Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

[dlaloum]

The goo is usually a clear liquid silicone of a high weight grade. It is usually available at electronic supply places and wholesalers. That's where I got it from when I needed it for Dual turntables that use it in the mechanism underneath. No goo = no worky well and need to be pretty close on the weight but not while splitting hairs.

There is a thick grey "grease" on the unipivot of the Revox Lineatrack turntable....
The KAB liquid arm damping system seems to use some sort of silicone liquid or oil?

 

[USER]

I'm currently using an RXP3 with an upgraded ViVid Line HE stylus.

Perfect. If you see the index you will see I have most and am missing that one. I will also be testing that vivid line stylus as well as the R8X for which it is supposedly an upgrade.

 

[Doodski]

The KAB liquid arm damping system seems to use some sort of silicone liquid or oil?

• Endisil® F-60,000 CST Silicone Fluid

It is rated @ a viscosity of F-60,000 centistokes (CST) @ 25°C

High Viscosity Pure Silicone Fluids

High Viscosity Pure Silicone Fluids are clear, colorless, and odorless linear Polydimethylsiloxane fluids / PDMS Silicone Oils that range in viscosities from 5,000cSt to 100,000cSt (centistokes) @ 25°C. They are characterized by their low pour points, high flash points, wide service temperature...

www.clearcoproducts.com

Pure Silicone Fluids

www.clearcoproducts.com

This might be getting lucky on quantity and volume.

FT Silicone Diff Fluid, 60,000 cSt

www.associatedelectrics.com

KAB Electro Acoustics http://www.kabusa.com

KAB Electro Acoustics http://www.kabusa.com

 

[dlaloum]

Thank you for testing and posting all of this! I have a soft spot for Shure/RS cartridges. In my vinyl 'prime' years I used a V15 type RS and thought it was about the best thing I'd ever heard. I'm currently using an RXP3 with an upgraded ViVid Line HE stylus. Subjectively I like the way it sounds and don't hear any inner groove distortion but look forward to actually measuring it. I've got the CBS STR-100 ordered and hope to post results with the original stylus as well as the ViVid Line. That can give us an idea of how good some of the currently available replacement styli are as well.

Just going from memory... the RXP3 should be an M97 body in p-mount format...
Do you have the inductance for it?

I have a bunch of M97 p-mounts (under various names!) - and most of them can take an M97 stylus or the p-mount stylus interchangeably

 

[dougi]

DENON DL-103R
HEADSHELL LEVEL

VTA WITH "TAIL UP"

NOTES

• 2 LPs on it
• Musical Hall Stealth DD -> QUAD Artera PRE -> RME ADI-2 PRO
• Left channel resonance 9.0 Hz with 5g added to headshell. Plots are with the 5g setup. 8.5 Hz with 10g on headshell and lots on either end. 10 Hz with no added weight.
• Glitch at 10 kHz consistent. Could there be a problem with it?
• Seems quite sensitive to VTA
• Otherwise quite good and well matched this sample.
• My sample seems old, # was 49xx, Steve Hoffman's sample from 2021 blog was #57xx
• Response seem to vary with samples. Below are my and Steve Hoffman's test plots that came with the carts.
• I've read all the stuff about needing a heavy arm for proper bass, but at least sweep tests don't bear this out.

MINE

 

[JP]

Interesting they say the test record is TRS-1005. The second plot definitely looks to have the characteristic mid-range dip of that record.

 

[USER]

DENON DL-103R
HEADSHELL LEVEL

View attachment 298407

VTA WITH "TAIL UP"

View attachment 298410

What's odd is that my last measurement (on a low-mass tonearm) also shows that dip. It is not really there (or at least not it is not as pronounced) in earlier ones, in particular the ones taken on my high-mass tonearm. Measurement FRs have been corrected to CA-TRS-1007.

And, yes, you'd expect evidence pointing to a pronounced resonance at 20Hz. Goes to show that it is hard to translate Japanese compliance measurements and that people overreact to things without evidence. Then again maybe that dip above 10kHz is a related issue. The cap mod didn't make a real difference with the high-mass tonearm but I never tested it on this low-mass tonearm. I no longer have the cartridge so it would be great if someone else also measured in order to confirm if it is an issue.

Here it is on a high-mass tonearm. Ignore that FR explosion above 15kHz, that is the test record, and ignore the high-pass filter on the preamp.

I can see why these are popular given the convenience MC cartridges affords on loading. Consistent results given proper set-up. (That and Stereophile/Art Dudley wankery. Don't @ me, I didn't write, "dependably musical, unfussy sound.") But distortion above 10kHz is high (a lot of Denons have this issue), output is extremely low, and the stylus doesn't last long given the shape. Personally I don't think it is worth retail price today, which has gotten waaaaay too high.

