GLM4 4.2.0 a big improvement in sound quality

[srrxr71]

If you have the GLM kit connected all the time , the best sound is to use the GLM drawer for volume regulation ( works after the dsp ) and have the digital source volume into the loudspeakers at full level, yes. In this case, theres no need to set the gain .

And yes - If You have the GLM kit connected all the time its very easy to do comparisons .

That large aluminum volume knob is one of the best perks of the Genelec ecosystem.

 

[srrxr71]

Do you use digital or analog inputs to the Genelec?

Digital. Straight out of a topping D10b

 

[srrxr71]

This is where a subwoofer and a higher crossover can be useful if the subwoofer can be placed in a better position than the monitor. Do note that Genelec has a steep 48 dB/octave crossover slope.

Yes I have 2 7360 placed inside of the monitors’ postion. As you can see in my plot (if you saw it) I need to optimize the right subwoofer position some more.

Yes initially I tried to use the subs to compensate for the bad position (for bass) of the mains. Keeping the crossover high has some detriments.

One it will reduce the subwoofer headroom. Two it makes the bass more flabby sounding. However right now for my left monitor I have play up to 90Hz to cover for the dip in the monitor. For the right I keep it lower at 70Hz.

When the 8361s get here I will try to target 60Hz let the woofers in the mains do some work. Hopefully I can find a better position for the left monitor. No use doing it now as the stand height and acoustic center of the new monitors will be different and also I will install a cloud of 244 traps on the ceiling.

So with 8341 and 2 x 7360 the 2 7360s clip a lot. I’m hoping when my 8361s get here next week they will be relieved some. Trying to avoid getting 7380 but I kind of want one sitting right next to me. I want to feel that bass.

 

[Tangband]

This is where a subwoofer and a higher crossover can be useful if the subwoofer can be placed in a better position than the monitor. Do note that Genelec has a steep 48 dB/octave crossover slope.

I have pretty much done that but still working on 1 as the left monitor has a large dip at 75Hz. The right monitor is pretty flat without correction.

My question is about 4. So I keep all my digital sources maxed out (windows at 98 volume) however I use the GLM volume control for gain. Do I still need to set a gain into the monitors?

I have played with crossovers and yes lower is tighter. Also keeps my subs’ headroom higher.



For 7, I can just hit the calibration button in GLM to turn on and off calibration to compare. Also I can turn off the bass management and the subs by toggling “bass management” in GLM. Always good to check. Sometimes there is a surprise which needs to be fixed.

Totally agree that final tuning must be by hand and ear.

If you have a dip at 75 Hz with only one speaker, then its probably a single reflection from a side wall and not a resonance ( resonance- bouncing many times between two walls ) . I wouldnt worry much about that dip at 75 Hz because its much less disturbing than a resonance, especially If the wall-reflection has a high Q and is narrow.

Most rooms have the lowest wall to wall resonance somewhere between 25-35 Hz . You can try to do no correction in GLM at all below 30 Hz ( lowering all corrections to zero ) because the ear often likes to have more energy at 20-30 Hz.

You also have not many clean bass tones below 30 Hz that can disturb the perceived pitch of bass tunes, so If there is more energy below 30 Hz it might be beneficial for the sound impact.

 

[Trell]

Digital. Straight out of a topping D10b

I use analogue input for my Genelec 8330A and 7360A subwoofer, so I set the volume using GLM low enough to avoid them placing too loud.

Since you use the GLM volume control perhaps set the volume elsewhere so that a fullscale does not blow your ears off.

 

[srrxr71]

If you have a dip at 75 Hz with only one speaker, then its probably a single reflection from a side wall and not a resonance ( resonance- bouncing many times between two walls ) . I wouldnt worry much about that dip at 75 Hz because its much less disturbing than a resonance, especially If the wall-reflection has a high Q and is narrow.
Most rooms have the lowest wall to wall resonance somewhere between 25-35 Hz . You can try to do no correction in GLM at all below 30 Hz because the ear often likes to have more energy at 20-30 Hz.

Yes but it’s not as narrow as I’d like. That whole alcove is covered with 244 traps and the corner with tri traps. Those will get upgraded to soffit bass traps with range limiter in a few weeks.

Also this brings me to another question. What is the quality factor as reported by GRADE report?

Yes so I calculated my lowest mode thanks to another poster giving me the formula. It’s 16Hz roughly. I have a 35 foot long side including the kitchen.

Also yes. I’ve given that low end an upward rising “tail”

 

[srrxr71]

I use analogue input for my Genelec 8330A and 7360A subwoofer, so I set the volume using GLM low enough to avoid them placing too loud.

Since you use the GLM volume control perhaps set the volume elsewhere so that a fullscale does not blow your ears off.

It does not blow my ears off it only blows my mind but not enough therefore 8361s are coming to help with that.

Honestly 8341 is not enough for 9ft distance and extensive trapping cutting my perceived SPL.

When the 8361 comes I would have to be careful about where I leave the volume knob position to avoid surprises. It hasn’t been an issue for me though.

