Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

[USER]

This was our reference in the 1970s in a recording studio. We had an historic archive of concert performances cut to disc before tape. Our reference arms were the SAE 3000? large diameter disc curved on a large mass large diameter 16"? mains synced platter. At home at the time, I had a V15-IV on a Philips GA312 which I gave to a friend to sell at a garage sale in the 90s. Then I went linear tracking for distortion before getting out of vinyl. There are probably some AES papers useful to your project.

If you want comments like this on another thread, glad to move it.

Feel free to discuss the cartridges themselves (I like your story about the cartridge being used as a reference!) but anything involving the script, theory, or measuring technique that doesn't come out of the measurements themselves would get a better response in the appropriate threads. Do read the threads I link to, especially the first two (though it takes a bit for them to get going). I think you will find them interesting. Scott Wurcer's work is awesome and a lot of the topics mentioned have been covered.

 

[Thomas_A]

Shure V15 Vx with Jico SAS/Boron stylus​

Notes

• Cross-talk/azimuth set at 1000 Hz using Ortofon test record (i.e. not optimised for CA-TRS1007), around -35 dB.
• Suggested load ≈150 pF and 33-47 kΩ.
• Stylus from 2018
• Channel balance about 0.6 dB

Update March 25 2024: New stylus arrived. The one that is painted red on the brush mechanism.

Combined 36k+47k for left and right we get:

Notes

• Cross-talk/azimuth set at 1000 Hz using Ortofon test record (i.e. not optimised for CA-TRS1007). Crosstalk a bit higher than with old stylus though (≈ -27 dB)
• Suggested load ≈150 pF and 33-47 kΩ.
• Distortion lower than compared to the old stylus
• A bit different in channels in the highs. If true, different loading between channels can be done
• Channel balance better, about 0.2 dB.

 

[fricc]

RE: Shure V15 V

I have one of these, on a Thorens 160 with a Mission 774 arm (the original). I tried to characterize it with a HIFI News record, but indeed the record is not so good.

One thing I've found is that the brush "sings". I have been transcribing my best vinyl over the years, and you can hear in the quieter passages the music from and adjacent louder grooves. For this reason, I never use the brush, the arm/cartridge resonance is well matched in my case and my records are pretty flat.

I was wondering how much the brush impacts on the measurements. I would expect that the signal from the adjacent grooves shows up as "distortion", although it will probably not be at a harmonic multiple with what is being currently being played.

If any of the author of the measurements would be so kind to give it another spin without the brush, it would be extremely interesting to see if differences could be measured.

Thank you so much for this really cool thread!
- Fabio

 

[USER]

RE: Shure V15 V

I have one of these, on a Thorens 160 with a Mission 774 arm (the original). I tried to characterize it with a HIFI News record, but indeed the record is not so good.

One thing I've found is that the brush "sings". I have been transcribing my best vinyl over the years, and you can hear in the quieter passages the music from and adjacent louder grooves. For this reason, I never use the brush, the arm/cartridge resonance is well matched in my case and my records are pretty flat.

I was wondering how much the brush impacts on the measurements. I would expect that the signal from the adjacent grooves shows up as "distortion", although it will probably not be at a harmonic multiple with what is being currently being played.

If any of the author of the measurements would be so kind to give it another spin without the brush, it would be extremely interesting to see if differences could be measured.

Thank you so much for this really cool thread!
- Fabio

I have tested it without the brush in the past while making adjustments, and if I remember correctly the difference was something like a small low shelf filter boost at the lowest frequencies. Something like this:

However that was with the Denon DP-35F servo tonearm that already mitigates resonance down there. I'll put comparison measurements on a Denon DP-30L II on queue for the weekend. What I love about these measurements is that things like this have a million different results on the web solely based on hearsay. It is good to see empirical evidence!

 

[fricc]

I have tested it without the brush in the past while making adjustments, and if I remember correctly the difference was something like a small low shelf filter boost at the lowest frequencies. Something like this:
View attachment 296825

However that was with the Denon DP-35F servo tonearm that already mitigates resonance down there. I'll put comparison measurements on a Denon DP-30L II on queue for the weekend. What I love about these measurements is that things like this have a million different results on the web solely based on hearsay. It is good to see empirical evidence!

