Kind of rant regarding what speakers to buy, environmentalism etc.

[Jim Matthews]

The Epos was suggested because it's available secondhand (no additional materials or energy used to build them) and they're a simple design.

I've heard them and they were inoffensive, which is commendable in a loudspeaker. Many cutting edge designs become tiresome before long.

Today is the best time to be a consumer: broadly available items of high quality at little cost. You're at the vanguard of consumers showing concern about the life cycle costs.

 

[richard12511]

Hello everyone, have been lurking this website for the past months. I just moved into my new place, first time living on my own yada yada yada.

To get to the point, I am hesitant in buying speakers.
In order to not increase my carbon/ecological footprint exponentially, buy one pair of speakers that are great allrounders and spend money only once...

... the main questions would be:

• If I were to buy 1 pair of speakers for the rest of my life (presumably not but it's hypothetical), would it be the:

1. Kef R3's (roughly 1600 euro's)
2. or Elac DBR62's (roughly 500 euro's)
3. Other options? More money? Less money?

• Given the room, generally speaking, should I buy looking at acoustic treatment? All walls are plasterboard, the floor has carpet, the ceiling is not solid either (think it is some sort of OSB).

I would pair either of these up with a good class D amp and an RME ADI-2 DAC for ''futureproofing'' and headphone-driving capabilities.

The size/layout of the room is a bit of an issue, so the dimensional difference of these two pairs of speakers is going to have quite a big effect, I imagine.
If you would argue not to buy speakers until I move to a better/dedicated room I am fine with that too, then I would focus on headphones for now.

Excuse my quick MS Paint-skills.
Thanks in advance

Massive edit: would have been smart of me to include actual dimensions of the room. Fixed the image. ~27 square meters (290sq. ft). 3.4 meters (11.1 ft.) (!) in height.

Take a look at Genelec. Fantastic speakers technically. SOTA.

 

[Chrispy]

I'd concentrate on getting better speakers than the ones listed and on the used market so as to keep the environment least impacted. Having just one pair of speakers for the rest of your life may not be realistic, especially ones only suited for listening at a desk or other limitations.....

 

[Juhazi]

Update:

I am currently trying the Genelec 8030c (the raw one indeed, @Juhazi why are the raw aluminium more expensive than the painted???) with an RME Adi-2 dac. My short first impressions.
---

Environmentalism adds value?

 

[rubenkemp]

I'd concentrate on getting better speakers than the ones listed and on the used market so as to keep the environment least impacted. Having just one pair of speakers for the rest of your life may not be realistic, especially ones only suited for listening at a desk or other limitations.....

I fully understand what you are saying, yet, my budget was not unlimited. It was indeed the space that caused some limitations I expect to re-use the speakers I have or sell them off. The difficulty I find with the second hand market is listening to speakers that are so called 'great value'. New products are, well, new. Used products can seldom be tested thoroughly, though I have several high-end re-sellers in the area. I was not in the market for 5000+ euro speakers, but I would prefer second hand.

@richard12511 I bumped this thread yesterday by posting on the second page of the thread, but because that gathered some attention others might not have read that message. I am currently trying out the 8030c's. That's a nice video, though it reeks a bit of greenwash-marketing. I suspect they have been making speaker cabinets like that for over 35 years, but suddenly it is 'sustainable'.

 

[Chrispy]

I fully understand what you are saying, yet, my budget was not unlimited. It was indeed the space that caused some limitations I expect to re-use the speakers I have or sell them off. The difficulty I find with the second hand market is listening to speakers that are so called 'great value'. New products are, well, new. Used products can seldom be tested thoroughly, though I have several high-end re-sellers in the area. I was not in the market for 5000+ euro speakers, but I would prefer second hand.

@richard12511 I bumped this thread yesterday by posting on the second page of the thread, but because that gathered some attention others might not have read that message. I am currently trying out the 8030c's. That's a nice video, though it reeks a bit of greenwash-marketing. I suspect they have been making speaker cabinets like that for over 35 years, but suddenly it is 'sustainable'.

