Using measurements to choose between Genelec 8341A and 8351B

[MBertelsen]

I am torn between the 8341 and 8351 for hifi / home theater use. Would use either with subwoofers and at 3.5 m listening distance. The important factor for me is highest possible fidelity, so I am looking for low distortion. From the reviews on this site, it seems the distortion is higher on the 8351, can this be true or am I misinterpreting the measurements? The 8341 review has only at approximately 95 dB, where the 8351B review includes both 85 and 96 dB distortion.

I am seeing much lower and smoother group delay below 100 Hz on 8351B from the manufacturers measurements, this may be important for smooth integration with subwoofers, making me think this is the better choice for my use case. Will integrate subwoofers with Lyngdorf RoomPerfect.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Sokel]

3.5 m is a little over the optimum range of these monitors according to Genelec's suggestion:

 

[dfuller]

I am torn between the 8341 and 8351 for hifi / home theater use. Would use either with subwoofers and at 3.5 m listening distance. The important factor for me is highest possible fidelity, so I am looking for low distortion. From the reviews on this site, it seems the distortion is higher on the 8351, can this be true or am I misinterpreting the measurements? The 8341 review has only at approximately 95 dB, where the 8351B review includes both 85 and 96 dB distortion.

I am seeing much lower and smoother group delay below 100 Hz on 8351B from the manufacturers measurements, this may be important for smooth integration with subwoofers, making me think this is the better choice for my use case. Will integrate subwoofers with Lyngdorf RoomPerfect.

Thanks in advance!

The 8351B gets louder than the 8341A by quite a bit. That said, if you need volume I'd be looking instead at the 8361 or 1237.

 

[MBertelsen]

Thanks for the answers! In a normal living room I will not get sound dominated by direct sound at this distance, that’s okay with me, and even the 8341 provides plenty for the volume I listen at.

My question here is mainly about interpreting the measurements in the excellent reviews on this site, as it seems the bigger 8351 has more distortion than the 8341 at 96 dB. My main reason for considering the larger model was the increased size of the midrange and tweeter which I thought would lead to less distortion.

 

[dfuller]

My question here is mainly about interpreting the measurements in the excellent reviews on this site, as it seems the bigger 8351 has more distortion than the 8341 at 96 dB. My main reason for considering the larger model was the increased size of the midrange and tweeter which I thought would lead to less distortion.

The reason the 8341 looks like it has lower distortion is because the limiter kicks in. Genelecs are lots of things, and "aggressively limited" is one of them. The 8351 is also fairly SPL limited in LF. If you're crossing with a sub, no problem, but if you're running them full range expect some weirdness.

Both of them are very low distortion above LF until the limiters start kicking in.


Like I said - if you need volume at distance, you need 8361s, S360s, or 1237s. 3.5m away for a pair, for 86dB at LP in-room (which is moderately loud) you generally need about 90dB anechoic for one speaker. Given peaks can be 10+dB more than that, you need pretty beefy speakers - or at least a subwoofer.

 

[Sancus]

8341a is pretty SPL limited for HT at 3.5m, unless you listen at -15 to -20dB or something super quiet like that. Especially for the center.

Keep in mind you need minimum 20dB of headroom over whatever your normal listening level is.

 

[MBertelsen]

Sounds like I better go with the 8351B for other reasons than the distortion. I don’t believe either of the two models are having the limiter activated at 96 dB, their responses are both shown to be smooth. The 8331 review shows the limiter coming in above 100 dB. So still not entirely convinced that is what causes the apparent difference in the review measurements.

I like they limit themselves instead of damaging themselves, and that they clearly say that with their led light.

Will ensure to have enough headroom, thanks for the 20 dB measure, that was more than I had expected to be necessary.

 

[Sancus]

There isn't really sufficient data to even say that the 8341A has higher or lower distortion than any of the other models. We only have sweep at a substantially different SPL from the current standards. And Amir's distortion charts are already hard to compare because you have to subtract the fundamental at a particular frequency from the distortion to derive the meaningful value.