I was wondering what the impact is on the distortion measurement. I am pretty sure it actually dampens the LF resonances, but I'd like to quantify the distortion tradeoff we have with that.

 

[USER]

Stanton 680EE-S · D75S
Click to increase size

Notes

• Super rare, private-label, black-bodied, Stanton cartridge only available from select dealers
  • Like new Stereohedron stylus
• As best as I can tell it is a 680EE body --please let me know if otherwise!
• Extremely well-controlled high frequency resonance
  • The short cantilever helps as it has a lower mass
• Small difference between channel levels in this particular copy
• Excellent distortion measurements, especially at the top-end
• Excellent crosstalk measurements
  • Anything lower than -30dB gives the test record problems
    • Official measurement is the "phantom center" midpoint
  • Azimuth is spot on as left and right channel FR are parallel
    • Count the top part of the left channel waves above 10kHz
• This is the Stanton I kept

 

[USER]

I was wondering what the impact is on the distortion measurement. I am pretty sure it actually dampens the LF resonances, but I'd like to quantify the distortion tradeoff we have with that.

Yeah, I don't remember seeing any difference in distortion but we'll find out if that pops up in the measurements. I know it's an obvious question, but did you adjust the tracking to compensate for removing the brush?

 

[fricc]

Yeah, I don't remember seeing any difference in distortion but we'll find out if that pops up in the measurements. I know it's an obvious question, but did you adjust the tracking to compensate for removing the brush?

I track my V15 at ~1.25g.

I used the HIFI News and the Shure Obstacle Course records to measure things up.
I adjusted azimuth to eliminate phase differences between channels and VTA to minimize distortion at 1kHz.
I adjusted the weight and anti-skating force to maximize trackability across the whole record.

I also have a Stanton 881s. It has even worse singing brush issues, probably because the Stanton bristles are stiffer and track better...

 

[fricc]

Anybody in this thread in the SF Bay Area? It would be fun to meetup and do measurements and listening together

 

[fricc]

Nice to see that the Jico stylus measures reasonably well. I have been using various V15 Vs since it came out in the 80s. It has been my favorite cart since ever.
My NOS V15 V (bought it ~2005) has probably accumulated over 100 hours and I'm wondering if I should replace the stylus or just buy an Audio Technica

 

[fricc]

I have had several Stanton 881s and Shure V15Vs over the years. To me they sound quite similar, and I always loved their detailed rendering and good bass response.
From your measurements the Shure has a better HF response above 15kHz, probably the beryllium cantilever is actually better...

 

[USER]

My NOS V15 V (bought it ~2005) has probably accumulated over 100 hours and I'm wondering if I should replace the stylus or just buy an Audio Technica

The only real way to know for sure is with a microscope.

That being said among the 50+ measurements that I will be posting here over the long run are those of styli with significant wear. See the index for some clues as to the kinds of experiments I have conducted with the script. (Most are in the MM vs MI vs MC and Phono Cartridge Response Script threads if you want to see.) My wager is that you can in fact "see" wear in the measurements and that they can tell you when you should replace a stylus, provided there is a control measurement to use for comparison. This is why I like to include images of the diamonds when possible.

There is also a wear experiment that will be conducted sometime soon. See this thread for information:

Phonograph Stylus Wear Experiment

Based on discussions in various threads on multiple audio forums, the lifetime in wear hours of a phonograph stylus remains an open and frequently intensely debated question. Manufacturer’s claims for example range from a few hundred hours for conical styli, up to 500 hours for elliptical styli...

www.audiosciencereview.com

My examples are also there. They will be incorporating measurements and so hopefully we will get some solid information regarding wear and usage time in the near future.

