Genelec 8361A Review (Powered Monitor)

[niesfisch]

The S/PDIF signal voltage is a fraction of that in the AES/EBU.

can i maybe ask (another) stupid question: i am trying to understand the implications of having different voltages between analog cinch (rca) and analog xlr in. from what i've read so far the voltage that comes out of the analog rca is up to 2 Volts (?) vs the input of AES/EBU around 4 Volts ... then we also have the impedance mismatch, 75ohm (rca) vs 110ohm (xlr). as genelec says on their FAQ and the thomann support guy told me it's fine having this connection for my consumer setup (let's leave aside the digital vs. analog discussion). so i really want to understand what happens on a technical level when i use this connection, so volt vs. volt and ohm vs. ohm ... i already googled but can't find any explanation that helps me understanding this or i am googling for wrong words (not native english speaker) . will it lead to a "weaker" signal beeing transported to the genelecs which result in less output power that speaker delivers? or is it just that the input signal is "weaker" compared the 4volts of xlr? any help appreciated - thanks in advance!
PS: this is the cable recommended by the thomann service which to me looks like "The 2-core method" version genelec recommends in the FAQ

 

[dshreter]

can i maybe ask (another) stupid question: i am trying to understand the implications of having different voltages between analog cinch (rca) and analog xlr in. from what i've read so far the voltage that comes out of the analog rca is up to 2 Volts (?) vs the input of AES/EBU around 4 Volts ... then we also have the impedance mismatch, 75ohm (rca) vs 110ohm (xlr). as genelec says on their FAQ and the thomann support guy told me it's fine having this connection for my consumer setup (let's leave aside the digital vs. analog discussion). so i really want to understand what happens on a technical level when i use this connection, so volt vs. volt and ohm vs. ohm ... i already googled but can't find any explanation that helps me understanding this or i am googling for wrong words (not native english speaker) . will it lead to a "weaker" signal beeing transported to the genelecs which result in less output power that speaker delivers? or is it just that the input signal is "weaker" compared the 4volts of xlr? any help appreciated - thanks in advance!
PS: this is the cable recommended by the thomann service which to me looks like "The 2-core method" version genelec recommends in the FAQ

The two standards AES/EBU and S/PDIF have different voltages (though not the ones you have above). AES/EBU is up to 3 volts, S/PDIF is max 0.6 volts I believe. So between the two you have a stronger signal with AES/EBU which makes it better suited to long runs because voltage is lost along the length of the wire.

There is also an impedance mismatch with 110 ohm vs 75 ohm, which means you have less efficient signal transfer if left unmatched. There are inexpensive impedance matching devices that can help with this if needed.

Where the rubber hits the road, the circuit in the speaker is able to work with a lower voltage signal from S/PDIF sources. This is a digital connection, so if the connection is still sufficient there is no reduction in sound quality or reduction in output power. The actual information communicated by the signal is exactly the same in both standards, so as long as you are not encountering errors there is no problem.

 

[niesfisch]

rca is up to 2 Volts (?) vs the input of AES/EBU

thanks for your answer. and i just recognized that i was asking about AES ... i meant to ask about RCA -> analog XLR - sorry. i wanted to understand the analog chain as an example ... will your answer for analog be the same?

 

[dshreter]

thanks for your answer. and i just recognized that i was asking about AES ... i meant to ask about RCA -> analog XLR - sorry. i wanted to understand the analog chain as an example ... will your answer for analog be the same?

You can configure the input sensitivity to be appropriate for the 2V output.

 

[sarumbear]

How can there be a wide sweet spot if the soundstage is small? View attachment 165983

On a different topic. How can a woofer be acoustically concealed if you hear it? Shouldn’t that be visually concealed woofer?

 

[Ron Texas]

There is no way the 708P even comes close to the sound quality of the 8361A IMO. Granted, my opinion here is based on owning the 705P and Genelec 8330A. The 705P are exceptional in terms of power, and indeed perform like a speaker one woofer size class up. But their sound quality, while excellent, isn’t as refined and smooth as the 8330A, let alone a 83X1.

The Genelec 83X1 series is another league beyond both of these, as a three-way coaxial design has much superior IMD as well as overall off-axis performance.

If you’re asking whether the 708P comes close to the 8351B or 8361A in sound quality, the answer is a definitive “no” IMO (and this is seen in the measurements as well as subjective impressions and theoretical concerns like IMD).

If you’re asking whether the 708P will get as loud and dynamic as you ever could dream of needing like the 8361A, I think the answer is yes. If you’re asking whether it is good enough for most people, well obviously it is. The 705P I have is great and I’m sure the 708P is even better. But the sound quality is not really comparable to Genelec 83X1.

IMO I think Amir is quite correct in designating these few speakers (Genelec 8361A, Revel F328Be, JBL 708P) as “endgame” level dynamics and power. But I don’t think he is saying the 708P is on par with the 8361A in terms of sound quality (though I could be wrong). Also, Amir (and others like myself) note that beam width differences are very important, and there’s no one “right” answer there. So depending on your preference, the F328Be or Salon2 may be a better endgame choice.

