Genelec 8351B Review (Studio Monitor)

[Descartes]

So far i always thought that speakers are not that good at low wolumes in comparison to headphones.
Not these! I was listening couple of nights in a row those at low wolumes and they still sounded super good. Guess this is effect of low distortion...
Bless Amir and other good folks here cause otherwhise if there was no ASR i would have wasted my money on Susvara and speakers with "exotic drivers" ,but no real enginering.

P.S movies sound leaps and bounds better on coaxial speakers when listening at close distance. 2 way, 3 way speakers imaging is not good at close distance except for very small speakers.
On these you can tell people talking meter away, birds chirping 20 meters away, kids playing 30 meters away. On my previous Edifier S3000Pro even at 1.5 meter listening distance there was no depth, everything happened at couple of meters away.
For home cinema this doesnt matter, but for nearfield coaxials suprised me a lot. When i first heard about it i thought its a scam... Now i will only get coaxial speakers.

Welcome to the club of coaxial speakers! Tannoy KEF and Genelec

 

[Pearljam5000]

Welcome to the club of coaxial speakers! Tannoy KEF and Genelec

Are all coaxials created equally ?
Also you forgot to mention Geithain

 

[RobL]

Are all coaxials created equally ?
Also you forgot to mention Geithain

Tannoy doesn’t belong in that group.

 

[Descartes]

Are all coaxials created equally ?
Also you forgot to mention Geithain

I think not’

 

[Descartes]

Tannoy doesn’t belong in that group.

Why is that? Tannoy invented Dual Concentric Drivers!

Coaxial loudspeaker - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Sancus]

Why is that? Tannoy invented Dual Concentric Drivers!

Coaxial loudspeaker - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It's because Tannoys all measure poorly and don't seem to have improved much since they invented them, they certainly haven't solved the problems that Kef has let alone Genelec.

 

[Ilkka Rissanen]

From what I understand they did it on purpose so you could distinguish between 8351 and 8361 in photos just by looking at the LED

No, that is not true. Here is the real story behind the 8351 offset LED.

Back when we were developing the original 8351A, we were debating which is the "default" orientation for the speaker which would be indicated by the orientation and placement of the GENELEC logo along with the LED. During the time the moulds for the cabinet halves were made, we strongly believed that the horizontal orientation would be the default one and the logo was placed below the coaxial driver with the LED sitting right next to it, making them a harmonic looking pair. Later on, after many discussions between the R&D team and our industrial designer, Harri Koskinen, we came up to the conclusion that the default orientation would be the vertical one instead. But now the logo and LED were placed wrong!

Changing the placement of the logo was easy and not too expensive because it is just embossed on the surface. The LED however, requires a through-hole with three wires running to it from the electronics PCB located inside the cabinet. Every aluminium cabinet 8000/6000/4000 series (except for the very first 6040A and the later 6040R) model has had the LED placed through the front panel of the cabinet, making it easy to install and seal against air leaks. Due to the construction of the 8351 cabinet, the lips/covers on top of the woofer drivers are quite thin and were not designed to house the LED. The racetrack woofer sits right behind the lip so there is no room to fit the LED or run the wires to it without causing other issues. Now we were facing a dilemma. Should we redesign the front half of the cabinet so that the LED could be placed next to the logo, causing further expenses and delays for the project, or just accept the fact that the logo and the LED would be placed far away from each other and go forward with the already many times delayed product launch. You know which option we chose.

Remember that back in 2013/2014, we (honestly) had no idea that the 8351A would become so successful or that we would be later on making three more siblings for it. We did not even coin the name "The Ones" until in 2017. So, fast forward to the time we had the first drawings made for the 8331A and 8341A, we were again facing the same logo and LED dilemma. Should we now relocate the LED next to the logo or should we continue with the same 8351A style for a uniform family look. Again, you know which option we chose. Later on with the 8361A, we did not even have the discussion anymore, the choice was obvious. However, for these three models we decided to move the LED position slightly upwards, to the vertical centerline of the cabinet, for a more symmetrical appearance.

