KEF LS60 Wireless Just Announced

[kemmler3D]

The KC62 does indeed reach 11 Hz and I could confirm it with a microphone and the "infamous" Edge of Tomorrow start scene.

The trick is how low the spl is at those frequencies.

KEF says -3dB at 11hz which is a little hard to believe next to the 105dB max SPL spec. But they don't say it's -3dB from max, just... -3. So yeah... my guess is the max SPL at 11hz is low 80s, high 70s, on a good day, in room.

 

[Vacceo]

KEF says -3dB at 11hz which is a little hard to believe next to the 105dB max SPL spec. But they don't say it's -3dB from max, just... -3. So yeah... my guess is the max SPL at 11hz is low 80s, high 70s, on a good day, in room.

The windows will not rattle, that's for sure. But yeah, they reach very low, also at very low volume, but they do reach it.

 

[NYfan2]

I used to do marketing for an audio manufacturer (with some overlap on support) and frankly, if my users expected hi-fi sound and someone suggested building in a PEQ, I'd at least make them promise to bury it in a developer-mode menu somewhere.

EQ is fine when people don't have specific expectations for sound. The typical audiophile doesn't really know how to use a PEQ and there are JUST enough of them that will 1) make things worse and then 2) return the speakers or burden support staff with their user error that it's not worth it.

People who know what they're doing (us) also know enough to set up PEQ some other way. We're going to buy the speaker anyway... and so our convenience doesn't outweigh KEF's inconvenience here, unfortunately.

A few months ago when there was a demo of the new KEF R-series and the KEF representative also connected the LS60 and Blades I actually asked if there was a possibility for PEQ in the LS60 to address room modes. Answer from the KEF representative: Wow, then you really need to know what you are doing, you can use Roon because that has PEQ built in.
Guess that was a pretty good answer.

 

[Vacceo]

Compatibility with Dirac could easily adress that concern, as the speakers have the hardware to implement its corrections.

 

[Soniclife]

Answer from the KEF representative: Wow, then you really need to know what you are doing, you can use Roon because that has PEQ built in.
Guess that was a pretty good answer.

It's only a good answer for roon, it won't help any other source. Maybe they should release a 'pro' version with all the streaming and config smarts taken out, for people who are going to be forced to provide their own solution.

 

[kemmler3D]

It's only a good answer for roon, it won't help any other source. Maybe they should release a 'pro' version with all the streaming and config smarts taken out, for people who are going to be forced to provide their own solution.

I'd settle for a firmware update that removed all the EQ presets and just opened up X (20 would be lovely) bands of PEQ.

 

[Emlin]

I'd settle for a firmware update that removed all the EQ presets and just opened up X (20 would be lovely) bands of PEQ.

Yes, make it optional and problem solved.

 

[Ron Texas]

The windows will not rattle, that's for sure. But yeah, they reach very low, also at very low volume, but they do reach it.

Your windows can rattle for free. Just live near a freight rail line.

 

[Trouble Maker]

Your windows can rattle for free. Just live near a freight rail line.

Living in an old house with original single pane windows works wonders too.

 

[Vacceo]

Your windows can rattle for free. Just live near a freight rail line.

I actually do.

 

[Ron Texas]

I actually do.

LOL!

 

[Vacceo]

LOL!

That's why I know what infrasonics do...

 

[kemmler3D]

That's why I know what infrasonics do...

In the place I'm leaving at the end of the week, we have ancient, drafty, single-paned windows, we're on the first floor, and there's a city bus route on our street. Add to that the numerous fire trucks, delivery trucks, and motorcycling enthusiasts who use our street as a thoroughfare and yeah there's quite a bit of rattling.

But I would not trade places with you even if the only noise source was the train! That, you can probably hear through the floor in the basement...

 

[Daka]

Is anyone using LS60 in HT setup? Are they good to be used without center channel? Any other pros and cons? At the moment using R3 meta + R6 meta but was thinking if I can save some space and perhaps get even better performance.

 

[Danaxus]

Is anyone using LS60 in HT setup? Are they good to be used without center channel? Any other pros and cons? At the moment using R3 meta + R6 meta but was thinking if I can save some space and perhaps get even better performance.

I bought them for the purpose of HT. It's currently being built and should be ready by the end of the year. Here's where my research rabbit hole led me:

If you set up your L&R speakers perfectly, and have a nice clear phantom centre speaker, then you don't need a centre channel. There are two issues however, that make a centre channel really nice to have:
a) phantom centre only works for a single listening position
b) it's delicate AF, so if you shift your position (move the chair, recline, lean forward, etc), you'll break the phantom centre

A centre speaker means you don't need to worry about any of that stuff - everything will just work, for every sitting position. Indeed, some Auro3D layouts even recommend a centre-height speaker! That said...I'm not convinced that a full-range speaker is needed for the centre. The lower the frequency, the harder it is to localise. I figure the centre's main value will be for mid-range clarity (voices, etc), in which case an R3 meta, or even an LS50 Meta, might do the trick nicely? I'll look into this later, though I'd love the community's feedback on this.

I'm not sure how you'd save space going LS60. Essentially you'd be replacing the R3's on stands, with floor-standing speakers - they should take up the same footprint. As for full-range, if you're serious about HT you need a substantial subwoofer, regardless of how full-range your speakers are. The LS60 will benefit from something hefty like an SVS PB-4000 or SB16, just as much as the R3 Metas would.


