Help me make a decision on nearfield monitors!

[dfuller]

So, I have a line on a pair of Focal Twin6s and Barefoot Footprint01s for a good price used, but I can also get a pair of Dynaudio LYD48s for $1000ish less. So the question is this: Are the Twin6s actually $1000 better than the LYD48s? I'm not in a situation where I can listen to them before purchasing, unfortunately. I currently have Focal Shape 65s, which I quite like, but I'd like a bit more low end oomph than these provide.

So far advantages/disadvantages I can see for each, with the caveat that measurements for all 3 seem to be limited to manufacturer measurements.

Twin6:
+ Beryllium tweeter so no tweeter breakup anywhere near the audible spectrum
+ More power (2x 150w BASH/Class H, 100w class AB)
+ No DSP (only an advantage for the lack of latency)
+ long-term support
+ continously variable room calibration (trimpots instead of switches)
- 2.5 way instead of true 3 way
- active analog crossovers may be less accurate than DSP
- considerably more expensive than LYD48
- potentially weird off-axis response from the 2.5-way design
- largest cabinet

LYD48:
+ more built-in room calibration options
+ smaller footprint
+ easily the cheapest of the 3 options
- much less power on tap (80/50/50 class D)
- DSP crossovers incurs latency
- potentially iffy off-axis response?
- most limited LF response (-6dB at 40hz at best)
- lightest (not sure if this is due to thin cabinet or switching power supply)

Footprint01:
+ Sealed cabinet
+ smaller footprint
+ MEME speaker modeling tech (useful for sanity checking mixes)
+ tons of power (500W/150w class D)
+ Probably the best directivity behavior thanks to phase plugs/waveguides
+ ridiculously flat on-axis and extends lowest (+/-1dB 45hz-40khz, +/-3dB 36hz-45khz)
- Most expensive of the bunch
- Passive crossover between mid and tweeter
- DSP crossover incurs latency

 

[RobS]

What's your use case here? For work or pleasure?

 

[dfuller]

Work primarily.

 

[RobS]

Are you going to be using them for 8 hours a day at high dbSPL? I prefer soft dome tweeters because they are non-fatiguing for longer durations.

I like the Footprint 01s except for that passive crossover and phase plug (they sound weird due to the reflections). The AD/DA inside is also not the best. But the sealed bass is brilliant.

 

[dfuller]

High SPL no, generally not. I tend to work fairly low volume. The passive crossovers were my main misgiving with the footprints other than price.

 

[AurekV]

I would only consider the barefoot out of those options. The passive crossover seems to be implemented fine and is paired with DSP so I wouldn't be concerned. I have looked at the other two and was quite unimpressed with their off-axis performance. I'm not sure why you aren't considering options like the Neumann KH310, Genelec monitors, or even something like the KEF R3 (yes it requires an amp and perhaps some EQ depending on taste, but is relatively affordable used and has stellar directivity). There are also plenty of 2 ways that can be paired with one or multiple subs that would be great for nearfield, like the KH80. I am using JBL 708Ps at around 7' away. They are wonderful but I wouldn't recommend them as nearfields because mine emit a very irritating high pitched tone that is audible in the nearfield and the problem doesn't seem to be isolated to my units.

If you're not already using EQ to even out the low end of your monitors then I would strongly suggest that--given you mentioned wanting oomph and how important an accurate low end is for translation of mixes compared to just pleasure listening.

 

[RobS]

Do you live in the States? I would order from Sweetwater or Vintage King that offer a return policy if they don't work out. The only way to know is to get them in your work conditions and see how they fare. My pick would be the Barefoots.

 

[dfuller]

I'm not sure why you aren't considering options like the Neumann KH310, Genelec monitors, or even something like the KEF R3 (yes it requires an amp and perhaps some EQ depending on taste, but is relatively affordable used and has stellar directivity).

Few reasons.
KH310: Far too much. I can get the footprints or the twins for a bit over a thousand dollars off new price because I'd be buying them used.
Genelecs: I am beyond not a fan of the newer Genelecs. They're very flattering, and not in a good way. Every time I've done a mix on them something ends up sounding wrong in the "car test" even if it's a room I'm familiar with.
KEF: Bizarre sub-100hz bass response, they're passive so would need an amp (and I'm only doing rackmounts).

There are also plenty of 2 ways that can be paired with one or multiple subs that would be great for nearfield, like the KH80

Placing a sub to be accurate is quite difficult and takes a lot more planning for placement than full-range 3 ways.