Perhaps Stereophile should have reviewed a Radio Shack cartridge like this one:

 

[bethslave]

Just going from memory... the RXP3 should be an M97 body in p-mount format...
Do you have the inductance for it?

I have a bunch of M97 p-mounts (under various names!) - and most of them can take an M97 stylus or the p-mount stylus interchangeably

I don't have inductance for it yet. I was just thinking last night I need to buy an LCR meter. I believe you're correct about it basically being an M97. What I understood from long ago was that Shure used the same body in many cases and the quality/series was determined by the stylus which was kind of how I wound up with the RXP3. It's been a long time ago but I remember going to Radio Shack to get a replacement stylus for my V15 RS, learning they were discontinued and walking out with the RXP3 to have something decent to use while I figured out what to do about the V15. I remember it was marked way down and I was impressed by the frequency response and separation printed on the package.

 

[dlaloum]

I don't have inductance for it yet. I was just thinking last night I need to buy an LCR meter. I believe you're correct about it basically being an M97. What I understood from long ago was that Shure used the same body in many cases and the quality/series was determined by the stylus which was kind of how I wound up with the RXP3. It's been a long time ago but I remember going to Radio Shack to get a replacement stylus for my V15 RS, learning they were discontinued and walking out with the RXP3 to have something decent to use while I figured out what to do about the V15. I remember it was marked way down and I was impressed by the frequency response and separation printed on the package.

I know that the laminated core bodies, also use a narrower shank - so the more basic non laminated core based styli would not fit into the higher end models...

The V15Vx seems to have been a rehash of the V15RS - I am not certain, but I think that it used the wider shank same as the M97 ( I have a couple of V15V bodies but no V15Vx's....) - I am also uncertain as to whether the V15Vx had the core lamination of its earlier sibling... I think the V15Vx was marketed alongside the "ultra 500" and the Ultra500 was a rebadged and rebodied V15V...

 

[dlaloum]

What's odd is that my last measurement (on a low-mass tonearm) also shows that dip. It is not really there (or at least not it is not as pronounced) in earlier ones, in particular the ones taken on my high-mass tonearm. Measurement FRs have been corrected to CA-TRS-1007.
View attachment 298477
And, yes, you'd expect evidence pointing to a pronounced resonance at 20Hz. Goes to show that it is hard to translate Japanese compliance measurements and that people overreact to things without evidence. Then again maybe that dip above 10kHz is a related issue. The cap mod didn't make a real difference with the high-mass tonearm but I never tested it on this low-mass tonearm. I no longer have the cartridge so it would be great if someone else also measured in order to confirm if it is an issue.

Here it is on a high-mass tonearm. Ignore that FR explosion above 15kHz, that is the test record, and ignore the high-pass filter on the preamp.
View attachment 298479
I can see why these are popular given the convenience MC cartridges affords on loading. Consistent results given proper set-up. (That and Stereophile/Art Dudley wankery. Don't @ me, I didn't write, "dependably musical, unfussy sound.") But distortion above 10kHz is high (a lot of Denons have this issue), output is extremely low, and the stylus doesn't last long given the shape. Personally I don't think it is worth retail price today, which has gotten waaaaay too high.

Perhaps Stereophile should have reviewed a Radio Shack cartridge like this one:
View attachment 298483

The RXT5 is a Shure M97 in p-mount configuration with a p-mount to 1/2" adapter....

 

[USER]

The RXT5 is a Shure M97 in p-mount configuration with a p-mount to 1/2" adapter....

What interesting is that the inductance of most of the Realistic cartridges I have, the more modern ones, hover around 700mH. 3 RXT5s I've tested are 700mH. Could they all be M97s? The odd ones out, the RXT6s, are around 550mH.

 

[dlaloum]

What interesting is that the inductance of most of the Realistic cartridges I have, the more modern ones, hover around 700mH. 3 RXT5s I've tested are 700mH. Could they all be M97s? The odd ones out, the RXT6s, are around 550mH.

The M97 family has had a range of inductances - I have a bunch of them, all the styli are interchangeable, but the inductance ranges from the high 400's to the 700's

Somewhere at home I have a table where I stored all the inductances that I measured... I will try to remember to post the list later when I have access to it.

The V-Bottom M97 family bodies, can usually be found relatively cheaply, as they were so common, and having a repertoir of varying inductances gives additional flexibility when tuning the loading to optimise for the various non-original styli that we all use today.
Or you can use that variability as a "voicing" to your particular liking.... same difference!

Typically, the better the stylus (the lower its effective mass, and the higher the resonance frequency of the cantilever - and therefore the peak rise point in raw frequency response!) - the lower the inductance of the cartridge body/generator, as you need less LCR circuit "EQ"/loading, the achieve a flat frequency response.