 

[EJ3]

Shure V15 V-MR
Click to increase size
View attachment 296644View attachment 296645
Notes

• As good as it gets!
  • Essentially flat at ± 0.5 dB
• Lightly used, micro-ridge stylus with beryllium cantilever and dynamic stabilizer brush
• Denon DP-35F has a servo tonearm
  • Compare results at 20Hz with ones below to possibly see effect on resonance
• Recorded with Wayne Kirkwood Flat MM Phono Preamplifier (no RIAA for precision) and E1DA Cosmos ADC
• You need to record in 192k for full 3rd harmonic distortion data
• Crosstalk is limited with CA-TRS-1007 but center point at 1kHz should be the measurement (-30 dB)
• I also have copies that show a slight downward slope after 10kHz and I will run a comparison later

Confirmation of results
View attachment 296417View attachment 296418
Notes

• Here I used a Parks Audio Puffin on flat mode with digital out in order to compare and confirm results
  • 44.1 recording limits 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion data
• Here turntable is Denon DP-30L II (with low mass tonearm)
  • Non-quartz direct drive with much beefier motor and different tonearm
    • So much for turntables having completely different sound signatures!
    • Obviously wow & flutter, rumble, tonearm compatibility, loading, and set-up also matter

CBS STR-100
View attachment 296356View attachment 296357
Notes

• Biggest difference is a wide 0.5 dB bell dip in the frequency response
  • Account for set-up and general test record margin of error
  • CBS STR-100 test records generally vary a little above 10kHz (flattening helps some)
• Crosstalk is limited here to -25dB at 1kHz
• 2nd harmonic distortion is also more limited here at 1kHz to about -40 dB
• Still, this is the best test record still available and at a reasonable price!

I have this:
Features
- Beryllium MICROWALL/Be™ stylus shank provides unrivaled trackability for accurate sound reproduction
- MASAR™ -polished hyperelliptical stylus tip reduces record wear and distortion
- Exclusive SIDE-GUARD stylus protection system guards against accidental stylus damage
- P-mount construction for instant mounting with no further adjustments usually necessary
- The highest ever track ability at 1.25 grams for extended record and tip life
- Undeviating flat response, tightest tolerances ever achieved

Shure V15 Type V-P Phono Cartridge Specifications
- Output voltage @ 1kHz, 5cm/sec: 3.2mV
- Channel balance: 1.5dB
- Channel separation @ 1kHz/10kHz: 25/18dB
- Frequency response: 20Hz-20kHz
- Stylus type: .0002 x .0015 inch nude hyperelliptical
- Tracking force: 1.25 g
- Recommended load resistance: 47k ohms
- Color: Black/Light Gray
- Weight: 5.9 g
- Stylus replacement: Shure VN5P

Should I put the

Jico SAS/Boron stylus on it?​

 

[Balle Clorin]

Audio-Technica AT-OC9ML/II

Following information in order to make measurements useful to others:

• Cartridge: Audio-Technica OC9ML/II
• Stylus condition <100 hrs on vinyl, but laid 15 years in a drawer unopened
• Test record: ClearAudio TRS-1007 side A track 1&2 L/R stereo
• Turntable and arm: Michell Gyro SE. Measured peak wow <0.1%. Arm resonance with cart 6.5-7Hz
• Tracking force: 1.75g
• Phono stage and loading settings: Parks Audio Puffin. EQ=500R-0=corrects for TRS-1007 and B&Q QR2010/QR2009 response. Toslink out to USB converter to PC
  • Capacitance and impedance: 50pF fixed, 200 ohm . Total 147pF with cables
  • SUT if used: Not used
• Cable capacitance
  • Try to measure if you can, it matters with MM cartridges: 15+80+2=97pF internal arm leads, cable, connector) +50pF RIAA.
  • Multimeters tend to exaggerate this, LCR meters work best and are a very useful tool to have: Vendor statements
• ADC: internal in Puffin.
• Recording: no adjustment on balance, no Azimuth adjustment on cartridge, 5-48kHz, PC and Puffin at 48kHz.