 

[MBertelsen]

Thanks for the reply! I have also given up on comparing measurements between reviewers unless they clearly specify a standard, and even then it’s uncertain. Here I thought that the speakers measured by the same reviewer, probably in the same room and with the same equipment could be directly compared.

Looking at the data again after your message I tried to compare the raw data instead of the THD %. I see there that the two speakers are very close in THD, it didn’t seem like the case at the % graphs.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Get the 8361

 

[Sokel]

If I understand correctly what you want,you should have a look at W371A,that would be your solution for such a distance while keeping the distortion low all the way from 300Hz.
But you have to place them together us their true merit is a much higher x-over.

 

[MBertelsen]

The 8361 is sadly too large visually, but certainly a mighty speaker.

I am looking at subwoofer options that allow high crossovers and have all the electronics to electronically cross over and time align manually. That’s part of the reason that the choice between 41 and 51 is more difficult, as one of the primary benefits of extension isn’t a concern.

 

[Purité Audio]

I would definitely try at home before purchase if at all possible, I had the 8351s here listening at a similar distance and they just felt too small, moving in to within two metres and there was envelopment further away and it felt as if you were looking at the sound if that makes any sense.
Keith

 

[MBertelsen]

I did get the chance to listen to the 8351B’s in my space, but due to some unfortunate events that came in the way, I didn’t get quite as much time to optimize and measure as I had hoped, and did not get to use subwoofers.

Using the GLM room calibration was not a sufficiently good result, could not get a sharp stereo image. Was a world of difference with RoomPerfect from Lyngdorf, and I think they are simply optimized for direct sound and room dominated sound respectively, so at my distance the latter was best.

I did learn they can do great things, but never really got them to sound as great as I had come to expect from all the reviews / experiences I read. I think partly it was placement on top of the flimsy woden boxes they were delivered in, and of course that they had to replicate full range which they are still not quite large enough to do alone. Never a problem with any limiting at even the loudest I wanted to listen for music / movies. I am confident that with the subwoofers and solid mounting, the 8351 would live up to my expectations, but still want to make sure I get the most for the significant amount of money.

My short list is down to 8341, 8351 and Vivid Audio Kaya S12. Thanks again for the advice given so far!

 

[EchoChamber]

I did get the chance to listen to the 8351B’s in my space, but due to some unfortunate events that came in the way, I didn’t get quite as much time to optimize and measure as I had hoped, and did not get to use subwoofers.

Using the GLM room calibration was not a sufficiently good result, could not get a sharp stereo image. Was a world of difference with RoomPerfect from Lyngdorf, and I think they are simply optimized for direct sound and room dominated sound respectively, so at my distance the latter was best.

I did learn they can do great things, but never really got them to sound as great as I had come to expect from all the reviews / experiences I read. I think partly it was placement on top of the flimsy woden boxes they were delivered in, and of course that they had to replicate full range which they are still not quite large enough to do alone. Never a problem with any limiting at even the loudest I wanted to listen for music / movies. I am confident that with the subwoofers and solid mounting, the 8351 would live up to my expectations, but still want to make sure I get the most for the significant amount of money.

My short list is down to 8341, 8351 and Vivid Audio Kaya S12. Thanks again for the advice given so far!

The Gens lows will benefit by being placed near the wall, and GLM will then reduce low frequency output quite a bit to compensate, keeping a fairly flat low end response without taxing the speakers. In my room, my 8351B without calibration sound disappointing, boomy and without focus, GLM is a must.

If you decide to go Genelec Ones, I’d definitely get a Genelec sub (or two) that can be calibrated together with the monitors in GLM. The W371A being the ultimate solution.

 

[widz]

First post, woop.

The smaller freestanding genelec really are designed to sit on the mixer meter bridge, or either side of a DAW. You choose the model that'll give you the low end extension & SPL for your use case. They'll clearly go further when high passed with bass management from a SAM sub.

