Kef LS60 wireless review by ErinsAudioCorner

[Muddywaters]

Sorry for clogging up the thread here are the four individual files.

 

[bkdc]

The only part I’m turned off by is the wireless thing. I think KEF should make a non-powered version of this speaker. It looks fantastic.

 

[sweetchaos]

Looks like Kef has extended the promo until:
January 17, for the US market.
January 18, for Canadian market.
January 3, for EU market.

 

[terryforsythe]

Sorry for clogging up the thread here are the four individual files.

Have you measured the LS60s without the subs? It would be interesting to see whether the big dip is wholly due to the room response or there are phasing issues between the speakers and the subs.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

The only part I’m turned off by is the wireless thing. I think KEF should make a non-powered version of this speaker. It looks fantastic.

I use it wired but there would be much lost if they were "non-powered." DSP is an essential element in its success.

 

[Ron Texas]

I'm impressed that the preference score without a sub is almost as good as with a sub. These are likely no sub needed speakers.

 

[terryforsythe]

I'm impressed that the preference score without a sub is almost as good as with a sub. These are likely no sub needed speakers.

In my room, 11.6' x 13.6' x 12', the LS60s do fantastic on their own. No sub needed.

 

[terryforsythe]

Sorry for clogging up the thread here are the four individual files.

Have you measured the LS60s without the subs? It would be interesting to see whether the big dip is wholly due to the room response or there are phasing issues between the speakers and the subs.

If the dip is caused, at least in part, by phasing issues between the speakers and the subs, you may want to investigate adding a variable time delay between the LS60 sub outputs and the subs.

Although I don't need a sub in my room, for those that do, it would be really great if in the next firmware release KEF would provide an adjustable time delay for the sub out instead of just the 0 deg. and 180 deg. toggle. In my experience the simple toggle switches never work well, and getting the speakers and subs seamlessly crossed over with the toggle switches never works.

 

[terryforsythe]

Looks like Kef has extended the promo until:
January 17, for the US market.
January 18, for Canadian market.
January 3, for EU market.

I suspect that the sale stirred up a lot of interest in those KEF products that were on sale. When the UPS (freight) guy dropped mine off the day after Christmas, he said that my LS60s were the second set he delivered that day in my same general area.

 

[GA16SE]

In my room, 11.6' x 13.6' x 12', the LS60s do fantastic on their own. No sub needed.

A few months ago, I asked KEF whether or not a subwoofer was needed. Their answer: “a subwoofer is not necessary/needed with the LS60W but the capability was included for users who wish to use the LS60W as part of a larger system ie home theatre”.

 

[Ron Texas]

In my room, 11.6' x 13.6' x 12', the LS60s do fantastic on their own. No sub needed.

It's refreshing to hear someone is happy with their gear. I believe the LS60 is a great product which is not getting the recognition it deserves.

 

[terryforsythe]

A few months ago, I asked KEF whether or not a subwoofer was needed. Their answer: “a subwoofer is not necessary/needed with the LS60W but the capability was included for users who wish to use the LS60W as part of a larger system ie home theatre”.

The LS60 Wireless, in my opinion, is a very, very good speaker, and a tremendous value at the sale price of $5,000. The engineers who worked on it should be very proud. It, however, is not perfect.

The most significant point on which they dropped the ball, especially since they envision the LS60s being used in home theaters, is that their subwoofer integration appears, at least to me, to be an after thought without much engineering effort. The engineers clearly are talented - I would be shocked if they were not aware of subwoofer integration issues when only a 0 deg./180 deg. phase toggle switch is provided instead of variable time delay, or instead of variable phase delay from 0 deg. through 180 in combination with the toggle switch.

Also, as others have noted, at least some parametric equalization would be nice. If they are worried about people getting carried away with it and causing damage to the speakers, they easily can put gain limits.

I presume that both of those issues could be addressed with a firmware update and an update to the KEF Connect app. I'm really hoping something like that comes through. That will take the LS60s to the next level.

 

[Sancus]

The LS60 doesn't even have a delay setting for its subwoofer outputs? That seems really odd to me when even subwoofers themselves are starting to build that into their own onboard software.