Depends where you are to an extent as to the choice in used speakers, too (if you want to demo them if not already familiar with them), but the $ savings can be significant. Speakers that are "old" still generally function just fine, they're long lived generally. On that point, you've listened to the speakers you listed?

 

[TheBatsEar]

Get three pairs of used speakers and compare them. Keep the best, sell the other two off, doesn't matter if you make a profit or not.

If you do it in your area, you have almost no environmental damage. Also, you get experience with a great many devices, which makes it easier in the future to rate the value of gear.

All the stuff in my signature is bought second hand.

 

[rubenkemp]

Depends where you are to an extent as to the choice in used speakers, too (if you want to demo them if not already familiar with them), but the $ savings can be significant. Speakers that are "old" still generally function just fine, they're long lived generally. On that point, you've listened to the speakers you listed?

I do agree more with @TheBatsEar on this. Out of the hypothetical three sets of speakers, picking the best one and then accepting the fact that you live with those for a while (long time or short time) seems like a good option. However, minimizing distortion and finding a good FR in the infinite amount of speakers that are and were produced is almost like playing the lottery.

As an example: the nearest set of Epos ES12 speakers that someone mentioned (highly regarded, measurements are 'okay'), is 10 hours by car, so let's say 15 hours by public transport. I have traveled 4 hours (one way) for testing speakers and that seems to be a limit for me. At what point do the personal 'demand' for sound quality, acceptable environmental damage (the transport to and from the speaker might be the worst part about it if you buy used, actually), serviceability, lifespan etc.

The more I learn and read about the world, the more I am starting to understand where @Absolute is coming from. We are doomed.

 

[TheBatsEar]

Well, i should say that i do live in a highly densely populated area, tens of millions of people in a very small area. I have no problem getting gear used. Usually i set my search filters to 50km radius max. If you say 10 hours by car, that is an entirely different beast.

How about you pick 10 or so speakers that are in your area, and then ask here? I'm sure something comes up.

Or, you could just order one of the usual suspects, a pair of Kef LS50, a pair of Elac DBR62, a pair of Kef R3, and listen to them for a few days. Then send back the ones you don't like.

You would, however, compromise on the environmental aspect.

 

[Sal1950]

Humm, some people just seem dedicated to spoiling all the enjoyment of life and are hell bend on turning us all into little robots.
I drive a big, gas guzzling, pickup truck with a massive and safe steel frame under it. I eat at least one very large portion of beef every day. And thinking about my carbon footprint is the very last thing that comes to mind when picking my HiFi gear.
Go bother all those idiots polluting the world with trillions of plastic water bottles when the water coming out of the garden hose is just fine.
A million bottles a minute I understand

 

[TheBatsEar]

I drive a big, gas guzzling, pickup truck with a massive and safe steel frame under it. I eat at least one very large portion of beef every day. And thinking about my carbon footprint is the very last thing that comes to mind when picking my HiFi gear.
Go bother all those idiots polluting the world with trillions of plastic water bottles

Prime example of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

You must be able to see that there is a steep cost to be paid by future generations for all of that, water bottles AND audio gear?

 

[rubenkemp]

Prime example of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

You must be able to see that there is a steep cost to be paid by future generations for all of that, water bottles AND audio gear?

A French despot created a very nice proverb that says 'Après moi, le déluge', or 'after me, the floods'. Do you have kids @Sal1950 ? In a couple of decades, maybe a century, there will be very little enjoyment. Hedonism is fine, but not when it meets constant consumerism and a growing population.

 

[Jim Matthews]

In a couple of decades, maybe a century, there will be very little enjoyment. Hedonism is fine, but not when it meets constant consumerism and a growing population.

You must be loads of fun at parties.

If the World really was "going to the dogs" we would already be up to our elbows in Weimeraners.

