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Genelec 8351B Review (Studio Monitor)

BrokenEnglishGuy

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If actives are so good then why don't all audiophile(non pro) brands make all of their speakers active? It's weird
In my point of view the reasons are:

Already we have a lot of amplifiers in the world.



Is very problematic send a heavy speaker to the manufacturer in case of a problem, if international, worse.



Software/tools like Rew are doing a awesome job making better these already existent passive speakers
 

Scgorg

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If actives are so good then why don't all audiophile(non pro) brands make all of their speakers active? It's weird
This is a flawed idea for the reason that it assumes all brands are after ultimate performance, and also assumes all brands have the same idea of what "ultimate performance" is. Don't forget that you can buy single-driver speakers for 6-digit sums of money. In this forum you'd be hard pressed to find anyone considering that optimal, but around the web there are plenty of people who swear by e.g. Voxativ.
Additionally, it adds more complexity to design in the R&D phase, someone who can design a good speaker (including a passive crossover) can't necessarily design a good amplifier/DAC/DSP to go with it.

And the primary reason, I suspect, is that many audiophiles want to mix and match, and won't buy products that bind them to a certain DAC, amp and digital ecosystem. Repairability and potentially lifetime of the product for the end user is also much better with passive speakers.
 

Gene LeClair

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If actives are so good then why don't all audiophile(non pro) brands make all of their speakers active? It's weird
Why don't all watch manufacturers just make smart watches, or all car manufacturers make electric cars?

Mostly because they just don't have skills and necessary technology to do that. Most of them would face fierce competition from companies that are ahead of them (like Neumann and Genelec) and couldn't compete. So instead they focus on different market segments where they have good expertise.
 

LTig

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Additionally, it adds more complexity to design in the R&D phase, someone who can design a good speaker (including a passive crossover) can't necessarily design a good amplifier/DAC/DSP to go with it.
This! It changes now with the upcoming of ready to use class D power amplfier modules. An analog x-over is not that difficult to design, and adding DSP is possible due to easy to program small computer modules like the Raspberry Pi with attached DACs. You still need expertise in DSP per se of course.
 

Spocko

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Genelec themselves disagrees with you.

I guess with GLM making the necessary corrections it doesn't matter - but I'm wondering how much of that placement is simply because the non-parallel walls on all sides permits flexibility of sub placement? Generally, in quadrilateral rooms, having all subs on one wall is not recommended, but then that's what GLM is there for!
 

sarumbear

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I guess with GLM making the necessary corrections it doesn't matter - but I'm wondering how much of that placement is simply because the non-parallel walls on all sides permits flexibility of sub placement? Generally, in quadrilateral rooms, having all subs on one wall is not recommended, but then that's what GLM is there for!
GLM is just an EQ. There are various other EQ systems available for systems and subwoofers. Just EQ your system to balance out your room modes instead of worrying subwoofer placement.
 

Spocko

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GLM is just an EQ. There are various other EQ systems available for systems and subwoofers. Just EQ your system to balance out your room modes instead of worrying subwoofer placement.
My only concern are the deep nulls of room modes which EQ cannot properly address, and only by moving the subwoofer can I shift that null elsewhere in the room, away from my MLP - I may end up introducing a peak to my MLP but that's much preferable to EQ.
 

sarumbear

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My only concern are the deep nulls of room modes which EQ cannot properly address, and only by moving the subwoofer can I shift that null elsewhere in the room, away from my MLP - I may end up introducing a peak to my MLP but that's much preferable to EQ.
Isn't MLP an EQ? You can create any type of FR via an EQ, including very narrow (high Q) peaks and dips.
 

LTig

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You can create any type of FR via an EQ, including very narrow (high Q) peaks and dips.
A deep dip in a room FR is the result of cancelling waves and cannot be corrected by EQ, since both waves (the direct and the reflected) get louder and still cancel each other out.
 

Sancus

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A deep dip in a room FR is the result of cancelling waves and cannot be corrected by EQ, since both waves (the direct and the reflected) get louder and still cancel each other out.

Right, and that's why multiple subs help this problem. If your subs have nulls in different places, then EQ on the unaffected one can correct a null on the affected one.
 

sarumbear

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A deep dip in a room FR is the result of cancelling waves and cannot be corrected by EQ, since both waves (the direct and the reflected) get louder and still cancel each other out.
How does MLP solves that problem?
 

sarumbear

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Because the frequency response is both speaker and listening position dependent.
Thank you but my question was "how" does MLP correct the null(s) caused by standing waves?
 

sarumbear

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No idea, ask them.
but you have first hand experience that MLP eliminated a FR null whereas an EQ couldn't?
 

abdo123

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Thank you but my question was "how" does MLP correct the null(s) caused by standing waves?

Well usually room modes in domestic settings are not equally powerful/impactful on frequency response, so you can choose to sit somewhere where the most misbehaving mode is not ‘active’

For example if the height room mode is the most problematic for you, you can raise the seats a bit so you’re closer to the midpoint (between the ceiling and the floor) where the mode will be least influential.
 

sarumbear

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I thought MLP meant Main Listening Position?
I didn't know that and I thought it is a different type of room correction system. :facepalm:
 

Spocko

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A deep dip in a room FR is the result of cancelling waves and cannot be corrected by EQ, since both waves (the direct and the reflected) get louder and still cancel each other out.
This is exactly what I was describing - deep nulls from cancellation. Moving the sub around the room (or your MLP) will shift that null away from the MLP and at worse may move a peak to the MLP (which can be mitigated with EQ).
 
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