You can always start a thread, post pictures of your setup, along with a floor plan, and solicit advice from the community. There are some really active and helpful members that are sure to provide feedback.

 

[Daka]

I bought them for the purpose of HT. It's currently being built and should be ready by the end of the year. Here's where my research rabbit hole led me:

If you set up your L&R speakers perfectly, and have a nice clear phantom centre speaker, then you don't need a centre channel. There are two issues however, that make a centre channel really nice to have:
a) phantom centre only works for a single listening position
b) it's delicate AF, so if you shift your position (move the chair, recline, lean forward, etc), you'll break the phantom centre

A centre speaker means you don't need to worry about any of that stuff - everything will just work, for every sitting position. Indeed, some Auro3D layouts even recommend a centre-height speaker! That said...I'm not convinced that a full-range speaker is needed for the centre. The lower the frequency, the harder it is to localise. I figure the centre's main value will be for mid-range clarity (voices, etc), in which case an R3 meta, or even an LS50 Meta, might do the trick nicely? I'll look into this later, though I'd love the community's feedback on this.

I'm not sure how you'd save space going LS60. Essentially you'd be replacing the R3's on stands, with floor-standing speakers - they should take up the same footprint. As for full-range, if you're serious about HT you need a substantial subwoofer, regardless of how full-range your speakers are. The LS60 will benefit from something hefty like an SVS PB-4000 or SB16, just as much as the R3 Metas would.


You can always start a thread, post pictures of your setup, along with a floor plan, and solicit advice from the community. There are some really active and helpful members that are sure to provide feedback.

Thanks for detailed reply. Much appreciated.
I did experiment with phantom center and indeed it is all the things you have mentioned. What makes me ask this question is because I came across some reviews stating that ls60 soundstage doesn’t shift much even when you go from side to side? Made me wonder if those side firing woofers would make a better phantom that doesn’t shift much when sitting in different positions on 3 person sofa.
In terms of space saving - it’s quite a bit narrower, but more importantly there would be no chunky center channel - and as many people who bought it - much higher other half approval factor. Other motive for this change is having full range speakers that would help with Dirac ART when it finally lands on Arcam (fingers crossed). I have 7.(2).4 at the moment so subwoofers are present.
So all in all 3 potential benefits:
- acceptable phantom center - no chunky center speaker - happier partner, one chunky amp less also
- full range speakers for Dirac Art support
- ability to airplay to them rather than turn entire hardware on
- expectation of even better soundstage - not that I’m complaining as R3 meta are excellent

 

[Butter]

My personal experience is using LS60 solo in the den TV room, so it's not a home theater, but for now it's the movie spot. Usage - check. Theater - nope.
Short version - LS60's sound better, deeper, clearer than the prior 3.1 setup, but... I feel we have to raise volume more than before to get best dialogue clarity.
But my priorities are stereo listening, then movies. And that room needed decluttering so the LS60 are perfect for small footprint big sound at medium volume.
If you're mainly into movies, maybe keep the R series add some more R series, and pursue ART.
I'm also setting up ART in my new room which is much larger: HTP-1, Purifi amp, R11, R6, SVS, etc

 

[Vacceo]

My personal experience is using LS60 solo in the den TV room, so it's not a home theater, but for now it's the movie spot. Usage - check. Theater - nope.
Short version - LS60's sound better, deeper, clearer than the prior 3.1 setup, but... I feel we have to raise volume more than before to get best dialogue clarity.
But my priorities are stereo listening, then movies. And that room needed decluttering so the LS60 are perfect for small footprint big sound at medium volume.
If you're mainly into movies, maybe keep the R series add some more R series, and pursue ART.
I'm also setting up ART in my new room which is much larger: HTP-1, Purifi amp, R11, R6, SVS, etc

It males sense as you are going from a dedicated dialogue speaker to dialogue sent to a stereo pair.

LS active center channel, KEF, please...

 

[Daka]

My personal experience is using LS60 solo in the den TV room, so it's not a home theater, but for now it's the movie spot. Usage - check. Theater - nope.
Short version - LS60's sound better, deeper, clearer than the prior 3.1 setup, but... I feel we have to raise volume more than before to get best dialogue clarity.
But my priorities are stereo listening, then movies. And that room needed decluttering so the LS60 are perfect for small footprint big sound at medium volume.
If you're mainly into movies, maybe keep the R series add some more R series, and pursue ART.
I'm also setting up ART in my new room which is much larger: HTP-1, Purifi amp, R11, R6, SVS, etc

I would use it connected to AVR and room corrected when watching movies - unclear dialogue sounds like low end has big room gain. I do wonder if compared for HT, R11 vs ls60 as LR which ones would sound better.
R11 meta costs now more than LS60, and whilst R11 for HT would work great I need LR for dual duty and I like R3 meta sound much more than R3, would not go back to older R for that.

 

[pablolie]

There is no reason why they would not perform brilliantly with a HT environment. I personally have never once felt the need for a center speaker anyhow.

I want a pair, but KEF these days has a tendency to release an updated, supposedly "much superior" version with a marketing paper and what not after a few years that I find a bit exasperating. I'll wait until they come out in red.