GLM4 4.2.0 a big improvement in sound quality

[Trell]

He’s just saying that in case there is some rfi introduced then better the subs get the longest cabling. Because it would do less damage in those frequencies. It’s sort of theoretical and more of a “best practice” sort of thing.

With the short distances we talk about here using properly constructed cables, how can that be?

And in this case the signal is digital to monitors as well as subwoofers, so why?

 

[srrxr71]

With the short distances we talk about here using properly constructed cables, how can that be?

It a “just in case” “best practice” thing. Doesn’t cost you anything. Most likely won’t make a difference.

I won’t rewire my current setup however when I get my new monitors I will consider it.

Now this is actually against how Genelec tell you to wire to the sub first. I don’t know why and it probably doesn’t make a difference.

Honestly given the right sub is low on the ground and close to the DDC I will just go there first then monitor R to monitor L then sub 2 then sub 3.

 

[Trell]

It a “just in case” “best practice” thing. Doesn’t cost you anything. Most likely won’t make a difference.

Sure, there can be good practices to follow, but not for that reason.

 

[Filio45]

Understood. -)

 

[Trell]

Now this is actually against how Genelec tell you to wire to the sub first. I don’t know why and it probably doesn’t make a difference.

Personally I would follow the detailed Genelec manual, unless I had very good reasons otherwise.

 

[srrxr71]

Yeah I mean one way or another not a huge deal or even a small one.

It’s like making a 50 scoop sundae with hot fudge, strawberries, caramel, etc etc and then figuring out if you want to put a fresh cherry or a maraschino cherry on the top.

 

[Trell]

Yeah I mean one way or another not a huge deal or even a small one.

It’s like making a 50 scoop sundae with hot fudge, strawberries, caramel, etc etc and then figuring out if you want to put a fresh cherry or a maraschino cherry on the top.

Your example of a drink is personal taste of what you like. Absolutely nothing wrong with that in any way.

As for digital interconnects: Either the bits arrive in a timely, unmolested fashion, or they don’t. That’s it, really.

 

[srrxr71]

Your example of a drink is personal taste of what you like. Absolutely nothing wrong with that in any way.

As for digital interconnects: Either the bits arrive in a timely, unmolested fashion, or they don’t. That’s it, really.

Yes pretty much just snap them in. Now in which order you snap them in etc is just preference.

Yes I see that a sundae with one or the other cherry will taste different. In this case no difference in reality but could be psychological peace for you. Who knows?

We are getting into philosophical discussion about cables haha.

Digital cables no less.

 

[Tangband]

With the short distances we talk about here using properly constructed cables, how can that be?

And in this case the signal is digital to monitors as well as subwoofers, so why?

He ( and I ) are using a digital DDC with unbalanced spdif signal to our Genelecs . The Genelec monitors are made for AES/EBU thats spdif in balanced form and a slightly different level. Using unbalanced spdif is fine with the genelecs , but only If you have shorter lenghts of cable ( 3 meter according to some people at Genelec .)

In practice theres usually no problem but unbalanced spdif IS a inferior protocol for the SAM monitors - you will get some noise in the cables exactly the same as you get with longer analog RCA cables. This noise is analog in caracter.

 

[srrxr71]

He ( and I ) are using a digital DDC with unbalanced spdif signal to our Genelecs . The Genelec monitors are made for AES/EBU thats spdif in balanced form and a slightly different level. Using unbalanced spdif is fine with the genelecs , but only If you have shorter lenghts of cable ( 3 meter according to some people at Genelec .)

In practice theres usually no problem but unbalanced spdif IS an inferior protocol for the SAM monitors - you will get some noise in the cables exactly the same as you get with longer RCA cables. This noise is analog and can in worst case contaminate the electronics inside the speakers.

But you can use, like I have, a proper 75ohm coax to BNC short cable to a Canare impedance converter.

That first cable I connect with the shortest distance to the nearest device “just in case”. Then from there it probably doesn’t matter since the signal is probably reclocked and reamplified by that first device.

 

[Trell]

He ( and I ) are using a digital DDC with unbalanced spdif signal to our Genelecs . The Genelec monitors are made for AES/EBU thats spdif in balanced form and a slightly different level. Using unbalanced spdif is fine with the genelecs , but only If you have shorter lenghts of cable ( 3 meter according to some people at Genelec .)

In practice theres usually no problem but unbalanced spdif IS a inferior protocol for the SAM monitors - you will get some noise in the cables exactly the same as you get with longer analog RCA cables. This noise is analog in caracter.

So not using proper digital interconnects. There are also analog connections one can use for the Genelec, assuming the source has balanced out, of course.

 

[Tangband]

But you can use, like I have, a proper 75ohm coax to BNC short cable to a Canare impedance converter.

That first cable I connect with the shortest distance to the nearest device “just in case”. Then from there it probably doesn’t matter since the signal is probably reclocked and reamplified by that first device.

even if you have that converter, its still an unbalanced signal from the topping spdif output.

 

[srrxr71]

even if you have that converter, its still an unbalanced signal from the topping spdif output.

Agreed. It can technically catch rfi on the way to the converter. Now since bits are either on or off i’m not too worried about it.

