Genelec 8361A Review (Powered Monitor)

[dfuller]

As the 8361A costs the same as DD 8C and kii 3 but lacks the built in subs
Does it make it much more inferior?

I can't say I'd be disappointed with a speaker that comfortably extends down into the 30hz area of things. 30hz is very near the bottom of a piano's range - the lowest fundamental on a normal piano is an A0 at 27.5hz.

Besides that, calling what the 8C and Kii have "subs" is a bit optimistic. Yeah, they reach down pretty much flat to 20hz - but look at Erin's distortion graphs. Both the 8C and the Kii are up above 10% THD down that low even at 86dB SPL. The 8361s on the other hand seem to genuinely not get severely distorted even in the bass region until you get up to eardrum shattering levels (up over 105dB/1m for one speaker, which is insanely loud). We're talking ~3% THD at 96dB/1m at 50hz in the 8361, if I'm looking at Amir's graphs right.

To reach that kind of distortion performance, the Kiis need subs - ideally, the BXTs, but that's close to doubling the price. The 8Cs need some kind of sub as well - I know my mastering engineer uses a pair of Rythmik F12Gs with his 8Cs.

 

[Sancus]

8361A costs the same as DD 8C and kii 3

Is there actually a place where the Kii 3 is that cheap or the others are that much more? In the US/Canada at least, the Kii is significantly more expensive at $7500 USD/ea. The 8C is about the same as the 8361($5K) in the studio version or a bit more if you want the nicer looking version with more features.

 

[Newman]

As the 8361A costs the same as DD 8C and kii 3 but lacks the built in subs
Does it make it much more inferior?

They are all “much more inferior” than much cheaper setups that are fully satisfying.

….since you introduced high price as a measure of inferiority…

 

[Pearljam5000]

They are all “much more inferior” than much cheaper setups that are fully satisfying.

….since you introduced high price as a measure of inferiority…

Like what?

 

[Newman]

HD800 = brighter, with beautiful harmonic detail of the strings
Genelec = strings sounded strained and fatiguing

When listening to these two recordings on the Genelecs, they sound okay (i.e. you don't know if that's just how the recording was made). But in comparison to the HD800 and a couple of other headphones I have (DCA Stealth and Denon D9200), the Genelecs come in last, and by quite a bit.

But since the HD800 are very common headphones, I figured some of the Genelec owners here might have them for comparison purposes. It's certainly possible that it's just my Genelec set up in an unfavorable room, or perhaps not.

Since Floyd Toole said, in this thread just recently, that Olive’s recent work persuasively shows that the most preferred headphones are the ones that sound most like good speakers in a good room, and the Genelec’s measurements are sure to qualify them as good speakers, your comment above can only be explained in ways that you didn’t intend:-

• Your room is not a good room
• Your sighted listening reports are useless to anyone reading them

The second one can be taken as a given, making the first one moot, but also entirely possible.

 

[Newman]

…Anyways it's disappointing the Genelecs were that bad in comparison

Why do people keep giving credence to sighted listening reports?!?!

 

[Frgirard]

Since Floyd Toole said, in this thread just recently, that Olive’s recent work persuasively shows that the most preferred headphones are the ones that sound most like good speakers in a good room, and the Genelec’s measurements are sure to qualify them as good speakers, your comment above can only be explained in ways that you didn’t intend:-

• Your room is not a good room
• Your sighted listening reports are useless to anyone reading them

The second one can be taken as a given, making the first one moot, but also entirely possible.

A good speaker in a bad room like the traditional living room become a bad speaker.

 

[Newman]

Toole tells us that a well-managed traditional living room can be a good room.

 

[Laserjock]

Still trying to figure out how to mount my Revel F208s upside down and keep tweeter close to ear level.

One good thing I guess with the Genelec

 

[Pearljam5000]

How does it makes sense that the ATC SCM100 has a 12 inch, and is gigantic and weights about double the 8361A but is close in specs?

 

[Trell]

How does it makes sense that the ATC SCM100 has a 12 inch, and is gigantic and weights about double the 8361A but is close in specs?
View attachment 169958

Two obvious ones:

1. Cabinet material.
2. Amplifier cooling needed.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Two obvious ones:

1. Cabinet material.
2. Amplifier cooling needed.

It would be interesting hearing them side by side and see if the 8361 sounds "smaller" than the ATCs

 

[Trell]

It would be interesting hearing them side by side and see if the 8361 sounds "smaller" than the ATCs

I'm pretty sure that their weight will make little, if any, difference.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I'm pretty sure that their weight will make little, if any, difference.

I'm talking more about their size(height, depth etc)

 

[Sancus]

specs?

You can't compare specs between manufacturers, for one thing. For two things, buy them and send to Amir so we can MAFO(measure and find out).

Thirdly, the bass amplifier on that ATC is only 200W. That's not a lot especially for a 12", KH420 is only 10" of normal-ish design and it's got 300W. Seems a bit odd the driver can't handle more power but that may be related.

 

[Trell]

I'm talking more about their size(height, depth etc)View attachment 169962View attachment 169963View attachment 169962

I'm not sure where you're going with this but the Genelec 8361A are coaxial while the ATC are not, along with other differences I posted above, so just comparing size is not a fair comparison of their audio performance. What matters in the end: Does it sound good to you in your room?

 

[Pearljam5000]

I'm not sure where you're going with this but the Genelec 8361A are coaxial while the ATC are not, along with other differences I posted above, so just comparing size is not a fair comparison of their audio performance. What matters in the end: Does it sound good to you in your room?

My point is
Bigger speakers usually sound "bigger" than smaller speakers
Yes I'm in the minority here when it comes to this
But even in this video they say the ATCs sound big when compared to the 8C

 

[dfuller]

How does it makes sense that the ATC SCM100 has a 12 inch, and is gigantic and weights about double the 8361A but is close in specs?
View attachment 169958

Simple: ATCs are not particularly known for their bass extension. This is intentional, their ports are designed more to reduce excursion than to extend linear response.

You can't compare specs between manufacturers, for one thing. For two things, buy them and send to Amir so we can MAFO(measure and find out).

Thirdly, the bass amplifier on that ATC is only 200W. That's not a lot especially for a 12", KH420 is only 10" of normal-ish design and it's got 300W. Seems a bit odd the driver can't handle more power but that may be related.

It's an old school discrete AB amp that has to fit in a smallish "amp pack" with two other separate amps. Probably just isn't space for more transistors. The bass driver can handle more power, up to 300 watts.

The KH420 uses I think 4 TDA7293s in BTL for the woofer, fwiw.

 

[preload]

Toole tells us that a well-managed traditional living room can be a good room.

I hope you understand that Toole is speaking in correlations, not absolutes. He is also providing plain-language summaries in this thread.

 

[preload]

Why do people keep giving credence to sighted listening reports?!?!

Simply because at the end of the day, the science and understanding of how measurements correlate with perceived sound quality is not complete. The gold standard for each individual is what sounds best to him/her. If the measurement seem to suggest Speaker A will sound better than Speaker B, but it doesn't, what are you expecting the end listener to say? "I will keep Speaker A even thought it doesn't sound as good to me because the people on ASR say it's supposed to sound better?"