Kef LS60 wireless review by ErinsAudioCorner

[Absolute]

I am greatly in favor of speakers with high dynamic range myself, but I think it is a bit unfair to make a big point about this in this review thread. The LS60 isn't a large speaker by any means, and no one should expect it to have massive SPL numbers. It's like buying a small car and complaining it is small. The LS60 is small by design to cater for those who want smaller speakers.

So while the topic of dynamics is an interesting discussion, I'm not sure it should take place in the LS60 review thread?

Why would a discussion about this speaker's dynamic capability be irrelevant in the review thread about this speaker?

My remarks about the lack of dynamic capability had nothing to do with expectations at all. They were motivated by the tendency of many members to overlook other important metrics that's relevant for objective speaker performance.
Having a nuanced view of pro's and con's is beneficial in a review thread imo.

As long as people understand the difference between objective performance (I demonstrated my reservation vs another small speaker) and my opinion about it (overpriced toy speaker), then they can make informed decisions about whether or not this speaker fit their needs.
If somebody feels that my opinions are unfounded, I'm happy to discuss further based on objective reasoning.

But I I feel no need or desire to play nice towards manufacturers in a review thread, I only care about nuanced and relevant information for us consumers.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Why would a discussion about this speaker's dynamic capability be irrelevant in the review thread about this speaker?

My remarks about the lack of dynamic capability had nothing to do with expectations at all. They were motivated by the tendency of many members to overlook other important metrics that's relevant for objective speaker performance.
Having a nuanced view of pro's and con's is beneficial in a review thread imo.

As long as people understand the difference between objective performance (I demonstrated my reservation vs another small speaker) and my opinion about it (overpriced toy speaker), then they can make informed decisions about whether or not this speaker fit their needs.
If somebody feels that my opinions are unfounded, I'm happy to discuss further based on objective reasoning.

But I I feel no need or desire to play nice towards manufacturers in a review thread, I only care about nuanced and relevant information for us consumers.

I'm not saying you should play nice towards the manufacturer, but it's fair to judge it based on what it is and what it was designed to be? If you require high dynamic speakers you need to purchase that. This is not it, and it was not designed to be. Why even be in this thread if that is what you are looking for?

 

[Matias]

View attachment 335590

Purchased? Borrowed? Bought and returned? From who and how much? From one of the commission paying companies below?

Erin purchased these speakers himself and is selling them at a loss after the test, and hopefully the Patreons can cover the loss with donations.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/erinsaudiocorner/permalink/1532399290868581/?ref=share&mibextid=mXkcHE

 

[Puddingbuks]

These classy little things can't get close to enjoyable levels for a movie night.

Have you heard them for yourself?

If not, try them out at a local dealer. Curious what your experience would be.

I think they will play loud enough for 95% of the people and then again, playing that loud will result in hearing damage. Peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep.

 

[Purité Audio]

Owning a pair I agree, what else of similar quality would be available for £4500?
Active or passive , remembering that the 60s are a complete system within themselves?
Keith

 

[bodhi]

So while the topic of dynamics is an interesting discussion, I'm not sure it should take place in the LS60 review thread?

I think it's actually good thing to point out. I myself kind of though that the LS60 would be loud enough for me, but when you really look at the numbers it's clear it really is rather limited especially in bass, even in medium room.

 

[sifi36]

I am greatly in favor of speakers with high dynamic range myself, but I think it is a bit unfair to make a big point about this in this review thread. The LS60 isn't a large speaker by any means, and no one should expect it to have massive SPL numbers. It's like buying a small car and complaining it is small. The LS60 is small by design to cater for those who want smaller speakers.

So while the topic of dynamics is an interesting discussion, I'm not sure it should take place in the LS60 review thread?

Excellent post Thorbjorn I fully agree.

On an unrelated point, do you see any similarities between this speaker and the Manta? Things that came to my mind were the small bump in midbass, the design axis being slightly off-axis and the prioritisation of listening window response over a perfect on-axis response (the latter two are related I suppose).

 

[bodhi]

Owning a pair I agree, what else of similar quality would be available for £4500?
Active or passive , remembering that the 60s are a complete system within themselves?
Keith

Genelec 8350 + stands + GLM + Wiim Pro.

 

[digitalfrost]

Peak at 1m 117dB according to their own specs,

Blade One Meta

Immerse yourself in audio precision with the KEF Blade speakers. The world's first Single Apparent Source speaker, now with 12th generation Uni-Q® with MAT™.

uk.kef.com

That's actually insane for such a small driver.

