Genelec 8361A Review (Powered Monitor)

[kyle_neuron]

Well - sorry folks for me to also to come back on that repetitive question.
I certainly have read all the messages on this thread right from the beginning (and plenty others on that subject) with great interest, but sometimes answers just don't match my very low level of technical competence - sorry.

In practice (and for dummies as me), would that mean that I can just use the digital output of my Node3 (optical or coaxial) with a "short" cable adapter "coax to AES" like https://www.thomannmusic.com/pro_snake_aes_ebu_spdif_cable_male_3.htm ?

I guess I could also translate my question in :"Are the digital outputs of the Node 3 = spdif"? (here you get an impression about my level of technical expertise ).

I guess volume/level is best handled via the volume control knob attached to the GLM-kit (rather than through the Node then)?

Thks

SPDIF is compatible with AES3 as a protocol, but the cable impedances and drive voltages are not the same as AES3.

However, in many circumstances using a simple adapter with short cables works fine. Until it doesn't. Being digital, you know when that happens because the signal drops completely.

Personally, I'd try it with the adapter cable first. If it's set and forget, then happy days. If you have intermittent issues, then you can get a 75 Ohm RCA-RCA SPDIF cable, a 110 Ohm XLR male to XLR female cable (a cheap DMX 3-pin will be fine) and one of these impedance converters:
https://www.neutrik.com/en/product/naditbnc-m

 

[amper42]

There's a similar resolution problem happening with the Revel F208 and F328Be. I brought this up several times when people were asking "why does the F328Be cost twice as much, but measure worse?". Putting them side by side, it's clear the shape between those two speakers is almost exactly the same. The only real difference is that F328Be has way more "jaggies", as it was measured at a higher resolution(2000 vs 1000). The F328Be actually seemed to need all those measurement points for the more complicated parts of the response, so Amir had to do it, but it unfortunately seems to have added extra (imo inaudible) ripples in the more simple parts that confuse people and lower the Olive score.

Perhaps there is a way(with smoothing) to equalize these resolution differences? That would make it easier to do direct comparisons. I know that @pierre has brought up potential solutions before via smoothing, but I don't know if it's entirely fixable.

When you first look at the ASR posted speaker scores for "with and without sub" it lead me to believe this is somewhat definitive and can be relied upon as a reasonable quality guide. I bought the Revel M105 after purchasing the Revel F328Be based on the M105 ASR score. I thought since the Revel M105 "with sub score 8.2" was significantly higher (1.7 points or 20% higher) than the Revel F328Be without sub (score 6.5) that it would be worth listening to. Boy was that a learning experience.

While the M105 sounds nice in a smaller room, it's tweeter and midrange can't come close to the POWER of the F328Be. It's not even a competition. The F328Be is in a whole different league and you would expect that based on price. But the ASR score was telling a different story. Don't get me wrong. I like the Revel curve offered by the M105 but to rate it higher than the F328Be with subs is a BIG mistake. These two speakers don't compare closely at all even when the M105 has dual subs.

What did I learn? I can't count on the ASR speaker scores for purchases. I wanted to do just that but unfortunately the scores don't relate well against each other. You better go listen to the speakers because that ASR score can easily be misleading. Not trying to be critical - but readers should understand those ASR speaker score comparisons can't be relied upon when comparing two speakers without listening to them side by side. Caveat Emptor.

 

[sweetchaos]

Comparison between Revel F328Be and Genelec 8361A:

Spoiler

 

[Holmz]

A material thats less stiff like MDF is gonna collect energy from the driveunit, and release it somewhat after the signal. This might look good in ordinary sine-sweeps , but the effect of it is a slightly detached and time-smeared perceived pitch of the tones that the instruments are playing.
…

Does ^that stored energy effect^ show up in the impulse function?
or
Is it purely subjective?

 

[Holmz]

…
So - Genelec knows a few things of the art and science of making good loudspeakers, thats for sure.

I get the science part.

But maybe I am not too good at seeing the art?

And they could consider selling some sticky spiderman gloves to hold the things… It reminds me of a bar of wet soap. It seems like it is great on stands, but if one is moving them from ensue to venue… it seems like it should be easier to get a grip on em.

