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Kef LS60 wireless review by ErinsAudioCorner

Puddingbuks said:
I had the genelec 8331 on trial. Magnificent speaker but it really couldn't play loud. Limiter red light showed up very soon. Had to return it. Although some months in between, I would think the LS60 can play considerably louder.
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How far from the speakers were you sitting?
 
Puddingbuks said:
What is different in the blade that its mid/high driver can play so loud?
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Just to not confuse, the discussion above your post here was about the ls50, not the ls60. The ls50 does not have separate bass drivers at all, which will severely limit the maximum output ocmpared to both the ls60 and Blade.
 
Mine are over three metres away they are more than loud enough, I know the ideal is to have 124dB continuous but in the real world 95dB is extremely loud, uncomfortably and ultimately deafeningly loud.
Keith
 
The largest power consumer for audio are low frequencies and that's what subwoofers are for. It seems that they can reach around 84 db (max SPL I listen to stuff, and not continually) even in a relatively large space.

Those were my SPL requirements for the LS50 WII I use and they're more than capable.
 
Purité Audio said:
but in the real world 95dB is extremely loud, uncomfortably and ultimately deafeningly loud.
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95dB is not loud at all under 100hz, at 50hz it sounds like 65dB at 1khz. These speakers have a slightly bass heavy tuning, so they're going to limit even sooner due to that.

Are most people going to be fine? Well, probably. If you listen at 75dB average, your curve is bass heavy by 5dB and your music has no more than 15dB peaks, then yes you'll stay (barely) within the limit.

But if you listen to higher dynamic range music, even at reasonable levels, then these speakers will SHARPLY limit. Especially at distances longer than 1m, which are likely for floorstanders. I've measured 107dB peaks at the listening position(~2.5m) in my own system, when playing music at a very reasonable 76dB average. These speakers just wouldn't play that track correctly at all.

That's for music. For HT these speakers fall way below SPL specs of any standard(Atmos, THX, DTS, whatever) at any distance.

Puddingbuks said:
4 meters.
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Right, the 8331A are designed to sit on a desk and be used at sub-1m distances. They only have a ~5" woofer. They won't work well at 4m. It's concerning if their limits are actually higher than the LS60 at ANY frequency!

Genelec actually tells you when you hit the limit. So that makes it even easier to tell. Most people aren't going to notice 2dB of compression without the light telling them so.
 
Sancus said:
But if you listen to higher dynamic range music, even at reasonable levels, then these speakers will SHARPLY limit. Especially at distances longer than 1m, which are likely for floorstanders. I've measured 107dB peaks at the listening position(~2.5m) in my own system, when playing music at a very reasonable 76dB average. These speakers just wouldn't play that track correctly at all.
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I get what you’re saying, 31dB peaks are hardly the norm though. Many setups would struggle with that.
 
Purité Audio said:
Mine are over three metres away they are more than loud enough, I know the ideal is to have 124dB continuous but in the real world 95dB is extremely loud, uncomfortably and ultimately deafeningly loud.
Keith
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Hoe do you think they compare to the LS60?
 
Chester said:
I get what you’re saying, 31dB peaks are hardly the norm though. Many setups would struggle with that.
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Agreed that's not normal, but if you have 15dB peaks, your bass tuning is +5dB, and your average level is 80, they will compress >3dB. That's something buyers should be aware of and people who need more can find better for the price.
 
Capacity is so vastly underrated it's not even funny. Especially in decent acoustical conditions and/or in situations where EQ in the bass range is involved.
Let's not pretend this speaker can play 96 dB at 1m. At that point all that remains is honky tonky midrange. Fine for a small apartment, but let's not try to fool anyone into thinking this is state of the art - or even close to it. It's a toy speaker.