Maybe yes, maybe no. Sure it's a Genelec vs a JBL but not the ones in question. What I would love to see is a blind shootout of the 708p with EQ and 8361 at about 3 meters in a big room where the dynamics come into play. Now the Genelec would probably win, but by how much? There was a recent binaural recording thread around here where the second place speaker, a simple 2 way design, came in a strong second.

Better is easy to quantify, but good enough isn't. After all, $6k isn't chump change. Of course I could blow that on travel in a hurry.

 

[Futility]

On a different topic. How can a woofer be acoustically concealed if you hear it? Shouldn’t that be visually concealed woofer?

I guess, they jumbled together the phrase "acoustically transparent visually concealed"

 

[RobL]

On a different topic. How can a woofer be acoustically concealed if you hear it? Shouldn’t that be visually concealed woofer?

It’s explained pretty well in this article. They do actually mean “acoustically concealed”.

 

[sarumbear]

It’s explained pretty well in this article. They do actually mean “acoustically concealed”.

From the article. Emphasis is mine.

The innovative solution allows acoustically concealing the woofers seated in the front enclosure under the waveguide, creating a large continuous front baffle surface for mid and high frequencies.

In English the word conceal means to prevent something from being seen or known about. Call it pedantic or as the moderator thinks I am arguing unnecessarily but proper use of language is the only way humans can communicate. Otherwise why are we in a forum?

 

[samysound]

From the article. Emphasis is mine.



In English the word conceal means to prevent something from being seen or known about. Call it pedantic or as the moderator thinks I am arguing unnecessarily but proper use of language is the only way humans can communicate. Otherwise why are we in a forum?

I guess the woofers are acoustically concealed in the sense that they do not interfere with the the radiation of sound from coaixal driver?

 

[sarumbear]

I guess they are acoustically concealed in the sense that they do not interfere with the the radiation of sound from coaixal driver?

Conceal means hidden, acoustical means sound, what part of the woofer is acoustically hidden?

 

[TurtlePaul]

The acoustic concealment idea is interesting. There is no way that they could have fit a large enough driver on the faceplate of the monitor to make bass while also keeping the faceplate small and not breaking up the waveguide. While there may be some effect on the phase delay from slot loading like this, I think the Genelec obviously also optimized to get the lower bass out of the small enclosures in the One series

One point of secret sauce that I don't think is mentioned enough is the stretchy surround material Genelec is using between the tweeter and mid and between the mid and faceplate. If you look at how much attention the Kef shadowflare has gotten, it looks like Genelec is far ahead of them on this.

 

[RobL]

In English the word conceal means to prevent something from being seen or known about.

Conceal means hidden, acoustical means sound, what part of the woofer is acoustically hidden?

The both woofers are hidden(concealed) from the wavefront (sound) of the coaxial.

 

[TurtlePaul]

Conceal means hidden, acoustical means sound, what part of the woofer is acoustically hidden?

What is it hidden from? It is hidden from the tweeter. They are concealing the woofer from the tweeter. The tweeter needs an uninterrupted wave guide to avoid interference. Woofers have roll surrounds which stick out a half inch in front of the faceplate then have a huge cone which cuts into the faceplate. There is no way that you could fit the woofers in this small a vertical space without breaking the tweeter waveguide unless you conceal the woofers behind the face plate.

 

[sarumbear]

I wish I never had a degree in English...

 

[Thunder22]

What I find crazy is how much more the 61 weighs more than it's predecessors.​

	Genelec 8361A 3-way Coaxial Powered Studio Monitor​	Genelec 8351B 3-way Coaxial Powered Studio Monitor​	Genelec 8341A SAM 3-way Coaxial Powered Studio Monitor​	Genelec 8331 SAM 3-way Coaxial Powered Studio Monitor​	Genelec 8340A 6.5 inch Powered Studio Monitor​
Powered	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Power Configuration	Tri-amped	Tri-amped	Tri-amped	Tri-amped	Bi-amped
LF Driver Size	2 x 10"	2 x 8" woofer	2 x (6.6" x 3.5") concealed woofers	2 x (5.12" x 3.62") concealed woofers	6.5" woofer
MF Driver Size	1 x 5"	1 x 5"	1 x 3.5"	1 x 3.5"	-
HF Driver Size	1" Tweeter	1" Tweeter	1 x 0.75" Coaxial tweeter	1 x 0.75" Coaxial tweeter	1" tweeter
LF Driver Power Amp	500W	250W	250W	72W	150W
MF Driver Power Amp	150W	150W	150W	36W	-
HF Driver Power Amp	150W	150W	150W	36W	150W
Total Power	800W	550W	550W	144W	300W
Maximum Peak SPL	124 dB SPL	113 dB SPL	110 dB SPL @ 1m	104 dB SPL @ 1m	≥ 118 dB SPL @ 1m
Input Types	1 x XLR, 1 x XLR (AES/EBU)	1 x XLR, 1 x XLR (AES/EBU)	1 x XLR (analog in), 1 x XLR (AES/EBU)	1 x XLR (analog, AES/EBU)	1 x XLR (analog), 1 x XLR (AES/EBU)
Output Types	1 x XLR (AES/EBU)	1 x XLR (AES/EBU)	1 x XLR (AES/EBU)	1 x XLR (AES/EBU)	1 x XLR Thru (AES/EBU)
Other I/O	2 x RJ45 (control network)	2 x RJ45 (control network)	2 x RJ45 (GLM network)	2 x RJ45 (GLM network)	2 x RJ-45
Features	DIP switches	DIP switches	DIP switches (standalone EQ set up)	DIP switches (standalone EQ set up)	-
Enclosure Type	Rear Ported	Rear Ported	Ported	Ported	Rear Ported
Enclosure Material	Die-cast Aluminum	Die-cast Aluminum	-	-	Minimum Diffraction Enclosure (MDE)
Height	23.37"	17.75"	13.8", 14.5" (with stand)	11.25", 12" (with stand)	13.81"
Width	14"	11.33"	9.37"	7.5"	9.37"
Depth	13.625"	11"	9.5"	8.37"	8.81"
Weight	70 lbs.	31 lbs.	22 lbs.	15 lbs.	18.5 lbs.

