audio

Monitor Audio's Controlled Performance CP-CT380IDC in-ceiling speakers offer improved driver specialisation, higher efficiency and power handling.

www.monitoraudio.com

The only caution I would make about using the Klipsch ones you bought is, the cutout is much larger than the cutout for most other ceiling speakers. So fitting something else later in the same room would mean redoing drywall.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

It is 40 degrees toward its driver angle (0 would be straight out). In other words, if it were 45 degrees, it would be directly inline with the way the speaker is designed. How that looks relative to your installation depends on which way the angle is pointed when you install the speaker.

If you install the speaker in a ceiling, and it is in front of you, then the angle would point back at you, again, the way the driver is aimed.

BTW, i should not that 40 may be 45 degrees as I did not check to see if the baffle was 100% straight up. It could be off a few degrees.

Thanks. Just wanted to clarify as I plan on installing these so the MLP is in line with the design of the speaker angle (what we would normally call 45 degrees or so).

In this use case, they seem to measure decently enough.

 

[JDS]

The main use is for LCR in front in typical living rooms. Hence the angled drivers to reach the sofa. The surrounds would have direct firing (no angle) above the sofa.

Now I understand -- I saw ceiling-mounted L, C & R main speakers on their website in a room with a front glass curtain wall, which I assume is an acoustic nightmare. I guess that's for folks who don't care about imaging or being able to localize sounds. I wonder what the Venn diagram looks like mapping "people who don't care about imaging" and "people who want to spend long green for 'audiophile' speakers that are completely hidden."

 

[amirm]

Yeh, these are architectural speakers where they are installed to not be seen first and foremost, and producing sound, second. While these latest generation in-ceilings are much better, they are not remotely ideal when they are firing down this way.