Speakers KEF R3 equipment match

[RickyC34]

My flex was on hold at DHL from the 12th -18th FRUSTRATING. I just got it hooked up yesterday and have not got the routing down for my system. I hope to get some time with it today. The main problem I'm going to run into in my system is that my source will almost always be output 2.0 then mixed with Dirac. This will work but not 100% what I had in mind with my single flow. I may use Jriver to help mix the signal I'm not 100% sure. I have some trial and error ahead of me. For example with a computer as my source all browser media is 2.0. If I switched to a Windows machine and ran the Netflix app I believe it would get 5.1. The app is not offered on Apple though. So as you can see some of my problems ahead. If a ATV was my source and I was using the Dirac offered by Minidsp it would be much easier but I would not be using DLBC. In the end my guess is I'll just use the FlexHT as a pass thru device but I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[RickyC34]

Everything is up and running with DLBC routed this way in Dirac on my 2.3 system. Minidsp acts as a multi-channel dac with volume control. Dirac up mixes. I'm currently using usb audio. My first impressions are solid, sounds great so far.

 

[metokolev]

Everything is up and running with DLBC routed this way in Dirac on my 2.3 system. Minidsp acts as a multi-channel dac with volume control. Dirac up mixes. I'm currently using usb audio. My first impressions are solid, sounds great so far.

WOW 3 subs. Must sound massive. Enjoy it and happy holidays!

 

[metokolev]

Yes, optical from the streamer to DAC. Coax carries the same signal but because it uses electrical connections it can carry a ground loop which is always worth avoiding. Optical only uses light.

TRS can be wired as a balanced connection, that cable from amazon is the correct type. You can find cheaper versions though, 12 euro for 3 metres seems common. If you need an unbalanced connection in the future you can get a TRS to RCA, or XLR to RCA adapter. You just lose the noise rejection benefits, because only the positive voltage will be connected.

Amp to speakers should be speaker wire, not RCA. 16 or 14 gauge OFC (oxygen free copper) is what you should buy.

https://www.amazon.de/KabelDirekt-Lautsprecherkabel-5mm%C2%B2-Kupfer-Polarit%C3%A4tskennzeichnung/dp/B01C79Z1FU/?th=1

Hi Alex,

Happy 2024! Now I had time to check again for the right optical cable (streamer to DAC) on Amazon.de. Is this it?

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Optical-Compatible-Soundbar-Gold-Plated-Connector/dp/B09LCVBGZH/ref=sr_1_14?crid=1BT3KEAB9SC0&keywords=optical%2Bcable&qid=1704195719&sprefix=optical%2Bcable%2B%2Caps%2C134&sr=8-14&th=1

In summary:

• Speakers - speaker wire, 16 or 14 gauge OFC (oxygen free copper)
• streamer OUT (optical) to DAC IN (optical)
• DAC OUT (balanced, TRS) to amp IN (balanced, XLR)

Also if I get a sub in future, do I connect DAC OUT (TRS) to Sub (TRS)?

 

[metokolev]

Hi Alex,

Happy 2024! Now I had time to check again for the right optical cable (streamer to DAC) on Amazon.de. Is this it?

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Optical-Compatible-Soundbar-Gold-Plated-Connector/dp/B09LCVBGZH/ref=sr_1_14?crid=1BT3KEAB9SC0&keywords=optical%2Bcable&qid=1704195719&sprefix=optical%2Bcable%2B%2Caps%2C134&sr=8-14&th=1

In summary:

• Speakers - speaker wire, 16 or 14 gauge OFC (oxygen free copper)
• streamer OUT (optical) to DAC IN (optical)
• DAC OUT (balanced, TRS) to amp IN (balanced, XLR)

Also if I get a sub in future, do I connect DAC OUT (TRS) to Sub (TRS)?

@RickyC34, @alex-z ,@HarmonicTHD

Gents, sorry to bother you again (hope this will be the last one), but could you please confirm if I am looking at the right optical cable?

Also if I get a sub later, should I look for TRS type of cable - DAC OUT (TRS) to Sub (TRS)?

Thank you!!!

 

[HarmonicTHD]

@RickyC34, @alex-z ,@HarmonicTHD

Gents, sorry to bother you again (hope this will be the last one), but could you please confirm if I am looking at the right optical cable?

Also if I get a sub later, should I look for TRS type of cable - DAC OUT (TRS) to Sub (TRS)?

Thank you!!!

Yes. But the ones further down for ca 9 EUR are just as good as this for 25 or so.

 

[mglobe]

@alex-z Thank you! I've read the same in other posts here. The one box solutions are generally pricier because they are more convenient for the user and everybody in the chain need to markup.

What should I consider when connecting the separate boxes - Apollo Hypex NCx500 + miniDSP Flex Digital + WiiM Pro and the KEF R3?

I found the miniDSP Flex in Europe but DIrac live need to be purchased separately. I can't find it with Dirac live included. Couple of questions though?