KEF-LS60-0-_Compression.png
 
Absolute said:
Capacity is so vastly underrated it's not even funny. Especially in decent acoustical conditions and/or in situations where EQ in the bass range is involved.
Let's not pretend this speaker can play 96 dB at 1m. At that point all that remains is honky tonky midrange. Fine for a small apartment, but let's not try to fool anyone into thinking this is state of the art - or even close to it. It's a toy speaker.

KEF-LS60-0-_Compression.png
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Yeah. It's tiring with
"you only need 30 Watts"
"Calculations show xx dB at x m. is this not loud enough?"

Full range? -Not a chance in hell.
 
Absolute said:
Capacity is so vastly underrated it's not even funny. Especially in decent acoustical conditions and/or in situations where EQ in the bass range is involved.
Let's not pretend this speaker can play 96 dB at 1m. At that point all that remains is honky tonky midrange. Fine for a small apartment, but let's not try to fool anyone into thinking this is state of the art - or even close to it. It's a toy speaker.

KEF-LS60-0-_Compression.png
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Hardly.

If you want loud go get some JBLs, passive of active, JTR, or RTJ etc....

It's one of the best speakers you can get in its class for its intended use.
 
Battlebeast said:
Hardly.

If you want loud go get some JBLs, passive of active, JTR, or RTJ etc....

It's one of the best speakers you can get in its class for its intended use.
Click to expand...
Yes, if it's intended for background music in small places. For me such all-inclusive, do-it-all home-friendly speakers should be able to play music and movies alike with decent spl levels. These classy little things can't get close to enjoyable levels for a movie night.
I would easily forgive them if they cost 2k, maybe even close to 3k if stretching it.
But 7k? C'mon, let's be real.

These may seem like fighting words, but that's because they are. These speakers have good tonality and directivity, are nice, pretty and convenient for sure. But for any kind of remotely enthusiastic work they politely tell you to bugger off and play nice, luscious elevator music again.
As an avid supporter of value for money these things are so far off the chart in the wrong direction that I struggle to find words. So here's some pictures instead to demonstrate how ridiculous it is.

The Swissonic A306 (250$ a pair!!) shows how over-priced these things are.

CEA2034-Thomann-Swissonic-A306.png
Thomann-Swissonic-A306_Compression.png


And let's go further, let's compare the directivity directly;

giphy.gif


Thomann Swissonic A306 2-Way Bookshelf Speaker Review

Thomann Swissonic A306 2-Way Bookshelf Speaker Review
www.erinsaudiocorner.com


Now, I'm not implying this demonstrates that the cheapest good speaker I've seen will equal the sound quality of LS60. But I'm saying that we as a community should be careful to exclaim that good tonality, design and user-friendliness alone is enough to shout hallelujah from the rooftops.

I am not impressed by a 7k active floor-standing speaker that will be outperformed in dynamic capabilities by almost any small shoebox speaker at any price. And frankly, I'm surprised so many are.
 
I'm curious if the speaker lets up on the limiters if the sub outs are engaged. That would make some sense. And yes it needs subs anyway because there's already more than 3dB compression at 30hz/86dB, it's only "full range" below 80dB. Which frankly makes it only full range on paper.
 
This is another example of a small nice speaker trying to do a large speakers job-->
www.audiosciencereview.com

Buchardt Anniversary 10 Measurements and Review

This speaker is from Buchardt, a manufacturer based in Denmark. Someone purchased their 10th anniversary model and sent it to me for measurement. In Korea, there's no official distributor for this product, so to acquire it, one would have to contact the Danish headquarters for a direct...
www.audiosciencereview.com www.audiosciencereview.com
 
I am greatly in favor of speakers with high dynamic range myself, but I think it is a bit unfair to make a big point about this in this review thread. The LS60 isn't a large speaker by any means, and no one should expect it to have massive SPL numbers. It's like buying a small car and complaining it is small. The LS60 is small by design to cater for those who want smaller speakers.

So while the topic of dynamics is an interesting discussion, I'm not sure it should take place in the LS60 review thread? :)
 
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