 

[Sancus]

I thought since the Revel M105 "with sub score 8.2"

The scores don't include power handling or output. However, this tends to make the "with sub" score extra misleading IMO, because it strongly implies you can just add a sub to a smaller speaker and it will perform the same as a larger one. This is obviously false since there is still a big difference above the sub crossover, and while I do think larger bookshelves(heck, the 8361A IS a large bookshelf) definitely compete with floorstanders with subs, speakers with 5-6" woofers or smaller really really suffer in mid-bass and midrange output to a degree that makes for an obvious and audible flaw at ~75-80dB(avg) listening levels.

So yeah, the score comes with caveats, and the "with sub" scores come with even more caveats. They are just meant to make bucket-sorting of hundreds of speaker reviews even possible, not to decide between somewhat-different-but-very-good speakers.

Incidentally, the first 328Be score/measurements were wrong. The updated one is 6.5/7.8 vs 5.9/8.2 for the M105. With scores really close like those, where one speaker has far more output and an additional way, and the other has a very small woofer, the correct conclusion is that the larger speaker will be audibly better.

 

[sweetchaos]

What did I learn? I can't count on the ASR speaker scores for purchases.

We can...just not on the preference score alone.
It separates the men from the boys.
In this case, both Revels showed good frequency response (both are "men", lol), so both are easily recommended...just depends on the use case.

The spinorama (and the calculated "preference score") doesnt take into account power handling or distortion handling or your preference for wide or narrow dispersion speakers.
That's up to us to figure out.

 

[Blumlein 88]

The scores don't include power handling or output. However, this tends to make the "with sub" score extra misleading IMO, because it strongly implies you can just add a sub to a smaller speaker and it will perform the same as a larger one. This is obviously false since there is still a big difference above the sub crossover, and while I do think larger bookshelves(heck, the 8361A IS a large bookshelf) definitely compete with floorstanders with subs, speakers with 5-6" woofers or smaller really really suffer in mid-bass and midrange output to a degree that makes for an obvious and audible flaw at ~75-80dB(avg) listening levels.

So yeah, the score comes with caveats, and the "with sub" scores come with even more caveats. They are just meant to make bucket-sorting of hundreds of speaker reviews even possible, not to decide between somewhat-different-but-very-good speakers.

Incidentally, the first 328Be score/measurements were wrong. The updated one is 6.5/7.8 vs 5.9/8.2 for the M105. With scores really close like those, where one speaker has far more output and an additional way, and the other has a very small woofer, the correct conclusion is that the larger speaker will be audibly better.

+1 to all of this. Floorstanders with plenty of square inches of woofer actually match up better when you add a sub. Bookshelves benefit greatly too, but at higher sound levels and/or larger rooms they can't keep up cleanly with the subs. While a floorstander with more or bigger woofers can.

 

[Nicholas B]

In Aus, due to currency and the "Australia tax"... a pair of these is $16K. Direct conversion should be $13.7K, alas.



JSmith

Actually, the most common price (RRP) many places are selling them at in Australia is AU$17,450 for a pair (~US$13,000). That does however include 10% GST.

 

[tktran303]

We can...just not on the preference score alone.
It separates the men from the boys.
In this case, both Revels showed good frequency response (both are "men", lol), so both are easily recommended...just depends on the use case.

The spinorama (and the calculated "preference score") doesnt take into account power handling or distortion handling or your preference for wide or narrow dispersion speakers.
That's up to us to figure out.

Correct. According to Sean Olive, there's room for future research in this area. I mean it's great that it's taken decades to get to this this point, but if you listen to his interview with @hardisj; it doesn't take into account some other factors, and there's room for more research.

But the very minimum is the spinorama or CTA2034.

 

[JSmith]

Actually, the most common price (RRP) many places are selling them at in Australia is AU$17,450 for a pair (~US$13,000). That does however include 10% GST.

Sounds Easy is selling for circa $8/16K with delivery... unsure where you're seeing this higher price, but it's a fair bit higher.



JSmith

 

[jhaider]

So $25k for 5.0

You don’t need the effects speakers (side/rear/height) to be the same as LCR.