 

[Trell]

What I find crazy is how much more the 61 weighs more than it's predecessors.​

	Genelec 8361A 3-way Coaxial Powered Studio Monitor​	Genelec 8351B 3-way Coaxial Powered Studio Monitor​	Genelec 8341A SAM 3-way Coaxial Powered Studio Monitor​	Genelec 8331 SAM 3-way Coaxial Powered Studio Monitor​	Genelec 8340A 6.5 inch Powered Studio Monitor​
Powered	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Power Configuration	Tri-amped	Tri-amped	Tri-amped	Tri-amped	Bi-amped
LF Driver Size	2 x 10"	2 x 8" woofer	2 x (6.6" x 3.5") concealed woofers	2 x (5.12" x 3.62") concealed woofers	6.5" woofer
MF Driver Size	1 x 5"	1 x 5"	1 x 3.5"	1 x 3.5"	-
HF Driver Size	1" Tweeter	1" Tweeter	1 x 0.75" Coaxial tweeter	1 x 0.75" Coaxial tweeter	1" tweeter
LF Driver Power Amp	500W	250W	250W	72W	150W
MF Driver Power Amp	150W	150W	150W	36W	-
HF Driver Power Amp	150W	150W	150W	36W	150W
Total Power	800W	550W	550W	144W	300W
Maximum Peak SPL	124 dB SPL	113 dB SPL	110 dB SPL @ 1m	104 dB SPL @ 1m	≥ 118 dB SPL @ 1m
Input Types	1 x XLR, 1 x XLR (AES/EBU)	1 x XLR, 1 x XLR (AES/EBU)	1 x XLR (analog in), 1 x XLR (AES/EBU)	1 x XLR (analog, AES/EBU)	1 x XLR (analog), 1 x XLR (AES/EBU)
Output Types	1 x XLR (AES/EBU)	1 x XLR (AES/EBU)	1 x XLR (AES/EBU)	1 x XLR (AES/EBU)	1 x XLR Thru (AES/EBU)
Other I/O	2 x RJ45 (control network)	2 x RJ45 (control network)	2 x RJ45 (GLM network)	2 x RJ45 (GLM network)	2 x RJ-45
Features	DIP switches	DIP switches	DIP switches (standalone EQ set up)	DIP switches (standalone EQ set up)	-
Enclosure Type	Rear Ported	Rear Ported	Ported	Ported	Rear Ported
Enclosure Material	Die-cast Aluminum	Die-cast Aluminum	-	-	Minimum Diffraction Enclosure (MDE)
Height	23.37"	17.75"	13.8", 14.5" (with stand)	11.25", 12" (with stand)	13.81"
Width	14"	11.33"	9.37"	7.5"	9.37"
Depth	13.625"	11"	9.5"	8.37"	8.81"
Weight	70 lbs.	31 lbs.	22 lbs.	15 lbs.	18.5 lbs.

The "Maximum Peak SPL" for the 8361A and 8340A in the table is for a pair of them while the two others are for a single.

Genelecs gives three types of SPL as seen by 8351A:

Edit: Fixed typo.

 

[samysound]

I wish I never had a degree in English...

I think you have to give them a little bit of leeway here. "acoustically concealed woofer" does have a nice marketing vibe to it.

 

[Pearljam5000]

The "Maximum Peak SPL" for the 8361A and 8361A in the table is for a pair of them while the two others are for a single.

Genelecs gives three types of SPL as seen by 8351A:

View attachment 166218

How loud realistically is the 8361 without subs?
You can sit 3 meteres from it with bass heavy EDM and the limiter won't be activated?

 

[Trell]

How loud realistically is the 8361 without subs?
You can sit 3 meteres from it with bass heavy EDM and the limiter won't be activated?

Perhaps I should buy a pair and find out.