Furutech Flow Filters

[jomal]

Hello everyone!

First of all, sorry if this subject is not proper to this part of the forum.

I live in a 220V / 60Hz country and have a dedicated 4mm2 (˜11 AWG cabling) just for my audio system. The oscilloscope shows it has a THD ranging from 3-4 %and all equipments are directly connected to Furutech wall outlets: the valve monoblocs to a double GTX-D(R) NCF and the solid state preamp and the dac to a double FPX (G).

My question is: are the Furutech Flow filters (15 or 28) worth buying to connect my digital gear (dac and streamer), I need a power conditioning in order to have some real benefit or everything is just a kind of "snake oil" at all?

Thank you all in advance for all advices.

 

[Doodski]

The oscilloscope shows it has a THD ranging from 3-4 %

What oscilloscope are you using that it has THD metering capability?

or everything is just a kind of "snake oil"

Yes, you are being sold snake-oilZ.

 

[GXAlan]

To date, there has not been convincing evidence that power conditioning is able to do anything that translates into a measurable difference when using a precision audio analyzer on USA mains quality.

Lots of qualifications in that statement but basically invest in bigger/better speakers (clear return on investment) and invest in music/content that you enjoy.

 

[fpitas]

Sometimes, a line filter does help, in very noisy neighborhoods near heavy industry. Here's a real line filter: https://www.amazon.com/Suppressor-S...16-afa3-9d49fe88fe69&pd_rd_i=B073MCGBP5&psc=1

The Furutech filters I've seen don't appear to have enough room inside them for even such a basic filter. And, for $16 you can just put one in a box yourself.

 

[jomal]

What oscilloscope are you using that it has THD metering capability?

Yes, you are being sold snake-oilZ.

Hi, Doodski.

I have a PS Audio PowerPlant P15 power regenerator running in parallel and it measures some power line parameters, including THD.

 

[Doodski]

Hi, Doodski.

I have a PS Audio PowerPlant P15 power regenerator running in parallel and it measures some power line parameters, including THD.

Ahhh IC a P15 with display. If you want tighter fitting less resistive AC outlets I suggest looking into hospital grade outlets. They have heavy duty parts inside and cost much less than a Furtech.

 

[solderdude]

are the Furutech Flow filters (15 or 28) worth buying to connect my digital gear (dac and streamer), I need a power conditioning in order to have some real benefit or everything is just a kind of "snake oil" at all?

You can leave off the 'just a kind'.

'power conditioner' can mean a lot of things ranging from a simple filter to a regenerative one with or without batteries (your P15).
The battery backup one is handy when you have lots of brown-outs (short power interruptions) but usually do not have a 'nice' sine wave as output.
A regenerative conditioner may be useful for some equipment when you often have substantial drops in mains voltage or a voltage that sometimes peaks well over 240V.
The P15, however, is not a regenerative one, PS Audio just claims it is. What it does is it adds/subtracts something from the incoming mains so that the incoming sine wave is 'nice' again. A true regenerative one (the earlier PS Audio ones) actually created a new voltage from scratch and isolated from mains.
The current ones just 'fix' the incoming mains and does not 'regenerate'.
Filters can help when your system is plagued with 'pops' or 'ticks' caused by a fridge, washing machine, lights switching on/off etc. Otherwise pointless.
having the last few meters in a house with special thick mains wiring or shielded wiring is equally pointless. The last few meters of mains wire is not going to undo what happens before it.
Most of this stuff has far more influence on you psyche than any electrical benefit.

Seeing as you already have some of the expensive stuff.. just keep using it or sell it if you can get your money back from it.
Don't waste money on stuff like this.

some reading material:

PS Audio PowerPlant 12 Review (AC Regenerator)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the PS Audio PowerPlant 12 (P12) AC regenerator. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $5,499. PS Audio nails the industrial design of the unit. I really like the casework as well as the look of the various graphical meters as you see above...

www.audiosciencereview.com

or viewing:

PS Audio PowerPlant P12 Review (Video)

It has been a while since I had done a video for the channel. So I decided to do one on PS Audio P12 AC Regenerator because so many youtubers had asked for it in the past comments. Was very tired from dealing with flood clean up in our home late at night so please excuse the bit of slowness at...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[GXAlan]

@jomal, Amir’s line has been measured around 2% THD. So yours doesn’t seem that far off and you would think that at 220V, THD is higher.

You are already running the P15 so it is pretty easy to see if you can hear a difference. You will be biased to hear a difference so if you cannot hear a difference, you really know. That is, there are fewer false negatives than false positives.

At this point in time, what are your speakers/sources/equipment? For testing your line level gear, you could buy a E1DA Cosmos and use the free multitone software posted here and run your own tests with and without the P15. This is great because you will be able to convince yourself if you are the exception. If something is not audible, but it's genuinely measurable and within the scope of the threshold of audibility, you can have peace of mind it's not a complete waste of money. If you cannot measure and you cannot hear it...

Second, since you are running valve amplification, it means that you likely prefer euphonic coloration and the presence of noise may actually contribute. Some believe that the surface noise of vinyl is actually part of the appeal. No science on that. In that regard, you probably don't need to focus so much on electronic cleaning but actually reducing the noise floor in your room.