NOTE: the blipp on the left channel at 9600Hz is real and not from the test record, does not occur with other cartridges, follows the cartridge.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Thorens TPU 257 = Audio-Technica AT3600= Rega Carbon

• Cartridge: Thorens TPU 257=Audio-Technica AT3600=Rega Carbon
• Stylus condition new <5 hrs on vinyl,
• Test record: ClearAudio TRS-1007 side A track 1&2 L/R stereo
• Turntable and arm: Michell Gyro SE. Measured peak wow <0.1%. Arm resonance with cart __Hz
• Tracking force: 3g
• Phono stage and loading settings: Parks Audio Puffin. EQ=500R-0=corrects for TRS-1007 and B&Q QR2010/QR2009 response. Toslink out to USB converter to PC
  • Capacitance and impedance: 50pF fixed, 47k ohm . Total 147pF with cables
  • SUT if used: Not used
• Cable capacitance
  • Try to measure if you can, it matters with MM cartridges: 15+80+2=97pF internal arm leads, cable, connector) +50pF RIAA
  • Multimeters tend to exaggerate this, LCR meters work best and are a very useful tool to have: Vendor statements
• ADC: internal in Puffin.
• Recording: no adjustment on balance, no Azimuth adjustment on cartridge, 5-48kHz, PC and Puffin at 48kHz.

NOTE Bought this to the to check/ eliminate if some strange vibrations on low noise spectrum can from my MC cart or not, turned out to be a vibrating belt causing the anomali.

 

[USER]

Thorens TPU 257 = Audio-Technica AT3600= Rega Carbon

View attachment 296932
View attachment 296935

• Cartridge: Thorens TPU 257=Audio-Technica AT3600=Rega Carbon
• Stylus condition new <5 hrs on vinyl,
• Test record: ClearAudio TRS-1007 side A track 1&2 L/R stereo
• Turntable and arm: Michell Gyro SE. Measured peak wow <0.1%. Arm resonance with cart __Hz
• Tracking force: 3g
• Phono stage and loading settings: Parks Audio Puffin. EQ=500R-0=corrects for TRS-1007 and B&Q QR2010/QR2009 response. Toslink out to USB converter to PC
  • Capacitance and impedance: 50pF fixed, 47k ohm . Total 147pF with cables
  • SUT if used: Not used
• Cable capacitance
  • Try to measure if you can, it matters with MM cartridges: 15+80+2=147pF (internal arm leads, cable, connector)
  • Multimeters tend to exaggerate this, LCR meters work best and are a very useful tool to have: Vendor statements
• ADC: internal in Puffin.
• Recording: no adjustment on balance, no Azimuth adjustment on cartridge, 5-48kHz, PC and Puffin at 48kHz.

NOTE Bought his to the to check/ eliminate if some strange vibrations on low noise spectrum can from my MC cart or not, turned out to be a vibrating belt causing the anomali.

Still hard to believe that this is essentially the cheapest MM cartridge made today. Don't settle for worse, folks!

 

[Balle Clorin]

AT-OC9ML/II . I could not edit my post, but Send me a PM and I can return a google drive file playing Dire Straits- water of love with AT-OC9ML/ii

 

[USER]

Pioneer PC-550E/II
Click to increase size

Notes

• Very lightly used, bonded, elliptical stylus with titanium cantilever
• At the time, late 1970s, Pioneer's third best model
  • You find cantilevers made from interesting materials during this time
  • Best was PC-1000/II with beryllium cantilever
• Excellent crosstalk, excellent channel balance, and very good distortion until about 10kHz
  • That distortion isn't related to wear
• We can begin to see what to expect out of a good cartridge from the late 1970s
  • And can have a good basis with which to judge modern cartridges

 

[USER]

I was wondering what the impact is on the distortion measurement. I am pretty sure it actually dampens the LF resonances, but I'd like to quantify the distortion tradeoff we have with that.

As you can see here, whether one uses the brush or not makes no difference when it comes to distortion. Hope this helps.

Note that the Wayne Kirkwood Flat MM was set to a higher capacitance than in my original measurement. The cartridge still works well at a total 300pF.

 

[dougi]

AUDIO TECHNICA VM95ML (EDITED)

NOTES:

• Music Hall Stealth DD ->QUAD Artera PRE -> RME ADI-2 PRO
• Test record not flat
• Redone after cart re-setup and using side 2 of the test record
• <10 hours on cart
• strange distortion wiggle
• Not exactly extended