I run 8341 at about 2.5m for my LCR+SR with the 7370 and it's enough. However they are wall mounted on slatted false wall with 400mm deep bass traps behind.

In a stereo environment they'd work well with a pair of subs, or if you're feeling flush W371

 

[MBertelsen]

Thanks for the additional replies! I owe a bit of an update. I do realize there are no big differences in clarity and distortion between the two models, unless pushed towards their limits.

I tried a set of 8351B with GLM calibration in several different rooms, against a similarly priced passive speaker, the vivid audio Kaya s12 also with room correction. When I say similarly priced, it’s without it amplification, which I just happen to already have and would sell to go active.

Without subwoofer the 8351B had the advantage in extension and perhaps a bit better with imaging. Though I rarely got moments of goosebumps. With the vivid that happened a lot more frequently. The two speakers measured very similarly, a bit lower distortion on the genelec. Same in room treble roll off. All comparisons were level matched.

I didn’t manage to pair a subwoofer with the 8351B, even though I did take the 7 ms delay into account. With a subwoofer paired well with the vivid, I simply preferred that speaker, though it was very close and ultimately more expensive (amplification + subwoofer in additional cost).

I will get the Kaya S12 as front for music and movies, and all the remaining speakers will probably be Genelec for a atmos setup. They did sound remarkably close, so think panning will work fine.

Thanks for all the help in this thread, it helped me wrap my mind around some important concepts!

 

[Pearljam5000]

Thanks for the additional replies! I owe a bit of an update. I do realize there are no big differences in clarity and distortion between the two models, unless pushed towards their limits.

I tried a set of 8351B with GLM calibration in several different rooms, against a similarly priced passive speaker, the vivid audio Kaya s12 also with room correction. When I say similarly priced, it’s without it amplification, which I just happen to already have and would sell to go active.

Without subwoofer the 8351B had the advantage in extension and perhaps a bit better with imaging. Though I rarely got moments of goosebumps. With the vivid that happened a lot more frequently. The two speakers measured very similarly, a bit lower distortion on the genelec. Same in room treble roll off. All comparisons were level matched.

I didn’t manage to pair a subwoofer with the 8351B, even though I did take the 7 ms delay into account. With a subwoofer paired well with the vivid, I simply preferred that speaker, though it was very close and ultimately more expensive (amplification + subwoofer in additional cost).

I will get the Kaya S12 as front for music and movies, and all the remaining speakers will probably be Genelec for a atmos setup. They did sound remarkably close, so think panning will work fine.

Thanks for all the help in this thread, it helped me wrap my mind around some important concepts!

$8K for a passive 4 inch speaker ?
I'd never pay that .
Anyways if I were you I'd try the 8361 before deciding

 

[MBertelsen]

$8K for a passive 4 inch speaker ?
I'd never pay that .
Anyways if I were you I'd try the 8361 before deciding

The 8361 is not an option due to the size, and I don’t expect the mids or highs to improve, which is where I think the major difference was.

I had also written off 4” models, I have heard a lot of speakers trying to find what I like best, and at the end of the day I will go for what makes the biggest emotional impact when I listen to music. Those small vivids did best in that regard, and will be paired with stereo subwoofers for the lows anyway. The vivids didn’t employ typical tricks such as elevated frequency response in some regions to give a certain impression, they measure remarkably flat above the 100 Hz mark. Really wish I had kippel data on them!

 

[Pearljam5000]

The 8361 is not an option due to the size, and I don’t expect the mids or highs to improve, which is where I think the major difference was.

I had also written off 4” models, I have heard a lot of speakers trying to find what I like best, and at the end of the day I will go for what makes the biggest emotional impact when I listen to music. Those small vivids did best in that regard, and will be paired with stereo subwoofers for the lows anyway. The vivids didn’t employ typical tricks such as elevated frequency response in some regions to give a certain impression, they measure remarkably flat above the 100 Hz mark. Really wish I had kippel data on them!

Did you try the Neumann KH120/150?