The V15V's are in the low 300's mH.... with resonance at 32kHz
The Technics EPC100mk4 were 88mH spec - with resonance above 70kHz (and the lowest effective mass ever recorded I believe)

(All this loading stuff becomes less relevant if you use a Digital phono stage with EQ to achieve your flat F/R - however do keep in mind that both the LCR circuit and the cantilever behaviour are minimum phase - and should be corrected using minimum phase filters - otherwise, phase will be uncorrected)

 

[Balle Clorin]

Spoiler: Digital tuning

Like this digital correction of ATOC9ML/II by Puffin (Parks Audio)
Post in thread 'Parks Audio Puffin Review (Phono Stage)'
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...-puffin-review-phono-stage.19795/post-1425293
I can do it more advanced and for each channel in my Trinnov , but most of the time I listen to the cartridge as is is, that is some of the charm.

 

[dougi]

Spoiler: Digital tuning

Like this digital correction of ATOC9ML/II by Puffin (Parks Audio)
Post in thread 'Parks Audio Puffin Review (Phono Stage)'
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...-puffin-review-phono-stage.19795/post-1425293
I can do it more advanced and for each channel in my Trinnov , but most of the time I listen to the cartridge as is is, that is some of the charm.

Yeah, one of drivers for me in measuring cartridges was to correct response via EQ. I did it for a while with a DEQ 2496 and now the RME ADI2-pro, but now rarely bother.

 

[JP]

Random thoughts:

- Measurements of multiple copies is interesting and will likely lead to the desire to compare the data. It’d be good to create a library of not just the plots, but the raw data, and maybe the audio files themselves. I’m still pondering an easy way to do this, and to democratize the ability to do the comparisons.

- I’m curious to find some good pieces on vinyl that are public domain so audio samples could be provided.

- Off the back of the preceding, a web app that will auto-generate test configs so controlled comparisons can be made easily by anyone.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Just A thought.The outer track on the test record is the easiest to reproduce, while the inner is the most challenging, so maybe track 11 (L+R )on CA TRS-1007 should be included in the posts? Differences between stylus types should then become more exposed.

A bit to many plots here , but you get the idea…

 

[USER]

View attachment 298749Just A thought.The outer track on the test record is the easiest to reproduce, while the inner is the most challenging, so maybe track 11 (L+R )on CA TRS-1007 should be included in the posts? Differences between stylus types should then become more exposed.

I think JP mentioned that CA TRS-1007 doesn't place that sweep in the original inner area of the test record as in TRS-1007. My records seem to have it in the middle of the record. Would that be even easier to reproduce than at the ends? (Thinking of the effects of anti-skating, alignment, etc.)

 

[dougi]

I think JP mentioned that CA TRS-1007 doesn't place that sweep in the original inner area of the test record as in TRS-1007. My records seem to have it in the middle of the record. Would that be even easier to reproduce than at the ends? (Thinking of the effects of anti-skating, alignment, etc.)

You would think so, as most single point alignments would be around there. I use either the HFNRR record tool universal single point offset one or the Project align-it pro (with a shim so it can be used for any tonearm effective length).

 

[Balle Clorin]

Track 1&2 which most use are outside the outer null, I am not at home so I cannot verify where corresponding track 9 is , but from memory I may be closer to the inner null, that is why I thought 11 could be the most difficult track… and avoiding vertical modulation for this case

 

[GXAlan]

Monster Cable Sigma Genesis 2000

This is running through my Marantz PM-10 phono input --> REC out. This goes through several HDAM3 buffers.
I am not the original owner of the turntable or cartridge.

• CBS STR-100 found off eBay. It has a lot of surface noise and pops even though it visually looks clean. Warping is easily seen in the recordings.
• 1980-era Linn LP12 (serial in the 29000 range) + Valhalla + Ittok LVII
• 1.8 grams
• Marantz PM-10 integrated amplifier PHONO-IN to REC OUT
  • MC-HIGH setting was used, which is either 49 ohm or 133 ohm.
  • The marketing data differs from the manual for the impedance
    
    Marketing
    
    
    
    
    User manual
    
    
    
    
  • 
• Cable capacitance: Unknown, Series 1 MIT-330 cable (no box)
• ADC: E1DA Cosmos ADC Grade A

Stylus condition: On its original tip, so likely worn -- though no tracking errors.

No flattening was done -- the CBS STR-100 is visually warped.

EDIT: Ran MC-LOW and the results are pretty similar which suggests that it's really the 10 ohm vs 49 ohm in my opinion (lower than ideal 80-100 ohm).

EDIT 2: Ran the Kenwood L-08C which is 100 ohm setting