KEF LS50 Wireless II + KEF KC92 sub Vs. Buchardt A10 Speakers + Buchardt SUB10?

[cEbNVDyfMy]

UPDATE:

Ended up purchasing the Dutch & Dutch 8c, reasoning later in thread.

Hi All,

Can I have your opinion on the KEF LS50 Wireless II + KEF KC92 sub (with wireless adaptor) Vs. Buchardt A10 Speakers + Buchardt SUB10? I'm not the biggest fan of WiSA but I am a big fan of active speakers. I don't want to play the component integration game. I like to play fairly bass heavy music (electronic, dance) jazz and soul jazz with some small group classical around 85db max in room, and am very sensitive to poor quality bass and poorly integrated bass. Source is streaming via Roon primarily.

My listening position is 3.1 meters from the speakers.


I currently have the Buchardt A10 Speakers + Buchardt SUB10 in this room and demoing the system. I like it but it feels like at higher volumes it is suffering, perhaps this is the compression / distortion that has been measured by Erin? I'm not sure but at higher volumes there is something I don't like where overall details are smeared. I'm using the Buchardt room correction software which only corrects fro 20-1000Hz.

I'm even considering a pair of Dutch & Dutch 8c. This is an entirely different expense level I realize. I've also read that the D&D 8c do suffer at higher volumes as well. How is this compared to the Buchardts?

I'm open to other options as well.

The main listening area is roughly square, with a hallway attached in one corner connecting it to another small room. There is no door partitioning the listening are to the other small room.

1. Dimensions of Listening space:
• Length: 12 feet 10 inches = 12.83 feet (3.91 meters)
• Width: 11 feet 6 inches = 11.5 feet (3.51 meters)
• Height: 9 feet (2.74 meters)
2. Volume Calculation:
• Volume in cubic feet: 1326.22
• Volume in cubic meters: 37.62

1. Combined Dimensions of listening space + space connected by short hallway without a door:
Length: 25.16 feet (7.67 meters)
Width: 11.5 feet (3.51 meters)
Height: 9 feet (2.74 meters)
Combined Area: 289.34 square feet (26.91 square meters)
Combined Volume: 2604.06 cubic feet (73.73 cubic meters)

 

[terryforsythe]

I like it but it feels like at higher volumes it is suffering

Compare their Harmonic Distortion and Compression (Response Linearity) data:

Kef LS50 Wireless II Speaker Review

Kef LS50 Wireless II Speaker Review

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

Buchardt Anniversay 10 Powered Speaker Review

Buchardt Anniversay 10 Speaker

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

You may want to look at something that's not struggling to get down to the hand off to the subwoofer at high volume, depending on what crossover frequency you are using. With the Buchardt the THD looks good, it is just that the compression is struggling at 96dB (which is very loud). I suspect that the protection circuitry is kicking in.

 

[Purité Audio]

I haven’t tried the Buchardts but I do have the LS50s and KC62 and the D&Ds they really aren’t comparable ot least in terms of price .
If you could afford the 8Cs you would never need to buy another pair of loudspeakers.
Keith

 

[awf]

I'd suggest measuring the frequency response (with MiniDSP UMIK-1 and REW or even an iPhone with HouseCurve) to find out what you don't feel right. 85db in your room size shouldn't be too demanding.

 

[Ogoript]

I have the Kef Wireless II with 2 KC 62 Subs. When I added the 2nd sub, it really rounded out the sound. As you mentioned, i don't sit too far away about 3 meters and don't need it to get too loud. The Kef app really allows for easy integration with the subs including high and low pass and setting up the subwoofers in stereo if desired which makes each sub/speaker like a single full range speaker. The KEF combo sounds great, I do get upgrade-its though. Might look at LS60s at some point, but was also considering the A10s.

 

[cEbNVDyfMy]

I haven’t tried the Buchardts but I do have the LS50s and KC62 and the D&Ds they really aren’t comparable ot least in terms of price .
If you could afford the 8Cs you would never need to buy another pair of loudspeakers.
Keith

Keith, I trialed all three options and decided to keep the Dutch & Dutch 8c pair. Given the price differential I don't think it is a "fair" comparison honestly and the others are very good products. Once I heard the D&D very capable subbass and transparent bass/midbass I was sold. I suspect this is due to the cardioid capabilities.

 

[cEbNVDyfMy]

Keith, I trialed all three options and decided to keep the Dutch & Dutch 8c pair. Given the price differential I don't think it is a "fair" comparison honestly and the others are very good products. Once I heard the D&D very capable subbass and transparent bass/midbass I was sold. I suspect this is due to the cardioid capabilities.

Update, I continue to enjoy my 8Cs. Since getting them set up I've had very little desire to tinker and have not been reading ASR very much, which I think is good evidence I am satisfied. I just turn them on, enjoy my music, and turn them off. I have almost zero GAS habits any longer...refreshing. Great product. Only problem is their app called Ascend works inconsistently with minimal updates. Usually it will work upon initial launch but when I switch to another app then back to Ascend on my iPhone it ceases to work, I need to quit an relaunch it to work. I submitted a bug report many months ago and it was not fixed. It was suggested I use an unmanaged switch to address this behavior but that makes little sense to me. Seems like they could improve it easily but they are very slow to do so.

