GLM4 4.2.0 a big improvement in sound quality

[strea]

But you still don’t get it and you don’t understand that you don’t get it.

So take a step back and try figure that out.

Quite the contrary, my math and understanding of how dBu and dBFS functioned was correct after researching.

The part below discussing optimal SNR is subjective. Of course I'm not going to hear the difference between 100 dB SNR and 115 SNR, but I just wanted to make sure I understood the numbers and KaiS confirmed my math was correct. Auto ref functionality and noise to signal ratio was a different topic and I get that now. No noise = there's no noise problem, but I still wanted to be in optimal SNR range regardless of that statement/anyones thoughts on it. If I was to go analog, I'd want to be in -18dB to +2.5 dB on the ADI-2 and for that, it would require passive attenuators before entering monitors such as 8030c unless listening at very high volume on a typical listening basis. It's already been figured out.

This is becoming quite petty though and a waste of my time. I have no reason to explain myself to you, so that will be my last comment directed to you.

If anyone else has recommendations from my initial post above about USB AES Interfaces, I'm all ears, thank you.

 

[Trell]

Quite the contrary, my math and understanding of how dBu and dBFS functioned was correct after researching.View attachment 270732

The part below discussing optimal SNR is subjective. Of course I'm not going to hear the difference between 100 dB SNR and 115 SNR, but I just wanted to make sure I understood the numbers and KaiS confirmed my math was correct. Auto ref functionality and noise to signal ratio was a different topic and I get that now. No noise = there's no noise problem, but I still wanted to be in optimal SNR range regardless of that statement/anyones thoughts on it. If I was to go analog, I'd want to be in -18dB to +2.5 dB on the ADI-2 and for that, it would require passive attenuators before entering monitors such as 8030c unless listening at very high volume on a typical listening basis. It's already been figured out.

This is becoming quite petty though and a waste of my time. I have no reason to explain myself to you, so that will be my last comment directed to you.

If anyone else has recommendations from my initial post above about USB AES Interfaces, I'm all ears, thank you.

That was ALL about analogue output, which is far from digital output. Something that the ADI-2 DAC can’t do in any case, but there is higher end available that can do so.

 

[strea]

That was ALL about analogue output, which is far from digital output. Something that the ADI-2 DAC can’t do in any case, but there is higher end available that can do so.

Something constructive, thanks. Yes I know the Pro can do it with a breakout cable. I don't think I need the functionality of the Pro though, just a small black box like the Matrix or Motu 8D will probably serve my needs. Although the MOTU has a lot more than I need as well, but my previous experience with Topping has me worried about Chi-Fi reliability (and I believe Matrix is Chi-Fi).

 

[Trell]

Something constructive, thanks. Yes I know the Pro can do it with a breakout cable. I don't think I need the functionality of the Pro though, just a small black box like the Matrix or Motu 8D will probably serve my needs. Although the MOTU has a lot more than I need as well, but my previous experience with Topping has me worried about Chi-Fi reliability (and I believe Matrix is Chi-Fi).

For good reasons the term Chi-Fi is considered derogatory, so skip that part.

Just get the 8330A, SAM subwoofer and GLM. Set the internal volume using GLM so that full output of the DAC does not blow your head off. And use analogue input, which I do in my two Genelec 2.1 SAM desktop setups.

Just going from 8030C+subwoofer to 8330A+7350 is expensive and you still need to buy the GLM kit.

And then you don’t know if you should use AES or not.

 

[strea]

For good reasons the term Chi-Fi is considered derogatory, so skip that part.

Just get the 8330A, SAM subwoofer and GLM. Set the internal volume using GLM so that full output of the DAC does not blow your head off. And use analogue input, which I do in my two Genelec 2.1 SAM desktop setups.

My apologies was not intended, I see it said a lot around the forums.

I genuinely appreciate the advice, although I often see @Tangband say he found sound improvement via an all digital setup by removing an additional DA conversion and going all digital so I was exploring that route (hence all my USB AES questions). The methodology of a more direct signal path does make sense (in my mind). I also do not have a ton of room on my desk and I don't mind leaving GLM hooked up which is why I imagined that using the GLM Max Level Restriction function + Genelec 9310b knob would be much better for me than a larger DAC (even the ADI which is 8" is still large on my desk). Also, the costs of a DAC such as ADI-2 is actually more than say a MOTU 8D + 9310b knob. I understand the ADI has more functionality of course, but perhaps for my needs not the best choice. And when it comes to cables, the AES cables are virtually the same price as the normal XLR's. I don't see many downsides to the all digital route.

 

[Trell]

My apologies was not intended, I see it said a lot around the forums.

No worry. Just write Chinese made or similar. I do that for German or Finnish audio devices, as an example.

I genuinely appreciate the advice, although I often see @Tangband say he found sound improvement via an all digital setup by removing an additional DA conversion and going all digital so I was exploring that route (hence all my USB AES questions). The methodology of a more direct signal path does make sense (in my mind). I also do not have a ton of room on my desk and I don't mind leaving GLM hooked up which is why I imagined that using the GLM Max Level Restriction function + Genelec 9310b knob would be much better for me than a larger DAC (even the ADI which is 8" is still large on my desk). Also, the costs of a DAC such as ADI-2 is actually more than say a MOTU 8D + 9310b knob. I understand the ADI has more functionality of course, but perhaps for my needs not the best choice. And when it comes to cables, the AES cables are virtually the same price as the normal XLR's. I don't see many downsides to the all digital route.

That ASR member says many things that he can’t backup but still insists that he can hear.

The downside for you is that you’re committing to something (AES) you don’t, in my opinion, understand while not understanding why analogue input failed for you. The chances is then that AES can fail as well.

 

[strea]

No worry. Just write Chinese made or similar. I do that for German or Finnish audio devices, as an example.


That ASR member says many things that he can’t backup but still insists that he can hear.

The downside for you is that you’re committing to something (AES) you don’t, in my opinion, understand while not understanding why analogue input failed for you. The chances is then that AES can fail as well.

Okay, understood. And I think there's still confusion here, one last try because we are on better terms now. Analog did not fail me, it worked properly per the advice I was given. Everything was set up properly, sound was produced, and volume levels were fine (even though I would have preferred to get the E70 closer to 0dB which would have required passive attenuation). I returned the analog setup because the subwoofer was defective (confirmed by Genelec) and the E70 was also defective (confirmed by members on here in another thread). The products were defective in the analog setup, that is all. Since then, I have chose to go Digital because I like the GLM software, the ability to turn off the monitor LED's which bothered my eyes on the 8030, the volume control, and much much more. I understand I can still do analog with the SAM monitors, but I'd prefer to just have the small volume knob on my desk rather than a DAC. I believe I DO understand, I just realized I wanted something different after returning the defective products.

 

[Trell]

Okay, understood. And I think there's still confusion here, one last try because we are on better terms now. Analog did not fail me, it worked properly per the advice I was given. Everything was set up properly, sound was produced, and volume levels were fine (even though I would have preferred to get the E70 closer to 0dB which would have required passive attenuation). I returned the analog setup because the subwoofer was defective (confirmed by Genelec) and the E70 was also defective (confirmed by members on here in another thread). The products were defective in the analog setup, that is all. Since then, I have chose to go Digital because I like the GLM software, the ability to turn off the monitor LED's which bothered my eyes on the 8030, the volume control, and much much more. I understand I can still do analog with the SAM monitors, but I'd prefer to just have the small volume knob on my desk rather than a DAC. I believe I DO understand, I just realized I wanted something different after returning the defective products.

With Genelec SAM monitors and subwoofers you don’t need passive attenuators for analogue input as you can set a much wider range of input sensitivity using GLM, which is the same as setting the internal volume level for them. For the 2.1 with RME ADI-2 DAC FS I use -25 and for the other 2.1 with the MOTU M2 I use -15.

With these settings I and my wife can use a large part of the range of the volume knob with it on the highest levels for better SNR.

The room EQ via GLM is stored in the monitors and subwoofer. I really want that part, which is why I bought them.

Could I go AES? Yes, with my RME Fireface UCX II audio interface, but then I loose dynamic loudness and tone controls from the ADI-2 DAC, as well as broken Genelec standby. I think it’s quite unlikely that AES will bring any improvement to the table.

 

[kniff]

S/PDIF is compatible with AES so there's no actual requirement to have AES-out, and it's far easier to find a preamp/interface/DAC with S/PDIF out (or directly from your computer) to get a digital signal to your Genelecs.

I'm planning a purchase of the 8350:s and my plan is this:

PC S/PDIF/RCA female --> male-male S/PDIF-RCA cable --> female-male-RCA>BNC-adapter --> female-male-BNC-Neutrik-AES impedance converter --> male-to-female AES/EBU-cable --> Genelec #1 --> female-male- AES/EBU-cable --> Genelec #2

Apologies if it has already been brought up.

