I was actually talking about using subs for the bass modules themselves instead of the woofers. If the sub isn’t a massive, heavy 15”, a pair of those and a nice directivity monitor could probably play high quality stereo indeed. As you said, sub placement would still be relevant. Just another way of accomplishing the same goal.You can cross higher than 80 or 100 Hz but risk potential localization issues. Some of this depends on the location, but other things like high order harmonics can affect it too. The car situation is a pretty unique one.
I have struggled with localization of much higher frequency sounds in a car. While it is all acoustics in the end, unless your home is a glass-walled pod, a typical room is a very different space.
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Introducing Directiva - An ASR open source platform speaker project
- Thread starter Rick Sykora
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OP
- Thread Starter
- #1,042
Yes, I get it and it might work in some cases. However, you would need a subwoofer that performs well up to 400 Hz (or more depending on the crossover frequency).
When many subs are optimized for 80 Hz and below, they are usually not be suitable more than 2 octaves higher.
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By the way, for a compact bass module with similarly shallow depth, the B&C 8FG64 is kind of a sub driver one wouldn't worry about using up to 300Hz.
Assuming a leaky/aperiodic cabinet with Ql=3.0 and a volume of 3.5l the sim shows Fb=121.9 Hz and Qtc=0.59. (Aiming for 0.577 system Q.) A box with 12mm wall thickness and dimensions of 220h x 220w 155d(+10..20 for extra thickness of the bafle) would have a net volume (driver's subtracted) of 3.5l. It would need a huge, up to 20db LT boost to extend the response to 40Hz (though not insane power it seems), but the point here is to match the shallow depth of the r2 visually. Does it makes sense, actually not sure right now, and not sure if it would be a bit front heavy if it's that shallow, such a small box would be easy to build though. Same but with a 12" driver, the B&C 12TBX100 could be used the same way with only 7l net volume.
It makes me think about those Dayton epique drivers yet again. Neither fully woofer or sub.
Edit: or one of those small diameter tang band subs depending on the SPL
When I saw the R2 thread for the first time, I also immediately had the new E150HE-44 in mind, as they would allow for tremendous bass performance while keeping the small width of the top.
Either 2 of them parallel in a 22l vented enclosure (HxWxD 70x18x29 cm) or 3 of them parallel in a small pillar-style 12l enclosure (HxWxD 70x18x18 cm)
I am joyfully awaiting further results from the R2 Tops development team - tweeter, mids and 4 of the Epiques are already waiting here
Thank you & yes, I am
OP
- Thread Starter
- #1,048
When I saw the R2 thread for the first time, I also immediately had the new E150HE-44 in mind, as they would allow for tremendous bass performance while keeping the small width of the top.
Either 2 of them parallel in a 22l vented enclosure (HxWxD 70x18x29 cm) or 3 of them parallel in a small pillar-style 12l enclosure (HxWxD 70x18x18 cm)
I am joyfully awaiting further results from the R2 Tops development team - tweeter, mids and 4 of the Epiques are already waiting here
Welcome and certainly welcome yet another potential bass module variant.
The larger Epique is high on our candidate woofer list for the midtower bass module, but we have not done a full eval as yet. Our initial plans only involve designing with a couple of different bass modules, however the bass module was always meant to allow others to create something that works for them.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #1,049
Welcome and as mentioned, Directiva was meant to be a project to allow reuse and customization. As stated, no plans to do an aperiodic bass module, but know some are interested.
Thanks!
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What about the Peerless SLS 6.5" 4 ohm. Not the most sensitive of woofers, but compact and quite a bit of xmax. Would easily fit the sub 300hz region. Needs 0.09 cuft sealed per woofer or 0.21cuft ported tuned to 55hz per woofer. You could fit a couple of these in a pretty small bass module.
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Peerless by Tymphany 830946 6-1/2" Paper Cone Woofer Speaker 4 OhmA new addition to the SLS Series of speakers, the Peerless 830946 6-1/2" woofer features a paper cone, wide rubber half-roll surround, and hefty ceramic ferrite magnet with distortion-reducing aluminum shorting ring. Audio is...
www.parts-express.com
OP
- Thread Starter
- #1,051
What about the Peerless SLS 6.5" 4 ohm. Not the most sensitive of woofers, but compact and quite a bit of xmax. Would easily fit the sub 300hz region. Needs 0.09 cuft sealed per woofer or 0.21cuft ported tuned to 55hz per woofer. You could fit a couple of these in a pretty small bass module.
Home
Peerless by Tymphany 830946 6-1/2" Paper Cone Woofer Speaker 4 OhmA new addition to the SLS Series of speakers, the Peerless 830946 6-1/2" woofer features a paper cone, wide rubber half-roll surround, and hefty ceramic ferrite magnet with distortion-reducing aluminum shorting ring. Audio is...www.parts-express.com
View attachment 181987
Thanks, noticed PE picked up more Peerless recently.
Always liked as they seem to offer a good value but not a big fan of truncated frames. Does not fit into our bass module plans, but if someone wants to make small 3-way, it may work well
Ya. I run them in my truck as woofers. They output pretty well in that down to 20hz, fairly flat with cabin gain. Not an issue with sensitivity in that either. I know @Justin Zazzi also runs them in his car and he is the one that told me to try them. No regrets so far.
I have thought about using them in a homemade 3way design for a small-ish bookshelf/bass module type setup.
To expand on this a bit - the SLS 10" does not have a truncated flange and is quite the value as far as displacement-for-dollars. The 12" is in the same boat also, if not even more so.
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Colonel7
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I used one to make a sub recently and their sensitivity and power handling are so low that 2 meter listening distance is stretching capability.
Just ran some sims and loading it isobarically so it's a practical monitor size is even worse. 25W max capacity and 92dB at full volume. Yuck. That's for the 6" also.
Biblob
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@Rick Sykora @TimVG @617
What about this 6,5"driver, from a Polish manufacturer, it seems nice for it's price (€60):
STX W.18.180.8.FCX_v2
Their offerings seems interesting overall.
What about this 6,5"driver, from a Polish manufacturer, it seems nice for it's price (€60):
STX W.18.180.8.FCX_v2
Their offerings seems interesting overall.
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OP
- Thread Starter
- #1,057
Interesting, but without any US distribution, would have to be exceptional for us to use in Directiva.
Thanks though!
OP
- Thread Starter
- #1,058
When I saw the R2 thread for the first time, I also immediately had the new E150HE-44 in mind, as they would allow for tremendous bass performance while keeping the small width of the top.
Either 2 of them parallel in a 22l vented enclosure (HxWxD 70x18x29 cm) or 3 of them parallel in a small pillar-style 12l enclosure (HxWxD 70x18x18 cm)
I am joyfully awaiting further results from the R2 Tops development team - tweeter, mids and 4 of the Epiques are already waiting here
Might want to check those Epiques. One reviewer complained that they were not properly coated for sealed design use. They responded by saying they should have been coated. Sounds as though PE may be having some early QC issues.