 

[Tangband]

Yes I have 2 7360 placed inside of the monitors’ postion. As you can see in my plot (if you saw it) I need to optimize the right subwoofer position some more.

Yes initially I tried to use the subs to compensate for the bad position (for bass) of the mains. Keeping the crossover high has some detriments.

One it will reduce the subwoofer headroom. Two it makes the bass more flabby sounding. However right now for my left monitor I have play up to 90Hz to cover for the dip in the monitor. For the right I keep it lower at 70Hz.

When the 8361s get here I will try to target 60Hz let the woofers in the mains do some work. Hopefully I can find a better position for the left monitor. No use doing it now as the stand height and acoustic center of the new monitors will be different and also I will install a cloud of 244 traps on the ceiling.

So with 8341 and 2 x 7360 the 2 7360s clip a lot. I’m hoping when my 8361s get here next week they will be relieved some. Trying to avoid getting 7380 but I kind of want one sitting right next to me. I want to feel that bass.

You seems to have a good ear for bass tuning , just keep on and the sound will be marvelous.

 

[srrxr71]

You seems to have a good ear for bass tuning , just keep on and the sound will be marvelous.

Haha thanks. My imagination already thinking about moving that 152lb beast of a sub. Then how it will rock my world.



What does this mean?

 

[Tangband]

Digital. Straight out of a topping D10b

Im not saying that the sound will be better with a better DDC , you have to try it and make judgements, but spdif and AES/EBU is somewhat sensitive to the source clocking and noise. This is my experience after testing some cheap DCC:s with my 8340.
The topping D10b might be really good , but in the pricerange that youre playing in, I would test a Matrix-X spdif2 DDC .

If the sound from the source in this way gets better, the deep bass and the overall quality of the sound will also be better, without the need to switch speakers.

 

[srrxr71]

Im not saying that the sound will be better with a better DDC , you have to try it and make judgements, but spdif and AES/EBU is somewhat sensitive to the source clocking and noise. This is my experience after testing some cheap DCC:s with my 8340.
The topping D10b might be really good , but in the pricerange that youre playing in, I would test a Matrix-X spdif2 DDC .

If the sound from the source in this way gets better, the deep bass and the overall quality of the sound will also be better.
View attachment 238827

Cannot hurt and as you might have noticed i’m not sparing any expense. I do like the sample rate display on the Topping.

So my actual source is the Blusound node -> USB to Topping to impedance converter to the first 7360 and so forth.

I wish there were one that went direct to AES instead of needing the impedance converter.

EDIT: Version 3 has an AES out! Just released 2 days ago. Perfect timing. Also they fixed that silly green LED.

Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 3 https://a.co/ajTEKmd

 

[Tangband]

Haha thanks. My imagination already thinking about moving that 152lb beast of a sub. Then how it will rock my world.



What does this mean?

It seems like they call ”quality factor” the Q value.

 

[Tangband]

Cannot hurt and as you might have noticed i’m not sparing any expense. I do like the sample rate display on the Topping.

So my actual source is the Blusound node -> USB to Topping to impedance converter to the first 7360 and so forth.

I wish there were one that went direct to AES instead of needing the impedance converter.

The Matrix X spdif2 have that. AES is a balanced way of RCA spdif with slightly different levels.

You could try daisychaining the digital signal for your speakers like this: Source to right main speaker, then to left main speaker, then to left subwoofer and last to right subwoofer .
With an unbalanced long spdif signal you get some mains and RF noise at the last speaker , and it might be less bad for the sound if the subwoofers have that digital signal. You have to try If there is a difference.

Also always use a DMX cable, for 110 Ohm . Adam Hall K3DMF0300 DMX aes/ebu is a good cable.

​

 

[srrxr71]

It seems like they call ”quality factor” the Q value.

So higher is better or worse? 17 doesn’t seem too good.

 

[Tangband]

So higher is better or worse? 17 doesn’t seem too good.

Q= high number = very narrow reflection or resonance .
A Q value of 17 is so narrow you cant hear it = no need to correct it (?)

A low Q number is below 3.

 

[Trell]

So higher is better or worse? 17 doesn’t seem too good.

As @Tangband wrote above.

 

[srrxr71]

Thank you both. So that’s great. I’ll just drop the crossover frequency and enjoy. I don’t think I have any under 3. I’ll check again.

 

[Filio45]

You could try daisychaining the digital signal for your speakers like this: Source to right main speaker, then to left main speaker, then to left subwoofer and last to right subwoofer .

what difference does that make with going source to sub and finally speakers, out of interest?

 

[srrxr71]

what difference does that make with going source to sub and finally speakers, out of interest?

He’s just saying that in case there is some rfi introduced then better the subs get the longest cabling. Because it would do less damage in those frequencies. It’s sort of theoretical and more of a “best practice” sort of thing.

 

[Tangband]

He’s just saying that in case there is some rfi introduced then better the subs get the longest cabling. Because it would do less damage in those frequencies. It’s sort of theoretical and more of a “best practice” sort of thing.

Yes, and the sound might anyway be exactly the same regardless on how you daisy chain. With a DDC with balanced AES output there should not be any difference at all with noise.