 

[Purité Audio]

Genelec 8350 + stands + GLM + Wiim Pro.

Hmm 8350 plus sub doesn’t seem to offer a great deal more, indeed less.

Genelec 8050B Review (Studio Monitor)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Genelec 8050B powered studio monitor (speaker). It was kindly purchased by a member used and drop shipped to me. It costs US $1895 each when new. I was horrified when I noticed the speaker was simply put in a plastic bag, dumped into a much...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Erin purchased these speakers himself and is selling them at a loss after the test, and hopefully the Patreons can cover the loss with donations.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/erinsaudiocorner/permalink/1532399290868581/?ref=share&mibextid=mXkcHE

View attachment 335719

If saving for a house I wouldn't be buying high-end KEF speakers that I know I wouldn't be keeping. But each to his own I guess..

 

[Sokel]

I'm not saying you should play nice towards the manufacturer, but it's fair to judge it based on what it is and what it was designed to be? If you require high dynamic speakers you need to purchase that. This is not it, and it was not designed to be. Why even be in this thread if that is what you are looking for?

It's their format that makes them such a target.
It's anti-intuitive for a tower speaker not to able to cover dynamics over 75db average (so 85db max,105db peak) and that's NOT with high demanding material.

But as long as numbers are out there by a trustworthy measurement it's up to anyone to decide (or ask if he can't read the charts) .
That's why we have to have a nice complete set of data like this.

 

[Vacceo]

I think it's actually good thing to point out. I myself kind of though that the LS60 would be loud enough for me, but when you really look at the numbers it's clear it really is rather limited especially in bass, even in medium room.

A subwoofer is always a good idea, if only for room modes.

 

[Sokel]

Hmm 8350 plus sub doesn’t seem to offer a great deal more, indeed less.

Genelec 8050B Review (Studio Monitor)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Genelec 8050B powered studio monitor (speaker). It was kindly purchased by a member used and drop shipped to me. It costs US $1895 each when new. I was horrified when I noticed the speaker was simply put in a plastic bag, dumped into a much...

www.audiosciencereview.com

View attachment 335725

Are we reading the same?
8350A does 113db SPL short term and 104db SPL long tern at 1 meter where LS60 can't even do 96db SPL.

 

[bodhi]

Are we reading the same?
8359A does 113db SPL short term and 104db SPL long tern at 1 meter where LS60 can't even do 96db SPL.

I was using this graph. It falls off a cliff at 60Hz but still...

 

[Sokel]

I was using this graph. It falls off a cliff at 60Hz but still...

It's a 10 yo small speaker,not a miracle box,it's still admirable to go up there,much bigger speakers struggle under 60Hz,so...

 

[Matias]

If saving for a house I wouldn't be buying high-end KEF speakers that I know I wouldn't be keeping. But each to his own I guess..

You could argue that he should sell his 100k NFS too, and instead of shooting videos he could get a side job as well. By I guess Erin is really committed to making his channel grow, and we should be thankful for that.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

You could argue that he should sell his 100k NFS too, and instead of shooting videos he could get a side job instead. By I guess Erin is really committed to making his channel grow, and we should be thankful for that.

And I am. I just found it a bit funny and counter intuitive..

 

[sigbergaudio]

It's their format that makes them such a target.
It's anti-intuitive for a tower speaker not to able to cover dynamics over 75db average (so 85db max,105db peak) and that's NOT with high demanding material.

But as long as numbers are out there by a trustworthy measurement it's up to anyone to decide (or ask if he can't read the charts) .
That's why we have to have a nice complete set of data like this.

I kind of see your point, but have you seen them in real life? They are REALLY narrow, so in practice very small.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Excellent post Thorbjorn I fully agree.

On an unrelated point, do you see any similarities between this speaker and the Manta? Things that came to my mind were the small bump in midbass, the design axis being slightly off-axis and the prioritisation of listening window response over a perfect on-axis response (the latter two are related I suppose).

Design axis slightly off axis is relatively common for coax drivers.

The bump in the midbass is present in all our speakers, and in a number of Kef speakers as well, soI will naturally agree that it is a good idea. So I suspect the the sound signature philosophy of Kef and Sigberg is relatively similar.

At a recent hifi show here in Norway, the Blade Meta was certainly the speaker of everything there that I found to have a sound signature closest to my heart.

@Purité Audio has heard both the LS60 and the Manta in the same room I think, I don't know if he can comment on any similarities in sound.

It's perhaps even more similar to the SBS.1 - here is the comparison of listening window + sound power ER / DI: