Genelec 8361A Review (Powered Monitor)

[Pearljam5000]

Perhaps I should buy a pair and find out.

Waiting for your impressions when you get them

 

[richard12511]

Maybe yes, maybe no. Sure it's a Genelec vs a JBL but not the ones in question. What I would love to see is a blind shootout of the 708p with EQ and 8361 at about 3 meters in a big room where the dynamics come into play. Now the Genelec would probably win, but by how much? There was a recent binaural recording thread around here where the second place speaker, a simple 2 way design, came in a strong second.

Better is easy to quantify, but good enough isn't. After all, $6k isn't chump change. Of course I could blow that on travel in a hurry.

I don't have the 8361, but I do have 8351 and 708p, and I spent a few weeks comparing them side by side.

With the way I use them(with subs), both are limitless at my listening distance(~3.5m). I've been over 110dB with both without seeing the clip lights. Both sound amazing, but the Genelec has a clearer, tighter, and more stable image. I also slightly prefer the tone of the Genelec, but I do pull the response of both down by 1dB above 10kHz.

Run full range, the JBL gets louder(114dB vs 113dB), and the Genelec digs deeper(32Hz vs 41Hz). Run full range, the Genelec does sound a bit better, due to the more full range sound, but the 708p's extra output is also greatly appreciated under certain circumstances. They're actually very similar in size, with similar amounts of woofage.

I would expect the 8361 to be the same as the 8351 but with slightly more extension and 5db more output.

 

[richard12511]

What I find crazy is how much more the 61 weighs more than it's predecessors.​

	Genelec 8361A 3-way Coaxial Powered Studio Monitor​	Genelec 8351B 3-way Coaxial Powered Studio Monitor​	Genelec 8341A SAM 3-way Coaxial Powered Studio Monitor​	Genelec 8331 SAM 3-way Coaxial Powered Studio Monitor​	Genelec 8340A 6.5 inch Powered Studio Monitor​
Powered	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Power Configuration	Tri-amped	Tri-amped	Tri-amped	Tri-amped	Bi-amped
LF Driver Size	2 x 10"	2 x 8" woofer	2 x (6.6" x 3.5") concealed woofers	2 x (5.12" x 3.62") concealed woofers	6.5" woofer
MF Driver Size	1 x 5"	1 x 5"	1 x 3.5"	1 x 3.5"	-
HF Driver Size	1" Tweeter	1" Tweeter	1 x 0.75" Coaxial tweeter	1 x 0.75" Coaxial tweeter	1" tweeter
LF Driver Power Amp	500W	250W	250W	72W	150W
MF Driver Power Amp	150W	150W	150W	36W	-
HF Driver Power Amp	150W	150W	150W	36W	150W
Total Power	800W	550W	550W	144W	300W
Maximum Peak SPL	124 dB SPL	113 dB SPL	110 dB SPL @ 1m	104 dB SPL @ 1m	≥ 118 dB SPL @ 1m
Input Types	1 x XLR, 1 x XLR (AES/EBU)	1 x XLR, 1 x XLR (AES/EBU)	1 x XLR (analog in), 1 x XLR (AES/EBU)	1 x XLR (analog, AES/EBU)	1 x XLR (analog), 1 x XLR (AES/EBU)
Output Types	1 x XLR (AES/EBU)	1 x XLR (AES/EBU)	1 x XLR (AES/EBU)	1 x XLR (AES/EBU)	1 x XLR Thru (AES/EBU)
Other I/O	2 x RJ45 (control network)	2 x RJ45 (control network)	2 x RJ45 (GLM network)	2 x RJ45 (GLM network)	2 x RJ-45
Features	DIP switches	DIP switches	DIP switches (standalone EQ set up)	DIP switches (standalone EQ set up)	-
Enclosure Type	Rear Ported	Rear Ported	Ported	Ported	Rear Ported
Enclosure Material	Die-cast Aluminum	Die-cast Aluminum	-	-	Minimum Diffraction Enclosure (MDE)
Height	23.37"	17.75"	13.8", 14.5" (with stand)	11.25", 12" (with stand)	13.81"
Width	14"	11.33"	9.37"	7.5"	9.37"
Depth	13.625"	11"	9.5"	8.37"	8.81"
Weight	70 lbs.	31 lbs.	22 lbs.	15 lbs.	18.5 lbs.

Also, the 11dB output jump over the 8351 is super nice. I had no idea it was that huge. The 8351 only has a 3dB edge over the 8341. Percentage wise, the price jump from 8351 to 8361 is actually smaller.

 

[Sancus]

Also, the 11dB output jump over the 8351 is super nice. I had no idea it was that huge.

That's because it isn't. The chart is using different specs for different speakers as mentioned. The 8361A gets 5dB louder than the 8351B, 6dB if you count only the low bass(<100hz) alone. 124dB is maximum ignoring the woofer (probably 1khz) and with 2 speakers.

How loud realistically is the 8361 without subs?
You can sit 3 meteres from it with bass heavy EDM and the limiter won't be activated?

Already been discussed, ad nauseum honestly... lol...

The answer is yes. But it depends on material. No speaker with common multi 6/8" woofer designs is ever going to be able to handle super deep(eg 20-30hz) and loud bass, which COULD be in an EDM song, but is uncommon. To get really loud(like >105dB) at 20hz you need a 15-18" ported sub or 4 smaller ones. The average 12" sealed sub will only do about 95dB @ 2m in half-space at 20hz, or 101dB with an additional boundary. And that's already more than most speakers.

And yes, you can put bass this loud in material no problem, if you want to. 110dB at 20hz is only as loud as 60dB at 1khz. Even at 30hz it's still only 80dB, not uncomfortable at all. But this is part of the reason some of us believe a real SOTA audio system must have subs.

 

[Holmz]

From the article. Emphasis is mine.



In English the word conceal means to prevent something from being seen or known about. Call it pedantic or as the moderator thinks I am arguing unnecessarily but proper use of language is the only way humans can communicate. Otherwise why are we in a forum?

You forgot the Dog Whistles…

 

[pozz]

@Sancus @richard12511

Reasonably sure I did this correctly.

Genelec 8361A – 3-Wege-Studiomonitor mit voll-koaxialer Treiberanordnung im Test

So gar nicht bescheiden beschreibt man bei Genelec das neue Modell 8361A mit folgenden Worten: »The 8361A offers the most advanced acoustic performance of any studio monitor on the planet.« Ob das nicht doch etwas hoch gegriffen ist, sei einmal dahingestellt. Die 8361A ist auf jeden Fall der...

www.soundandrecording.de

Studiomonitor Genelec 8351A im Test

Der finnische Hersteller Genelec gehört seit Jahrzehnten zu den renommiertesten und auch größten Herstellern von Studiomonitoren aller Größenklassen. 1978 gegründet von Ilpo Martikainen und Topi Partanen, befindet man sich auch heute noch mit der kompletten Entwicklung und Produktion am...

www.soundandrecording.de

Main differences for max SPL are in the woofer range, as expected.

 

[oversky]

8361A on the W371

Isn't it going to be a 2-way system, and lost benefits of coaxial design, like smooth vertical directivity?

 

[samysound]

@Sancus @richard12511

Reasonably sure I did this correctly.
View attachment 166235

Genelec 8361A – 3-Wege-Studiomonitor mit voll-koaxialer Treiberanordnung im Test

So gar nicht bescheiden beschreibt man bei Genelec das neue Modell 8361A mit folgenden Worten: »The 8361A offers the most advanced acoustic performance of any studio monitor on the planet.« Ob das nicht doch etwas hoch gegriffen ist, sei einmal dahingestellt. Die 8361A ist auf jeden Fall der...

www.soundandrecording.de

Studiomonitor Genelec 8351A im Test

Der finnische Hersteller Genelec gehört seit Jahrzehnten zu den renommiertesten und auch größten Herstellern von Studiomonitoren aller Größenklassen. 1978 gegründet von Ilpo Martikainen und Topi Partanen, befindet man sich auch heute noch mit der kompletten Entwicklung und Produktion am...

www.soundandrecording.de

Main differences for max SPL are in the woofer range, as expected.

Hi, looks like this data is for the 8351A. I believe the 8351B has all revised drivers, different mid to low cross over freq and higher power amplification. I would guess the 8351B can do higher SPL compared to the 8351A

 

[richard12511]

Isn't it going to be a 2-way system, and lost benefits of coaxial design, like smooth vertical directivity?

Depends on what mode you choose. In complimentary mode, it actually becomes a 5-way system. In any of the directive modes, it becomes a 4-way system.

 

[TurtlePaul]

Isn't it going to be a 2-way system, and lost benefits of coaxial design, like smooth vertical directivity?

Doesn't really matter. Coaxial alignment matters for tweeter crossovers in the 2 Khz range where the wavelength is six inches, so drivers being a few inches apart causes phase alignment destructive interference off axis. Being 45 degrees above or below axis can put the drivers 180 degrees out of phase at the crossover frequency. This is where coaxial shines because no matter how far off axis you go and whether it be up and down or side to size, the centers of the tweeter and the mid will always be the same distance away.

Below 100 Hz, the wavelengths are longer than 10 feet, so the drivers being a few feet apart is still less than a quarter wavelength.

Also, from a 'point source' perspective, you will never be able to localize a tone less than 100 Hz for the same reason - the wavelength is too long. Therefore you won't notice the lower center of the sound field in the bass.

 

[pozz]

Hi, looks like this data is for the 8351A. I believe the 8351B has all revised drivers, different mid to low cross over freq and higher power amplification. I would guess the 8351B can do higher SPL compared to the 8351A

Good point. How much more is not clear though.

8351A - Genelec.com

A revolution in three-way monitor design, the 8351 boasts a unique look, a compact size and a performance that has to be heard to be believed.

www.genelec.com

8351B SAM™ Studio Monitor - Genelec.com

A revolution in three-way monitor design, the 8351B boasts a unique look, compact size and a performance that has to be heard to be believed.

www.genelec.com

 

[Sancus]

Main differences for max SPL are in the woofer range, as expected.

Unfortunately the 8351B is too changed for the 8351A data to be of much use in critical areas, especially below 100hz where they've likely made significant improvements, and of course the crossover is now 320hz so the 8351B should match the 8361A from there.

 

[Pearljam5000]

That's a bold statement

 

[oversky]

Doesn't really matter. Coaxial alignment matters for tweeter crossovers in the 2 Khz range where the wavelength is six inches, so drivers being a few inches apart causes phase alignment destructive interference off axis. Being 45 degrees above or below axis can put the drivers 180 degrees out of phase at the crossover frequency. This is where coaxial shines because no matter how far off axis you go and whether it be up and down or side to size, the centers of the tweeter and the mid will always be the same distance away.

Below 100 Hz, the wavelengths are longer than 10 feet, so the drivers being a few feet apart is still less than a quarter wavelength.

Also, from a 'point source' perspective, you will never be able to localize a tone less than 100 Hz for the same reason - the wavelength is too long. Therefore you won't notice the lower center of the sound field in the bass.

Well said.
I forgot what frequency range is important for directivity.
Thank you.

 

[hege]

Run full range, the JBL gets louder(114dB vs 113dB),

Comparing differently specified manufacturer values makes no sense. Peak, short term, blah.. useless for full range comparison anyway.

Play tracks like Beyoncé - Partition and Roddy Ricch - Peta and report back actual measured long term C/Z-weighted slow values. You probably won't even see 100dB(C/Z) at 3 meters before the speakers implode.

 

[richard12511]

Comparing differently specified manufacturer values makes no sense. Peak, short term, blah.. useless for full range comparison anyway.

Play tracks like Beyoncé - Partition and Roddy Ricch - Peta and report back actual measured long term C/Z-weighted slow values. You probably won't even see 100dB(C/Z) at 3 meters before the speakers implode.

Going just from memory. I'd say they both get a little above 100dB with modern pop/rock, but I can test again at some point. Neither got loud enough for me when run full range, which is why I recommend the use of subs for both. With subs in play, I've never seen clipping from either, and I've been above 110dB(well above reference level) at the listening position. Haven't tried pushing them much beyond that, since I listen mostly 85-95dB (c weighted average), but they may have a little more in them still.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I asked this guy about his 8361A and he also had the KH420 :

Though I have no idea what "inspiring" is in this context.

 

[ahofer]

Apart from acknowledging how fallible our subjective listening views are, we probably need to have more humility about how *large* a difference we hear, and how much/little difference it would make to our listening enjoyment in the long term.

At some point, I’m going to spill the money and put a pair of Revels or Genelecs or Dutch&Dutch in my living room next to my current setup and see what is revealed. Unless someone in NYC wants to volunteer to bring theirs over…for science!

 

[bennybbbx]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Genelc 8361A studio monitor (powered active speaker). It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $4,995.

The 8361A looks identical to the rest of the series except massively scaled up:
View attachment 164823

It doesn't look it but it is extremely heavy. It has a handle in the back but I could barely carry it a few steps using that before having to ask my wife for help. This is a 3-way speaker with coaxial mid and tweeter helped by dual woofers hidden behind the front massive waveguide/baffle.

Measurements that you are about to see were performed using the Klippel Near-field Scanner (NFS). This is a robotic measurement system that analyzes the speaker all around and is able (using advanced mathematics and dual scan) to subtract room reflections (so where I measure it doesn't matter). It also measures the speaker at close distance ("near-field") which sharply reduces the impact of room noise. Both of these factors enable testing in ordinary rooms yet results that can be more accurate than an anechoic chamber. In a nutshell, the measurements show the actual sound coming out of the speaker independent of the room.

Measurements are compliant with latest speaker research into what can predict the speaker preference and is standardized in CEA/CTA-2034 ANSI specifications. Likewise listening tests are performed per research that shows mono listening is much more revealing of differences between speakers than stereo or multichannel.

Reference axis was the center of coaxial driver (aligned by eye). Unit was factory reset and all dip switches were in off setting. It is getting colder with the measurement room temp at 16 degrees C.

Genele 8361A Measurements
Acoustic measurements can be grouped in a way that can be perceptually analyzed to determine how good a speaker is and how it can be used in a room. This so called spinorama shows us just about everything we need to know about the speaker with respect to tonality and some flaws:

View attachment 164824

What beautiful results! It almost doesn't get any better than this. The only minor nit is slightly lower bass output. I have seen this in another Genelec speaker. Company's measurements don't have this. So either it is slight measurement error due to lower temp, or level is set slightly too low by Genelec due to their measurements not showing the same.

Due to excellent directivity index, early window reflections are all similar to on-axis but slightly rolled off as they should be:

View attachment 164825

Put the two together and we get predicted far-field response of:

View attachment 164826

Perfection!

Notice how port/cabinet resonance is kept at extremely low level:
View attachment 164854

Drilling into beam width shows the same precision and attention to bot on and off axis response:

View attachment 164827

View attachment 164828

Notice how not only are the red portions of the graph smooth, but that the transition to white happens with very little chaos indicating lack of diffraction errors due to cabinet, driver edges, etc.

Same praise almost goes for vertical axis naturally:

View attachment 164829

Modelling the full 3-D sound field at three critical frequencies shows the near perfection of this speaker/driver:


View attachment 164830

Forward projection is so controlled and well formed.

As I was running the sweeps for distortion tests, i could detect the deep bass and super smooth response from low to high indicating absence of distortion:

View attachment 164831

Speaker simply doesn't feel the pressure of being asked to pump out this volume so I cranked it up another 10 dB:

View attachment 164832

Now the clipping indicator was blinking and as I have seen with other Genelecs, it aims to protect the tweeter by limiting its output. Listening through my hearing protection, I thought the sound was still fine.

Waterfall shows some resonances:

View attachment 164833

Impulse response is impressive in approximating the ideal:
View attachment 164834

Assuming Klippel has measured the latency correct, we are looking at almost 5 milliseconds.

Genelec 8361A Listening Tests
While many pros buy the Genelecs for near field listening, our membership here is mostly interested in far field so that is how I tested it (pictured above). The first impression is that of clarity with slightly light tonality. I did want to see if it could benefit from some bass boost per measurements though so dialed that in:


View attachment 164835

The increased bass performance was phenomenal. So much so that in some tracks my room mode at 105 Hz became a bit much so I dialed it down as you see. Once there, I was greeted with a level of clean and deep bass which I had never experienced with any other speaker I have tested. It was like having the most perfectly integrated subwoofer next to a very powerful and capable speaker. Dynamics knew no limit. Turn it up and it simply gets louder and louder with deep notes rocking the entire room!

With the bass boost the sound was so wonderful and fun that I did not want to stop to eat dinner and then type this review! No speaker I have tested come close to this level of performance. Yet I keep looking at a speaker that is less than half the height of my own speakers! You keep wondering where the incredible bass tones are coming from.

And it is not just the bass. Midrange and treble clarity was superb.

Conclusions
Do I honestly need to write this? That this is one of the most perfectly executed speakers both objectively and subjectively. No longer does a powered speaker have a limit in either deep bass or loudness. I was testing just a single one. I can just imagine a pair being able to bring the house down with perfect clarity and dynamics. $5,000 sounds like a lot of money but you are getting multiple levels of amplification and DACs for free plus in-built DSP, room EQ, etc., etc. Buy a pair for $10K and you are done with your journey as an audiophile.

It is my absolute pleasure to strongly recommend the Genelec 8361A. I killed my back (and that of my wife's) carrying it around to measure and listen to but it was all worth it. If you can afford it, run, don't walk to get them for your system!

Edit: video review also posted:

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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

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the impulse response look very good and fast as if it is from headphones. but the spectral decay below 2 khz look very slow in compare to other. maybe because they are so heavy the klippel begin during low freq measuring vibration of whole system and because measure signal is too fast in frequency increase the vibration stay on higer frequencies too. the spectral decay seem do with over 100 db. this is maybe too much.

How many seconds a measure sweep of the klippel need ?
and with how much db is the step response do ?

 

[Spocko]

Also, the 11dB output jump over the 8351 is super nice. I had no idea it was that huge. The 8351 only has a 3dB edge over the 8341. Percentage wise, the price jump from 8351 to 8361 is actually smaller.

At 70 lbs. per speaker, the 11dB jump suddenly makes sense too, since percentage wise, the weight jump from 31 lbs to 70 lbs is 125%