1. I assume the UMIK mic is required if I want to activate the Dirac live?
2. Do I need to be worried about the different FLEX models, e.g. balanced/ unbalanced/ digital? Seems the analog audio output is the biggest difference between unbalanced and digital. The balanced is 100EUR more expensive than the unbalanced and digital. I read in an article that it depends on the amp but no idea if the ports of the Hypex NCx500 ST Lux Stereo Amplifier are balanced or not.

Thanks agains and apologies if I've been pain in the ass with all the silly questions.
View attachment 333141

Why complexity? Isn't Dirac same type of feature/ software as Yamaha's YPAO which purpose is to correct acoustics in the room?


Summarizing all of the above (hopefully haven't excluded any good suggestions), I see these as my main options:

1. Integrated amps – all in one box
   1. Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 - 4100лв (2095EUR/ 2250USD)
   2. NAD M10 v2 – 4740лв (2420EUR/ 2600USD)
   3. Yamaha r-n1000a - 2795лв (1430EUR/ 1540USD)
2. Dedicated function per box – 4555лв (2325EUR/ 2500USD)
   • Amp – Hypex NCx500 (without OP Amplifier Selection) - 2920лв (1490EUR/ 1605USD)
   • DAC – MiniDSP Flex
     • miniDSP 2x4 FLEX digital signal processor - 1270лв (650EUR/ 700USD)
     • MINIDSP FLEX Audio Processor DSP Balanced - 1470 (750EUR
   • Streamer - WiiM pro plus - 362лв (185EUR/ 200USD)

Hope this info will be of help to other users as well when deciding on their Hi-FI purchase.

Thank you all!

You don't need two MiniDSP Flex devices. I'd get an amp with balanced input and the MiniDSP Flex with balanced output. This sets you up to add subs at a later date. Dirac doesn't have to be all that difficult if you don't want it to be. You're get the best result if you do extra work with REW, but you don't have to. You could save about 100EUR with an Audiophonics https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/powe...ereo-purifi-1et400a-2x400w-4-ohm-p-14393.html

I think the Lyngdorf would be a good easy-button option.

 

[metokolev]

You don't need two MiniDSP Flex devices. I'd get an amp with balanced input and the MiniDSP Flex with balanced output. This sets you up to add subs at a later date. Dirac doesn't have to be all that difficult if you don't want it to be. You're get the best result if you do extra work with REW, but you don't have to. You could save about 100EUR with an Audiophonics https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/powe...ereo-purifi-1et400a-2x400w-4-ohm-p-14393.html

I think the Lyngdorf would be a good easy-button option.

Thank you for the response.

Yes, I am considering purify amp, mini dsp flex balanced, wiim pro and SVS 1000 sub.

Together with the speakers should hit 4k EUR budget which I believe is a decent setup for the price.

 

[metokolev]

Yes. But the ones further down for ca 9 EUR are just as good as this for 25 or so.

Thank you man, noted.

 

[Chagall]

Thank you for the response.

Yes, I am considering purify amp, mini dsp flex balanced, wiim pro and SVS 1000 sub.

Together with the speakers should hit 4k EUR budget which I believe is a decent setup for the price.

Great setup!

MiniDSP SHD is more expensive, but it does everything Flex does, plus a streamer, so one box less. Not sure if the streamer part has everything you need.
Also for 4K EUR, KEF LS60 was on sale during the holidays - kind of makes me wonder....but separates will always be more flexible and ultimately sound better.

 

[metokolev]

Great setup!

MiniDSP SHD is more expensive, but it does everything Flex does, plus a streamer, so one box less. Not sure if the streamer part has everything you need.
Also for 4K EUR, KEF LS60 was on sale during the holidays - kind of makes me wonder....but separates will always be more flexible and ultimately sound better.

Thank you!

I checked now the SHD. It's 1600 EUR in Europe or double the price of minidsp flex + mic umik 1 (809 EUR). The wiim pro streamer is 180 EUR so I think I would go with separate box for streaming considering the price difference. For streaming I would use primarily Qobuz so most streaming devices should be ok I think.

But thank you for the recommendation man!

 

[Chagall]

Yep, the cost for having fewer boxes

Anyway, very nice setup!

 

[metokolev]

Yep, the cost for having fewer boxes

Anyway, very nice setup!

Yeah... Anyway, thanks again for suggesting the SHD. I didn't even know for it's existence

Thank you and appreciate the recommendations!

 

[RickyC34]

@metokolev Sorry for the delayed response, I've been quite ill the last few days. Any optical cable is fine. As far as the sub goes, searching for a sub with TRS may be quite challenging. You will be fine running XLR to TRS. Even with an unbalanced sub, it would work, but not completely "optimal". that's another discussion in itself that can be had at a later date once you are deciding on subs.

The SHD is a great device. In my opinion, the Wiim streamer is superior to Volumio which is on the SHD. Depending on how you look at it a strength of the SHD is you can choose the dac or dacs of you choice. The Dac on the Flex and HT series is very good though and this "strength" can easily be a weakness if you just look at it as more boxes needed and more money. To be clear with the SHD you must provide a dac for your mains and a separate dac for your subs.