 

[terryforsythe]

The LS60 doesn't even have a delay setting for its subwoofer outputs?

Nope. Just the toggle, labeled in the KEF Connect app as "Sub polarity".

 

[GA16SE]

..........The engineers clearly are talented - I would be shocked if they were not aware of subwoofer integration issues............

I think that at least two of the engineers within KEF R&D team are well aware of various issues as they read and wrote in this thread.

 

[Puddingbuks]

The LS60 Wireless, in my opinion, is a very, very good speaker, and a tremendous value at the sale price of $5,000. The engineers who worked on it should be very proud. It, however, is not perfect.

The most significant point on which they dropped the ball, especially since they envision the LS60s being used in home theaters, is that their subwoofer integration appears, at least to me, to be an after thought without much engineering effort.

In 99% of the setups, bass management, crossover, distances, etc. is handled by the AV receiver with dirac, audyssey, roomperfect, etc.

In that scenario, the LS60 functions as the left and right speakers (or back). LS60 form factor isn’t likely to fit as a center.

Weak points of the LS60 imo:
- Wireless speed is dropping so low it causes dropouts in wireless playback. Happens also when connected to another router and internet speed is 500mbps. I have tried to connect it to erhernet, but it keeps using wireless, I can’t find any option to use ethernet only? But then again, a LS60 wireless should have an excellent wireless audio transmission.
- Speaker units are not physically protected and therefore very vulnerable.

My wireless speed and connection type according to the kef app:

 

[sweetchaos]

- Wireless speed is dropping so low it causes dropouts in wireless playback. Happens also when connected to another router and internet speed is 500mbps. I have tried to connect it to erhernet, but it keeps using wireless, I can’t find any option to use ethernet only?

That sounds like a bug to me.

For example:
If you have a Windows laptop and you're connected to wifi already, then if you connect your ethernet cable, Windows knows that ethernet has become available and will switch over to it automatically, even-though wifi was technically connected at that moment.

The only thing I can think of, is since the LS60W is literally a computer, is it needs to be restarted, after you've plugged in your ethernet cable.

 

[Muddywaters]

If the dip is caused, at least in part, by phasing issues between the speakers and the subs, you may want to investigate adding a variable time delay between the LS60 sub outputs and the subs.

Although I don't need a sub in my room, for those that do, it would be really great if in the next firmware release KEF would provide an adjustable time delay for the sub out instead of just the 0 deg. and 180 deg. toggle. In my experience the simple toggle switches never work well, and getting the speakers and subs seamlessly crossed over with the toggle switches never works.

I haven’t measured the LS60’s alone since I moved the out from the front wall. I was getting a SBIR dip around 415Hz that pulling them out eliminated.

Realizing the low end is problematic with the subs and reading here (ASR) SBIR was likely impacting the subs I turned them sideways getting the driver centers much closer to the front/sidewall boundaries. I was surprised (subjectively) how much cleaner the bass sounded. Haven’t measured yet but will today and will shut the subs off and measure too.

 

[Sokel]

So is Erin's new multi-tone compression test the same as @Nuyes compression tests that he typically posts?
Here's the graph from Nuyes's Buchardt Anniversary 10 review (also an active speaker):

Just trying to understand if we can compare apples to apples.

Erin has the full explanation of his method for this test, on his written review of the LS60W.

It sure looks like they are the same test.
It would be nice for them to follow the same,much easier for us to follow through.

 

[sweetchaos]

Erin has responded to me and said this about @Nuyes compression test:

I just pulled up one of his tests and I can say for sure that you can’t compare them directly because for my multitone testing I start at 70 dB whereas he starts at 76. He is trying to emulate my sine sweep testing it seems, but using a different test signal in using MTON. I explain why I don’t go to 102 dB for the multitone in that video today. I lay everything out about how I test, what stimulus, the length of the stimulus, and the output levels on my website. So he should be able to look at that and tell you guys whether or not he’s doing the same things as I am. But from my eyes, it doesn’t look like they are the same tests.