I have looked at the other two and was quite unimpressed with their off-axis performance.

I should note, I'm in near field, so on-axis is more important than off-axis - that would more be for clients sitting elsewhere in the room (when that's a thing again).

Do you live in the States? I would order from Sweetwater or Vintage King that offer a return policy if they don't work out. The only way to know is to get them in your work conditions and see how they fare. My pick would be the Barefoots.

Yup. Buying used, though.

Overall, though, looks like the Footprints or the Twins are probably the move.

 

[JIW]

Here is a review with some measurements of the Focal.
https://www.resolutionmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Focal-Twin6-BE.pdf

 

[AurekV]

I was looking for those measurement as I had seen them before, they are hard to make out but they really don't look good, especially the nasty null around 2K. They must be laying them down if the horizontal has that null. The vertical also looks problematic as far as I can tell with them only going 30 degrees off axis.

If you look at measurements of the Solo6 Be which seems to have the same drivers and likely mid/high crossover point (therefore having similar performance). It also doesn't look good. These are from Sound & Recording (German) <http://www.musikmedia.de/mstore-download.php?SKU=REC0004062-000> and don't look good either. Because they are so low resolution, looking at other polars from them can help contextualize things KH80 (very good performance) KH310 Trio11 Be (has similar but likely lesser problems).

I took a look at the manufacturer measurements of the LYD 48 and they seem to be worse than the LYD 5 reviewed here which doesn't sit well with me considering the price.

The off axis performance of the speakers matters in nearfield, perhaps not as much as with relatively louder early reflections but still, epecially if you tend to move around while mixing to reach equipment or are just don't stay well like me. There is also an argument to make that the vertical off axis performance is particularly important in that application considering that there is typically a strong early reflection of of a desk of console.

There are some other quality monitors to consider used. For example some of the older JBLs LSR series which can be had for good prices used like the 6332 & 32 (pretty much the same), 6328P & 4328P. There are also many other options, I can think of like ADAM, if you don't mind the hiss then I have had great experiences with the Kali LP-8s (measurements by Audioholics) and I'd imagine their IN-8s are superior.

Just because the 2.5/3ways you are mentioning are more expensive doesn't mean they are legitimately better monitors.

I think we could all provide much better suggestions if you provided more information about your setup, room, and expectation for bass extension.

 

[andrewch]

Check Genelec 8340A or 8350A + GLM kit for room eq. They also come in white color, smaller footprint than Neumann kh310.

Or maybe 2 x kh120 (white/dark) + kh750 sub and with the sub you have dsp, option for room eq with the Neumann MA 1.

 

[q3cpma]

No point in replacing your Shapes with these, the gains aren't enough. Either go Genelec/Neumann (or the small LYD-5) or get a cheap subwoofer like the LSR310S.

 

[dfuller]

Update: Going for the Barefoots. Price is now the same as the Twins so there's no point in doing anything else, plus the built-in sanity checking of the MEME system is worth it.

 

[q3cpma]

Update: Going for the Barefoots. Price is now the same as the Twins so there's no point in doing anything else, plus the built-in sanity checking of the MEME system is worth it.

Would be nice for amir to measure these rare speakers, but enjoy your choice anyway.

 

[dfuller]

Would be nice for amir to measure these rare speakers, but enjoy your choice anyway.

I might send one of them his way, haven't decided yet.

 

[richard12511]

I might send one of them his way, haven't decided yet.

That would be awesome. I'm super interested in Barefoot, and from what I've seen the measurements look as good as Neumann/Genelec. I'm sure others would be similarly interested !

 

[thewas]

I'm super interested in Barefoot, and from what I've seen the measurements look as good as Neumann/Genelec.

Could you please post a link to them? I only have seen these on axis ones https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/barefoot-footprint-01

 

[dfuller]

Could you please post a link to them? I only have seen these on axis ones https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/barefoot-footprint-01

They have measurements in their manuals for up to 30 degrees off axis. The off axis behavior is remarkably good especially considering the total lack of external waveguides.

 

[thewas]

They have measurements in their manuals for up to 30 degrees off axis. The off axis behavior is remarkably good especially considering the total lack of external waveguides.

Thank you, a small like the used 4" mid driver helps the directivity if no waveguide is used, although its directivity is still not very good with the strong discontinuity 2-3 kHz.

 

[YSC]

actually if I had the Shape 65 I won't go to these upgrades, the gains are so marginal that a proper dual sub setup with some measurement likely do it much more justice.