Alternative view

 

[Thunder22]

I suggest you design the first speaker made entirely out of recycled water bottles. Since most plastic can't be recycled, you could start a audio revolution to save the planet.. Otherwise just get a pair of awesome speakers... at least you'll have good sound while you fixate on everything else.\

"The earth is fine; the people are fucked!" George Carlin.

 

[Thunder22]

 

[Sal1950]

 

[Jim Matthews]

View attachment 120962

Debunked

https://correctiv.org/faktencheck/w...NmAYOLzQZ4bZLzYQ0CubaG6PI_dZhbMxMzfRae9rNVx0k

This photo was lifted from an OAMTC promotional blurb on Facebook demonstrating their service. Most of us (in North America, which grudgingly include planet Florida) drive less than 30 miles on a given day.

That's well within the range of even the skimpiest battery pack. Sunny places (like planet Florida) could become net exporters of electric power in the next decade - with plenty of juice left over for plug in F150s.

It's not a stretch to imagine driving on "free fuel" if you have a panel or twelve on your roof.

https://practiceguides.chambers.com/practice-guides/alternative-energy-power-2020/austria



Inquiring minds check sources - for themselves.

 

[Hipper]

A really easy way to substantially reduce one's carbon footprint is to go vegan.

*backs away slowly after opening potential can of worms*

Aren't worms meat?

To the OP, if you are really serious about the environment I would guess going the headphone route would be the least intrusive. I have no facts but I'm sure it would be easy to calculate.

You really need to decide for sure what it is you really want. I'm not sure speakers suitable for your desk would be satisfying when sitting on your sofa. I'd therefore suggest you look at arrangements for speakers that would suit listening on the sofa which could be adapted for desk listening - perhaps wall mounted using an adjustable bracket.

As for room treatment, you could perhaps look at panels to absorb wall reflections as has been mentioned, but to address bass issues I would suggest some sort of DSP/EQ, which would depend on your source - software if you use a PC or hardware if not.

 

[rubenkemp]

Aren't worms meat?

To the OP, if you are really serious about the environment I would guess going the headphone route would be the least intrusive. I have no facts but I'm sure it would be easy to calculate.

You really need to decide for sure what it is you really want. I'm not sure speakers suitable for your desk would be satisfying when sitting on your sofa. I'd therefore suggest you look at arrangements for speakers that would suit listening on the sofa which could be adapted for desk listening - perhaps wall mounted using an adjustable bracket.

As for room treatment, you could perhaps look at panels to absorb wall reflections as has been mentioned, but to address bass issues I would suggest some sort of DSP/EQ, which would depend on your source - software if you use a PC or hardware if not.

For now I have the switches on the 8030c set to 'on' for bass tilt -4dB and 'desktop control' to accommodate for resonance. Both of these will probably have to change when I put them on desk stands, but on books (testing the height) it seemed to do with just the 'desk control' turned off.

You are completely right about the speakers in relation to the desk - sofa, especially since the desk is rather deep (90cm). The sofa happens to have foldable headrests that are quite thick, so they absorb at ear height what otherwise would have been reflected off of the plasterboard wall behind it. The RME Adi-2 Dac has amazing settings to play around with, and it seems that no eq and or loudness is best for nearfield and both of those enabled lead to a more pleasant distant listening. EQ is currently set to slightly less 4khz and up, but that is entirely dependent on what height my ears are listening at. I am planning on checking what the difference is between stands and no stands. To me, stands on a desk (these ones) with the speakers tilted slightly down seems to be a good compromise.

I have seen several people online mount them like on the image below, so I could put them on my monitor arm but it would be going over the listed max. weight, and would require me to buy a whole lot of extra stuff, though it would probably be one of the best ways of doing it given the flexibility.
(really close to a window, in a tight corner, man that's rough)

 

[Sal1950]

Debunked

But it's still funny as hell.