Now, someone might ask that why did not we do the same change for the 8351B. The reason is that since 8351A and B revisions are sharing the exact same front cabinet half, as well as of course the mould to make ones, and we did not want to have any production/delivery gap between the revisions, we had to keep the front half design exactly the same - with the offset LED placement. Having another mould made just to have the LED position changed, which by the way are awfully expensive in this size, was simply not justified. The end.

 

[Descartes]

No, that is not true. Here is the real story behind the 8351 offset LED.

Back when we were developing the original 8351A, we were debating which is the "default" orientation for the speaker which would be indicated by the orientation and placement of the GENELEC logo along with the LED. During the time the moulds for the cabinet halves were made, we strongly believed that the horizontal orientation would be the default one and the logo was placed below the coaxial driver with the LED sitting right next to it, making them a harmonic looking pair. Later on, after many discussions between the R&D team and our industrial designer, Harri Koskinen, we came up to the conclusion that the default orientation would be the vertical one instead. But now the logo and LED were placed wrong!

Changing the placement of the logo was easy and not too expensive because it is just embossed on the surface. The LED however, requires a through-hole with three wires running to it from the electronics PCB located inside the cabinet. Every aluminium cabinet 8000/6000/4000 series (except for the very first 6040A and the later 6040R) model has had the LED placed through the front panel of the cabinet, making it easy to install and seal against air leaks. Due to the construction of the 8351 cabinet, the lips/covers on top of the woofer drivers are quite thin and were not designed to house the LED. The racetrack woofer sits right behind the lip so there is no room to fit the LED or run the wires to it without causing other issues. Now we were facing a dilemma. Should we redesign the front half of the cabinet so that the LED could be placed next to the logo, causing further expenses and delays for the project, or just accept the fact that the logo and the LED would be placed far away from each other and go forward with the already many times delayed product launch. You know which option we chose.

Remember that back in 2013/2014, we (honestly) had no idea that the 8351A would become so successful or that we would be later on making three more siblings for it. We did not even coin the name "The Ones" until in 2017. So, fast forward to the time we had the first drawings made for the 8331A and 8341A, we were again facing the same logo and LED dilemma. Should we now relocate the LED next to the logo or should we continue with the same 8351A style for a uniform family look. Again, you know which option we chose. Later on with the 8361A, we did not even have the discussion anymore, the choice was obvious. However, for these three models we decided to move the LED position slightly upwards, to the vertical centerline of the cabinet, for a more symmetrical appearance.

Now, someone might ask that why did not we do the same change for the 8351B. The reason is that since 8351A and B revisions are sharing the exact same front cabinet half, as well as of course the mould to make ones, and we did not want to have any production/delivery gap between the revisions, we had to keep the front half design exactly the same - with the offset LED placement. Having another mould made just to have the LED position changed, which by the way are awfully expensive in this size, was simply not justified. The end.

Thank you so much for such a great explanation.

 

[Tisca]

No, it's just about SPL. 8361 plays down to 30 Hz, 8351B reaches 32 Hz. Absolutely similar. ;-)

My 61s measured 26 Hz at -6dB last calibration I did. Room treatment under way.

 

[Descartes]

My 61s measured 26 Hz at -6dB last calibration I did. Room treatment under way.

Cool but I have four subwoofers so I don’t need them, I would rather have the 8351B

 

[Arnas]

My 61s measured 26 Hz at -6dB last calibration I did. Room treatment under way.

Your room is no anechoic chamber so i dont understand what is your point?

 

[Arnas]

So im listening these about 3 weeks with glm (10 days no glm)...
First thoughts with Glm: Even better imaging and spaciousness, bit too neutral, analytical, need some bass boost and reduction in mids. Less engaging to listen, but perfect for mixing i imagine.

After 2 days most negatives disappeared... I think my brain adjusted to accurate sound profile and i dont hear bass deficiencies anymore.
Now sound is so balanced and tirefree that i could listen for hours. Dynamic range is incredible, could listen at 65db average and it still sounds dynamic! Vocals are soooo crystal clear.