The FlexHT series is an option to be considered that has separate advantages/disadvantages. The biggest advantage of the HT series is that Earc and USB audio can accept 8 ch in and 8 out vs the Flex or SHD 2 in 4 out. Either system will be killer. Congrats on a soon-to-be awesome setup.

 

[metokolev]

Hi @RickyC34,

Hope you are feeling better man!

As far as the sub goes, searching for a sub with TRS may be quite challenging. You will be fine running XLR to TRS. Even with an unbalanced sub, it would work, but not completely "optimal". that's another discussion in itself that can be had at a later date once you are deciding on subs.

I am considering this sub SVS SB-1000pro.

The SHD is a great device. In my opinion, the Wiim streamer is superior to Volumio which is on the SHD. Depending on how you look at it a strength of the SHD is you can choose the dac or dacs of you choice. The Dac on the Flex and HT series is very good though and this "strength" can easily be a weakness if you just look at it as more boxes needed and more money. To be clear with the SHD you must provide a dac for your mains and a separate dac for your subs.

The SHD looks great but is double the price of flex balanced (including umik) + wiim pro so knowing that I already overshoot my budget most probably will go with separate box for streaming or wiim pro. However the preamp option of the SHD is temping if in future I decide to upgrade the setup and having the dirac live imbedded is definitely more convenient and saves me $200.

The FlexHT series is an option to be considered that has separate advantages/disadvantages. The biggest advantage of the HT series is that Earc and USB audio can accept 8 ch in and 8 out vs the Flex or SHD 2 in 4 out. Either system will be killer. Congrats on a soon-to-be awesome setup.

I know the apollon purifi supports both balanced and unbalanced but isn't the balanced superior and preferred option? I ask because the HT series I can find only as unbalanced.


Thanks for confirming on the optical cable and for all the help and advice so far!!!

 

[RickyC34]

You will be fine with unbalanced and would be very surprised if you could tell a difference if A/B'ed. Balanced may have advantages in longer runs. If buying the unbalanced flex you would not be using the TRS cables and RCA's will do the job. I like "world's best cables" from Amazon but any will do. Don't get hung up on the balanced/unbalanced. If you can only get the unbalanced and your amp has unbalanced you are good to go. For what it's worth I run the FlexHt unbalanced into my balanced amp with a xlr to rca cable. No issues. If my amp had both balanced and unbalanced I would use unabalcned vs the xlr to rca cable. Hope this helps.

 

[metokolev]

Thanks @RickyC34!

So are you recommending the SHD (one box for dac & streaming) too? I definitely won't be able to tell the difference as I've listened most of my live on active speakers connected to a laptop only.

I can get both balanced and unbalanced of the FLEX series, but SHD I only find as such. The backside photo of the product shows that it too has both balanced and unbalanced outs & ins. However reading the FAQ on the buying webpage it seems it doesn't come with a DAC "The miniDSP SHD Studio does not have the AD (analog to digital) and DA (digital to analog) stage." But this is not the Studio model. Also the photo on the official webpage for that product shows that you don't need external DAC, see below. I would assume it was miss on Soundimports side...

• Buying website: https://www.soundimports.eu/en/minidsp-shd.html
• Official webpage: https://www.minidsp.com/products/streaming-hd-series/shd

If you can only get the unbalanced and your amp has unbalanced you are good to go. For what it's worth I run the FlexHt unbalanced into my balanced amp with a xlr to rca cable. No issues. If my amp had both balanced and unbalanced I would use unabalcned vs the xlr to rca cable. Hope this helps.

If definitely does. I think I got hung up on that because another user said that it's important to match amp vs dac. Also the apollon purifi has both anyway so I can go all unbalanced if needed.

Thanks again but no I wonder if the additional 800EUR are worth for the SHD it definitely sounds like the more convenient option but everything comes with a price...

 

[RickyC34]

Facepalm......my bad I was looking at the Studio. So many options nowadays. The SHD is killer but don't believe the extra $ is worth it in your case. I like the WIIM interface better than the SHD software. For a "streamer," I use a Mac mini to a FlexHT and send audio via usb to the Mac. Mac hooked up to my living room TV with a wireless keyboard. I apologize again for the brain fart. FWIW the DAC in the Flex is very good, I think you will be very happy and you can save some $ along the way. If you can get either bal or unbalanced on the Flex and the difference is only $75 I would go blanaced. Not sure the price dif where you are. Either way, you will be fine and hard-pressed to tell a difference.

 

[metokolev]

Hi @RickyC34 ,

It's all good man, don't need to apologize! Yes the difference is only 50EUR between balanced and unbalanced so I was going for the balanced flex.

So the original plan stays in place - apollon purifi amp, miniDSP Flex balanced DAC, and WiiM pro streamer. All should be around 2200EUR (if I buy the LUX amp it will jump to 2700EUR but don't think it's worth it knowing the specs are the same just the build materials are of higher quality.).
The KEF R3s I can get for 1050EUR which is definitely not 80% of the budget... but I still think should be a great setup.

The SVS SB-1000 pro I found for 805EUR so with that I should be at around 4000EUR for the whole setup (excluding cables).

Thanks again,
Meto