 

[Martijn Mensink]

Update, I continue to enjoy my 8Cs. Since getting them set up I've had very little desire to tinker and have not been reading ASR very much, which I think is good evidence I am satisfied. I just turn them on, enjoy my music, and turn them off. I have almost zero GAS habits any longer...refreshing. Great product. Only problem is their app called Ascend works inconsistently with minimal updates. Usually it will work upon initial launch but when I switch to another app then back to Ascend on my iPhone it ceases to work, I need to quit an relaunch it to work. I submitted a bug report many months ago and it was not fixed. It was suggested I use an unmanaged switch to address this behavior but that makes little sense to me. Seems like they could improve it easily but they are very slow to do so.

Thanks for the kind words and for using the 8c exactly as we envisioned: switch it on, enjoy the music, switch it off.

In all honesty, I completely understand the frustration with the current Ascend app. After switching from Android to iOS a few months ago, I ran into the same issue you describe: it connects quickly at launch but drops the link when you jump to another app. I asked our developers about this, and they explained that it’s a side-effect of the hybrid “web-page-in-a-shell” architecture we adopted years ago (the same app can also be loaded at app.ascend.audio). That setup makes even small fixes surprisingly slow to roll out, and apparently some things seem not to be fixable at all.

We’ve therefore decided to rebuild rather than patch. A fully native app is now in development, aimed at instant 8c discovery, rock-solid background connectivity, a cleaner, more responsive interface, and a host of useful new features. We expect to release it toward the end of this year.

In the meantime, you can bookmark the web app and add it to your home screen. Even better, use the locally hosted version on your 8c by browsing to http://8c-xxxx.local (replace the x’s with your 8c’s serial number). That's how I've been using Ascend the past few weeks and it's worked flawlessly.

 

[Talal]

Thanks for the kind words and for using the 8c exactly as we envisioned: switch it on, enjoy the music, switch it off.

In all honesty, I completely understand the frustration with the current Ascend app. After switching from Android to iOS a few months ago, I ran into the same issue you describe: it connects quickly at launch but drops the link when you jump to another app. I asked our developers about this, and they explained that it’s a side-effect of the hybrid “web-page-in-a-shell” architecture we adopted years ago (the same app can also be loaded at app.ascend.audio). That setup makes even small fixes surprisingly slow to roll out, and apparently some things seem not to be fixable at all.

We’ve therefore decided to rebuild rather than patch. A fully native app is now in development, aimed at instant 8c discovery, rock-solid background connectivity, a cleaner, more responsive interface, and a host of useful new features. We expect to release it toward the end of this year.

In the meantime, you can bookmark the web app and add it to your home screen. Even better, use the locally hosted version on your 8c by browsing to http://8c-xxxx.local (replace the x’s with your 8c’s serial number). That's how I've been using Ascend the past few weeks and it's worked flawlessly.

Thanks for the update and your great work. Also very much enjoy my 8Cs.

In my case the longstanding issue with disconnection when minimising the iOS app to background was resolved with a recent update of Ascend.

I use an unmanaged switch. TP-Link SG105 I think.

Am I correct in assuming the anticipated Qobuz and DLNA integration will arrive with the new app towards the end of the year rather than an earlier update to the current app?

Not an issue, just considering whether to patch together an alternative solution for my use case as a stopgap or to wait for these features.

 

[cEbNVDyfMy]

Thanks for the kind words and for using the 8c exactly as we envisioned: switch it on, enjoy the music, switch it off.

In all honesty, I completely understand the frustration with the current Ascend app. After switching from Android to iOS a few months ago, I ran into the same issue you describe: it connects quickly at launch but drops the link when you jump to another app. I asked our developers about this, and they explained that it’s a side-effect of the hybrid “web-page-in-a-shell” architecture we adopted years ago (the same app can also be loaded at app.ascend.audio). That setup makes even small fixes surprisingly slow to roll out, and apparently some things seem not to be fixable at all.

We’ve therefore decided to rebuild rather than patch. A fully native app is now in development, aimed at instant 8c discovery, rock-solid background connectivity, a cleaner, more responsive interface, and a host of useful new features. We expect to release it toward the end of this year.

In the meantime, you can bookmark the web app and add it to your home screen. Even better, use the locally hosted version on your 8c by browsing to http://8c-xxxx.local (replace the x’s with your 8c’s serial number). That's how I've been using Ascend the past few weeks and it's worked flawlessly.

Thank you for the update Martjin. Especially for your working recording professionals, a 100% reliable and rock solid app is required. What other useful new features do you plan to release? One I could suggest would be switching BACCH on and off faster with zero or closer to zero delay for easier A/B comparison on vs. off.

 

[Martijn Mensink]

In studio environments, most people control the 8c’s via a browser. Accessing them through http://8c-xxxx.local is generally very reliable. The current native app is essentially a browser in a shell, and that can sometimes be problematic.

Switching BACCH on or off takes only a fraction of a second. Any delay you’re noticing is likely due to the inherent length of the BACCH filter itself. It should still be not more than about a second.