However since you mentioned the Matrix Spdif 3 and it does output AES it’s worth a try.

Would I hear a difference? Hard to say. People do claim to in the reviews.

I would at least try it. I’d rather not put down something without trying it. I am skeptical I will be honest. But if I can get one from a seller with a good return policy I will try it.

I don’t know the exact details of the Genelec AES port - I suppose I should refer to the year down thread - but probably they isolate galvanically or otherwise filter that out such that it does not appear in the output.

It might be the cherry on top for “peace of mind” or proper aes without all the connections and converters in the path. Once you’ve invested this much into a system sometimes you would just pay for that piece of mind.

Right now i’m working up the budget for that 3rd sub. I think my money for now is better spent there.

I don’t know is anyone has let’s say polluted the AES signal and sent it to a Genelec and tested for sure if it does or does not appear at the output.

I guess the whole point of digital was that either your signal is good enough or it’s not. Then jitter showed up. I guess that’s all that could maybe potentially be audible.

Maybe I might look into one those RME things that everyone is using. Then I could have an additional layer of tone control.

What do you think of the UIO-8 by miniDSP? It would do the job and also allow me to play with crossover on Windows software like acourate. I could send different channels to the 3 subs.

I would pay for some flexibility like that in addition to solving a possible non problem even a bit extra for gain features like sample rate display and another layer of pEq.

 

[srrxr71]

I tested out some of your ideas. Oh my gosh. Haha. Yes definitely consider the human hearing curve. The curve used to calculate dBa And use your space and walls to get free! Bass power. At the lowest frequencies only power matters. You barely can hear it anyway. But you can feel it. Why not get that for free?

It does not make it more accurate audibly to limit it. Better to harness it.

I really appreciate your advice.

Edit: also I decided to cut at 60Hz where I have a room resonance. That tightened things up. Also set crossover to 60Hz. Definitely better sounding to me

 

[Tangband]

I tested out some of your ideas. Oh my gosh. Haha. Yes definitely consider the human hearing curve. The curve used to calculate dBa And use your space and walls to get free! Bass power. At the lowest frequencies only power matters. You barely can hear it anyway. But you can feel it. Why not get that for free?

It does not make it more accurate audibly to limit it. Better to harness it.

I really appreciate your advice.

Edit: also I decided to cut at 60Hz where I have a room resonance. That tightened things up. Also set crossover to 60Hz. Definitely better sounding to me

Good to hear

 

[srrxr71]

Good to hear

Yes also I can get smart. Basically calibrate. Then copy it in GLM and play with the copy. So I can just easily compare any time and play with the pEq more. I always have the safe reference to go back to from which I can explore.

GLM is a game changer.

 

[e_h]

Im not saying that the sound will be better with a better DDC , you have to try it and make judgements, but spdif and AES/EBU is somewhat sensitive to the source clocking and noise. This is my experience after testing some cheap DCC:s with my 8340.
The topping D10b might be really good , but in the pricerange that youre playing in, I would test a Matrix-X spdif2 DDC .

If the sound from the source in this way gets better, the deep bass and the overall quality of the sound will also be better, without the need to switch speakers.
View attachment 238827

Perhaps this might also be an alternative at a similar price, even though it has spdif instead of AES out (solved by adding for example Neutrik NADITBNC-M for conversion to AES and correct impedance). The volume control could be useful if one isn't constantly connected to a PC using GLM, and it also adds optical+spdif/rca inputs which enables you to connect for example a Wiim streamer.
Do note that there are three versions with different outputs, I'm referring of course to the one with digital outputs.
Btw - if anyone knows how using the volume control on this device vs at the source (Wiim with Spotify for example) would impact the sound quality, I'd appreciate some input.

miniDSP Flex

Pocket size processor with flexible Input/Output configuration, Audiophile converters, 400MHz Sharc DSP processor, BT connectivity, DSP toolbox for subwoofer and multiway crossover, Dirac Live optional upgrade

www.minidsp.com

Re the order in which to connect the speakers digitally I recently emailed Genelec support about this and they recommend to put the sub either first or last in the chain (adding that it should work in a different order as well). I suppose this means that if you have one sub on each side you could go source-sub1-monitors-sub2, while following the official recommendation.

I've been lurking around here for a few weeks so I figured I'd register and add something, hopefully semi-useful

 

[srrxr71]

Keep in the kind the GLM unit can be powered from any USB A charger and does not need to be connected to a PC. It does have to be connected to the monitors and subs though.

 

[Trell]

Keep in the kind the GLM unit can be powered from any USB A charger and does not need to be connected to a PC. It does have to be connected to the monitors and subs though.

After setup the GLM unit does not need to be connected at all, unless you want/need to control volume the volume with it.

 

[srrxr71]

After setup the GLM unit does not need to be connected at all, unless you want/need to control volume the volume with it

Yes and I can’t think of a better volume control than that solid aluminum volume knob.

Also these monitors and subs ship with the “save to monitors switch off” remember to switch that before you install. Now I have to get behind my 8361 to find those switches.

Always save to monitors even if you intend to keep GLM connected.

But i’m sure you already knew these things.