How well noise dampened is your room? Reducing noise from HVAC, having better sound sealing for your doors and upgrading windows to double or triple pane glass can lower the ambient noise floor which would be a benefit

 

[voodooless]

So it’s basically this:

In a box with a cable and connector. That thing is about $40, and even that is probably too expensive for what it is.

The rest is all nice markets gobbledygook talk.

What do you think this thing will do that the P15 does not?

 

[fpitas]

So it’s basically this:

View attachment 230997

In a box with a cable and connector. That thing is about $40, and even that is probably too expensive for what it is.

The rest is all nice markets gobbledygook talk.

What do you think this thing will do that the P15 does not?

Hey, at least they put a filter in there. I figured it was empty.

 

[DonR]

Most of the harmonic distortion will be caused by low-order harmonics below 5KHz. Line filters don't do their thing until at least 100KHz, even Furutech admits as much.

 

[jomal]

@jomal, Amir’s line has been measured around 2% THD. So yours doesn’t seem that far off and you would think that at 220V, THD is higher.

You are already running the P15 so it is pretty easy to see if you can hear a difference. You will be biased to hear a difference so if you cannot hear a difference, you really know. That is, there are fewer false negatives than false positives.

At this point in time, what are your speakers/sources/equipment? For testing your line level gear, you could buy a E1DA Cosmos and use the free multitone software posted here and run your own tests with and without the P15. This is great because you will be able to convince yourself if you are the exception. If something is not audible, but it's genuinely measurable and within the scope of the threshold of audibility, you can have peace of mind it's not a complete waste of money. If you cannot measure and you cannot hear it...

Second, since you are running valve amplification, it means that you likely prefer euphonic coloration and the presence of noise may actually contribute. Some believe that the surface noise of vinyl is actually part of the appeal. No science on that. In that regard, you probably don't need to focus so much on electronic cleaning but actually reducing the noise floor in your room.

How well noise dampened is your room? Reducing noise from HVAC, having better sound sealing for your doors and upgrading windows to double or triple pane glass can lower the ambient noise floor which would be a benefit

@GXAlan, now I have Audiopax monoblocs (M50) and preamp (L50), PS Audio Direcstream dac and Boenicke W8 speakers. And no, I don't listen to vinyl and any kind of noise during music reproduction.

Maybe I have not emphasized enough that I am more concerned with the deleterious effects of electricity over the digital gear, as I believe that for both the preamp and the amp these filters make very little or no contribution.

 

[jomal]

Sometimes, a line filter does help, in very noisy neighborhoods near heavy industry. Here's a real line filter: https://www.amazon.com/Suppressor-S...16-afa3-9d49fe88fe69&pd_rd_i=B073MCGBP5&psc=1

The Furutech filters I've seen don't appear to have enough room inside them for even such a basic filter. And, for $16 you can just put one in a box yourself.

Yeah! Maybe I could add it just before the wall socket.

 

[voodooless]

If you have the PS audio DAC, the quality of the electricity is the least of your problems:

Review and Measurements of PS Audio PerfectWave DirectStream DAC

This is a review and detailed measurements of the PS Audio PerfectWave DirectStream DAC. It is on kind loan from a member. The unit that I have has the network "bridge" streaming option and costs US $6,899. Without that option it costs US $5,999. The DS DAC is quite heft with a textured matt...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[jomal]

If you have the PS audio DAC, the quality of the electricity is the least of your problems:

Review and Measurements of PS Audio PerfectWave DirectStream DAC

This is a review and detailed measurements of the PS Audio PerfectWave DirectStream DAC. It is on kind loan from a member. The unit that I have has the network "bridge" streaming option and costs US $6,899. Without that option it costs US $5,999. The DS DAC is quite heft with a textured matt...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Yeah, I have already read this article.

 

[GXAlan]

If you have the PS audio DAC, the quality of the electricity is the least of your problems:

Or more accurately, the distortions introduced by the PS Audio DAC are pleasant to @jomal.

Knowing this, I think a good upgrade to the digital front end would be:

Marantz SA-10 Review (SACD Player & DAC)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Marantz SACD player and USB balanced DAC. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $7,499. The industrial design is good although usability is poor with super tiny fonts for various settings (e.g. filter number top left). Disc tray opens...

www.audiosciencereview.com

This has the advantage of having the "tuned by ear" mythos of Ken Ishiwata era Marantz and measurements that aren't in the horrible range.

 

[voodooless]

Or more accurately, the distortions introduced by the PS Audio DAC are pleasant to @jomal.

Clearly, there will be more from the zero feedback pre and power amps

So why strive for low THD power wall power?

 

[Speedskater]

If you examine the current wave form of the AC power into a big power amplifier, you will see that it resembles a square wave not a sine wave. The current pulse is almost all harmonic distortion.

 

[GXAlan]

Clearly, there will be more from the zero feedback pre and power amps

So why strive for low THD power wall power?

Exactly.

But investing money in soundproofing the room from external noise outside of the listening area would make whatever sound signature that exists in the equipment better. That's probably the one thing that the most subjective to the most objective audiophile can agree to?

[or maybe not. Maybe the air conditioner masks vinyl surface noise and having too quiet of a room lets you hear the surface noise more]

 

[Curvature]

This has the advantage of having the "tuned by ear" mythos of Ken Ishiwata era Marantz and measurements that aren't in the horrible range.

That's a very... technically ignorant comment. There's nothing in the CD player output than indicates tuning.