 

[bodhi]

S/PDIF is compatible with AES so there's no actual requirement to have AES-out, and it's far easier to find a preamp/interface/DAC with S/PDIF out (or directly from your computer) to get a digital signal to your Genelecs.

I'm planning a purchase of the 8350:s and my plan is this:

PC S/PDIF/RCA female --> male-male S/PDIF-RCA cable --> female-male-RCA>BNC-adapter --> female-male-BNC-Neutrik-AES impedance converter --> male-to-female AES/EBU-cable --> Genelec #1 --> female-male- AES/EBU-cable --> Genelec #2

Apologies if it has already been brought up.

You don't even need the adapters if you have short cable.

 

[kniff]

You don't even need the adapters if you have short cable.

I heard this too. I found a cheap Neutrik converter on Ebay so it was more of a precaution since Genelec themselves recommend an impedance converter.

 

[bodhi]

I heard this too. I found a cheap Neutrik converter on Ebay so it was more of a precaution since Genelec themselves recommend an impedance converter.

Yeah, I bough those after a while just to be sure, but they make no difference at all. Not expensive so why not.

 

[Trell]

This is what Genelec writes about SPDIF instead of AES:

https://support.genelec.com/hc/en-us/articles/360019582539-Can-I-connect-my-digital-SAM-monitors-to-S-PDIF-directly-

 

[strea]

S/PDIF is compatible with AES so there's no actual requirement to have AES-out, and it's far easier to find a preamp/interface/DAC with S/PDIF out (or directly from your computer) to get a digital signal to your Genelecs.

I'm planning a purchase of the 8350:s and my plan is this:

PC S/PDIF/RCA female --> male-male S/PDIF-RCA cable --> female-male-RCA>BNC-adapter --> female-male-BNC-Neutrik-AES impedance converter --> male-to-female AES/EBU-cable --> Genelec #1 --> female-male- AES/EBU-cable --> Genelec #2

Apologies if it has already been brought up.

I see. I suppose I'm looking for the "least points of failure so to say". I have little understanding of these adaptors and connectors and I'm sure your system will sound great but the simplicity of going from PC -> USB AES Interface such as MOTU 8D -> 8330/7350 feels good to me, even if it is an extra few hundred. I'd rather pay the premium than worry about if my connectors/converters/impedance is correct etc. Buy once and done for me optimally.

 

[kniff]

I see. I suppose I'm looking for the "least points of failure so to say". I have little understanding of these adaptors and connectors and I'm sure your system will sound great but the simplicity of going from PC -> USB AES Interface such as MOTU 8D -> 8330/7350 feels good to me, even if it is an extra few hundred. I'd rather pay the premium than worry about if my connectors/converters/impedance is correct etc. Buy once and done for me optimally.

I see the appeal. As bodhi pointed out though, if you are keeping your cable runs short - this is all that is really needed to connect a S/PDIF source to Genelec Speakers:

pro snake AES/EBU SPDIF Cable 3

Digital Interface Cables Length: 3 m, XLR female -> RCA male, Suitable for all RME Fireface Cards, 110 Ω, Colour: Black, Made in Germany

www.thomann.de

Set max volume via GLM (to avoid any mishaps) and fine-tune volume in your PC.

 

[strea]

I see the appeal. As bodhi pointed out though, if you are keeping your cable runs short - this is all that is really needed to connect a S/PDIF source to Genelec Speakers:

pro snake AES/EBU SPDIF Cable 3

Digital Interface Cables Length: 3 m, XLR female -> RCA male, Suitable for all RME Fireface Cards, 110 Ω, Colour: Black, Made in Germany

www.thomann.de

I have SPDIF out from my ASUS x570 Dark Hero motherboard, but it looks like toslink? (has the protector cover thing) rather than the RCA type input. Says SPDIF above it and protective cover is glowing red from underneath.

 

[kniff]

I have SPDIF out from my ASUS x570 Dark Hero motherboard, but it looks like toslink? (has the protector cover thing) rather than the RCA type input. Says SPDIF above it and protective cover is glowing red from underneath.

You will need a middleman device then, S/PDIF ones are a lot cheaper than AES though.

"Direct" connect version = Toslink (from your ASUS x570 Dark Hero) <-> Coax/RCA Converter: https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/digi...-to-coaxial-converter-reversible-p-15796.html

or streamers/dac such as:

BTA30

FiiO--Born for Music

www.fiio.com

E10K-Type C

FiiO--Born for Music

www.fiio.com

WiiMPro - Overview

(https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../wiim-pro-review-measurements-streamer.42300/)