Eq could be needed for pleasure listening for SOME bright recordings, for edm, for rap, rock, metal genres. Even GlM corrected these speakers dont lack bass in my room in my opinion, but some recording need coloration from all speakers i believe.
2,3db bass increase across the board, 1,2 db increase in lower mids and 2 to 3db reduction in presence range would solve the problems with recording that need more warmth in those genres.

Final thoughts: Positives
Sound is great and goes to incredible heights with GLM!
With no glm bass is strong enough to cover movies in a small room!
Imaging so good you can listen these laying in the bad and you wont get massive downgrade in sound quality
Incredible Dynamic range and low distorion
Built like Absolute tanks and have nice feets so you dont need to scratch your head witch stands to buy.
Negatives:
Price
Paint job could be a tiny bit better! Its studio speakers and not perfect paintjob only noticable when handling those and never when they are standing still, but My Topping dx9 have noticably better paint job so i have to point that out.

 

[exponent_of_sock]

Can anyone provide resources or reading material demonstrating the tangible/measurable benefits of adding subwoofers, especially as relates to the 8351Bs and what adding a pair of 7360s would do in terms of taking the load off of the bass, mids, and highs? Obviously the sub-bass below 32Hz would be improved and they might help to smooth out the frequency response in the 60-120 Hz range, but what about the rest of the music? I've heard it said that subwoofers help the monitors work less, but I'd like to better understand exactly what it means as pertains to 8351Bs specifically. My room is relatively small. I've thought about 7370s, but I don't think they'd fit well in the room, and I don't ever get anywhere near 109db peak SPL. Thanks!

 

[LTig]

Can anyone provide resources or reading material demonstrating the tangible/measurable benefits of adding subwoofers, especially as relates to the 8351Bs and what adding a pair of 7360s would do in terms of taking the load off of the bass, mids, and highs? Obviously the sub-bass below 32Hz would be improved and they might help to smooth out the frequency response in the 60-120 Hz range, but what about the rest of the music? I've heard it said that subwoofers help the monitors work less, but I'd like to better understand exactly what it means as pertains to 8351Bs specifically.

Adding a sub properly (high passed satellites) reduces the amplitude of the signal going to the woofer of the satellite speakers. With reduced excursion the sat woofer shows less IMD which leads to better sound quality within the frequency range of the woofer. This is true for all X.1 systems.

In your case the 8351b won't play signals below 80 Hz.

My room is relatively small. I've thought about 7370s, but I don't think they'd fit well in the room, and I don't ever get anywhere near 109db peak SPL. Thanks!

I own K&HO 300D which are with respect to max SPL comparable to Genelec 8x5x. I use them with a single 7060b after consulting the Genelec support. They said that for 5.1 systems or highest possible SPL in 2.1 systems the 7070 would be the correct choice but for my home application the 7060b might be sufficient. And they were right.

 

[Arnas]

Can anyone provide resources or reading material demonstrating the tangible/measurable benefits of adding subwoofers, especially as relates to the 8351Bs and what adding a pair of 7360s would do in terms of taking the load off of the bass, mids, and highs? Obviously the sub-bass below 32Hz would be improved and they might help to smooth out the frequency response in the 60-120 Hz range, but what about the rest of the music? I've heard it said that subwoofers help the monitors work less, but I'd like to better understand exactly what it means as pertains to 8351Bs specifically. My room is relatively small. I've thought about 7370s, but I don't think they'd fit well in the room, and I don't ever get anywhere near 109db peak SPL. Thanks!

There is not tell if sub gonna help in your room... You have to test speakers response in your room and then sub.
If you have dont have much free space to position sub freely there might no benefits at all.
Genelec guy said it to me when i asked.

Talking about 7370. I think you need a lot of space to freely position them.

 

[tmtomh]

Here's a question, in case anyone has an answer before I contact Genelec support: does anyone know if the DACs inside these speakers have built-in headroom for intersample overs?