Correct. According to Sean Olive, there's room for future research in this area. I mean it's great that it's taken decades to get to this this point, but if you listen to his interview with @hardisj; it doesn't take into account some other factors, and there's room for more research.

But the very minimum is the spinorama or CTA2034.

I assume spins weren’t included because James couldn’t get the needed verticals for such a large speaker without putting the speaker or his measurement kit in danger.

However, I tend to agree that horizontal polars with listening window are often more useful than a spin. One advantage there is no PIR. I think that squiggle throws more people off than it helps.

 

[Ra1zel]

I think really interesting and fair comparison would be those or 8351B vs GGNTKT M1. M1 has some traits that many here would consider advantageous I imagine.
- Wider beam
- Cardioid radiation pattern to 200Hz
- 121dB peaks
- Cheaper (6000€ for a pair of the extra power version)
- Looks better (for some) and can be ordered in any RAL color and even automotive finishes for extra €.

You could also wait for M2 but that is going to be 12 000€ most likely. Then for 12k€ there is also Gradient and their new flagship R-5A.

 

[richard12511]

I think really interesting and fair comparison would be those or 8351B vs GGNTKT M1. M1 has some traits that many here would consider advantageous I imagine.
- Wider beam
- Cardioid radiation pattern to 200Hz
- 121dB peaks
- Cheaper (6000€ for a pair of the extra power version)
- Looks better (for some) and can be ordered in any RAL color and even automotive finishes for extra €.

View attachment 165485

You could also wait for M2 but that is going to be 12 000€ most likely. Then for 12k€ there is also Gradient and their new flagship R-5A.

Yeah, that speaker gives you a lot for the price. The big thing it's missing in comparison to the 8361 is bass.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I think really interesting and fair comparison would be those or 8351B vs GGNTKT M1. M1 has some traits that many here would consider advantageous I imagine.
- Wider beam
- Cardioid radiation pattern to 200Hz
- 121dB peaks
- Cheaper (6000€ for a pair of the extra power version)
- Looks better (for some) and can be ordered in any RAL color and even automotive finishes for extra €.

View attachment 165485

You could also wait for M2 but that is going to be 12 000€ most likely. Then for 12k€ there is also Gradient and their new flagship R-5A.

Reliability pushes me towards Genelec and Neumann and few others, who knows , the M1 could be better @half price but I feel more comfortable with a "traditional" manufacture

 

[Nicholas B]

Sounds Easy is selling for circa $8/16K with delivery... unsure where you're seeing this higher price, but it's a fair bit higher.



JSmith

Yes, I've seen the Sounds Easy prices. Those are the lowest prices. StoreDJ, Mannys, and other prof. audio places though are selling for full retail ($17450).

However, until my Duntech Black Knight speakers (now 31 years old) go to speaker heaven, looking at the Genelecs will just remain an exercise in wishful thinking .

 

[Ra1zel]

Yeah, that speaker gives you a lot for the price. The big thing it's missing in comparison to the 8361 is bass.

True, it would be magic if 2 way 320cm^2 woofer area could match 3 way ~560cm^2 woofer area. On the upside when you buy M1 instead of 8361A you are left with 4000€ for subwoofers... or a lot of albums and quality alcohol.

 

[stunta]

@amirm you mentioned the Salon 2s project a larger image than these. Are the dynamics comparable to the Salon 2s?

 

[NepinMn]

True, it would be magic if 2 way 320cm^2 woofer area could match 3 way ~560cm^2 woofer area. On the upside when you buy M1 instead of 8361A you are left with 4000€ for subwoofers... or a lot of albums and quality alcohol.

Where is the price for the M1 listed? I've searched and never found it.

 

[tktran303]

Yes, I've seen the Sounds Easy prices. Those are the lowest prices. StoreDJ, Mannys, and other prof. audio places though are selling for full retail ($17450).

However, until my Duntech Black Knight speakers (now 31 years old) go to speaker heaven, looking at the Genelecs will just remain an exercise in wishful thinking .

If you’re Australian; PM me and I’ll send some pointers to where we go to outfit our studios.

Some musicians have amazing studios but you won’t find them on Google.

First check out TurraMurra and Sweetwater then PM me.