First Martin Logan Speaker?!?! Which one

[Nwickliff]

There are so many models I don't know where to start. I would like to try a cheaper model to hear what they sound like in my room. Is there a good inexpensive model to get an idea of the flavor of sound? I'll probably EQ and I'll be crossing to subs at 80hz so don't need one that can (don't think any can) produce bass below 80hz.

Where do I start?

Think I want to try a Magnapan LRS as well to see what they sound like. I have a pair of DIY 2-Way Open Baffle speakers right now. I love the way they sound but I'm always curious.

 

[Dismayed]

New or used? I assume that you want an electrostatic panel model. The smaller models are fine for smaller ensembles and chamber music. They will fall short if you want to hear a full orchestra.

Best Buy stocks the lower-priced models, and they have a 60-day return policy. So best to start there.

Used - you could go with an older model, such as the Aerius I or the SL 3. Audiogon.com usually has used models, but the speakers are large, so shipping isn't cheap.

 

[Nwickliff]

New or used? I assume that you want an electrostatic panel model. The smaller models are fine for smaller ensembles and chamber music. They will fall short if you want to hear a full orchestra.

Best Buy stocks the lower-priced models, and they have a 60-day return policy. So best to start there.

Used - you could go with an older model, such as the Aerius I or the SL 3. Audiogon.com usually has used models, but the speakers are large, so shipping isn't cheap.

Looking for used on craigslist. I see them used on there all the time. Do you still believe they wi fall short with a well-integrated/time-aligned subwoofer(s).

 

[NiagaraPete]

Welcome to ASR. No advice on the speakers other than to read and use the Review Index before you buy. Also try searching the forums for the models you’re thinking about.

 

[Dismayed]

Looking for used on craigslist. I see them used on there all the time. Do you still believe they wi fall short with a well-integrated/time-aligned subwoofer(s).

My first ML speakers were the Aerius back in 1993. I never added a sub, even though they only went down to about 40 Hz. So I really can’t offer guidance on adding a sub.

Stringed instruments sounded fantastic. I did play orchestral music and rock on them also, but at moderate volume. Nice speaker with some limitations.

 

[kongwee]

You could start with ElectroMotion ESL. I started with the Aerius I and listen in small room about 5-6 feet away. It is enough to flood the front with sound from extreme left to right. Note that if you haven't listen to ESL, you better listen to one. It doesn't have the pinpoint accuracy of the conventional speaker. Lower crossover than 2 conventional driver is the attractive part of hybrid ESL.

I advise not to buy used model as the panel has been updating.

 

[Nwickliff]

Welcome to ASR. No advice on the speakers other than to read and use the Review Index before you buy. Also try searching the forums for the models you’re thinking about.

I don't think Amir has done any reviews on any martin logan ES speakers. Been here since 2020 my good friend.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Looking for used on craigslist. I see them used on there all the time. Do you still believe they wi fall short with a well-integrated/time-aligned subwoofer(s).

What models have you seen on craigslist?

I personally prefer the non-hybrids myself. They all have trade-offs and compromises. I think on most models you can add a sub better than M-L used to do. OTOH, finding newer 2nd hand ones that are hybrids is easier. I think with response correction available now you could improve the result.

My advice would be get one at a fair price and realize it is a learning experience. If it doesn't pan out, sell it to recoup most of your money.

Also, though Magnepan is a panel speaker, it is a different kind of a sound vs ESLs. Don't get the idea they are highly similar.

 

[Nwickliff]

My first ML speakers were the Aerius back in 1993. I never added a sub, even though they only went down to about 40 Hz. So I really can’t offer guidance on adding a sub.

Stringed instruments sounded fantastic. I did play orchestral music and rock on them also, but at moderate volume. Nice speaker with some limitations.

Thanks. I feel like I see Aerius from time to time on Craigslist and they aren't priced extravagantly high.

 

[RayDunzl]

I have 28 year old reQuests, that I bought new.

I see them used for around $2000 occasionally.

12" sealed woofer, and 15" wide panel.

Never had a problem with mine.

With and without "room correction". the dip at 48Hz is the room, not the speaker.

220Hz dip is the dipole interaction with the wall behind the speaker, can be "tuned" with different distance from the wall.

I run them about 4 feet out.

 

[Nwickliff]

You could start with ElectroMotion ESL. I started with the Aerius I and listen in small room about 5-6 feet away. It is enough to flood the front with sound from extreme left to right. Note that if you haven't listen to ESL, you better listen to one. It doesn't have the pinpoint accuracy of the conventional speaker. Lower crossover than 2 conventional driver is the attractive part of hybrid ESL.

I advise not to buy used model as the panel has been updating.

I don't know that I'll keep them so wanted to buy used so as it cause less pain when/if ready to part with them and sell.

 

[Nwickliff]

I have 28 year old reQuests, that I bought new.

I see them used for around $2000 occasionally.

12" sealed woofer, and 15" wide panel.

Never had a problem with mine.

With and without "room correction". the dip at 48Hz is the room, not the speaker.

View attachment 263239

Very nice. I was hoping to spend 1K or less to just get a taste for what ES has to offer. I don't know that I will like the sound because I tend to love very focused center imaging as opposed to having the music wash over me. They second as home theater for me.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Very nice. I was hoping to spend 1K or less to just get a taste for what ES has to offer. I don't know that I will like the sound because I tend to love very focused center imaging as opposed to having the music wash over me. They second as home theater for me.

They aren't the best speakers for theater use unless it is just you and you can sit in the middle. Aerius are fine. But these are going to be 20-25 years old. Aerius-I are a few years newer. Just make sure they are working, that you hear them play. I'd probably run a short sweep tone to make sure there aren't too many buzzes or other issues. Not at a super high volume. Just kind of a normal listening level. Maybe a - 20 db sweep tone.

 

[kongwee]

I don't know that I'll keep them so wanted to buy used so as it cause less pain when/if ready to part with them and sell.

Depend on the condition of the panel. Older ML with black strips will have lesser efficiency overtime. Dust and humid does degrade it. It depend where you live. Some can really last with older panel. Like those with black strip can last 30 years and still counting. For me, I managed to upgrade my black strip panel to the transparent one. At that time, they did have this support for older models.

 

[RayDunzl]

I tend to love very focused center imaging as opposed to having the music wash over me.

They are very "direct" in their presentation.

JBL LSR 308 (red) vs ML (black), situated adjacently in my room, unsmoothed response.

The JBL are my econo-box daily drivers.

The JBL is wide dispersion and "sprays" the room.

Impulse Response - zoomed in to show reflected energy

Black (ML)

1ms - reflection from the top of the couch, mic stand
4ms - maybe off the seat of the couch
7ms - from the wall behind the speakers
27ms - from the speaker to the wall behind the listener to the wall behind the speaker back to the listener
Basically, the reflected energy comes from the front of the listener, not the sides, as I calculate it..

Red (JBL)
Don't know where it all comes from.
Can only assume walls ceiling floor whatever.

Both with "room correction".

 

[RayDunzl]

Depend on the condition of the panel.

I've kept a black "body pillow" case over my panels for all these years.

Cotton jersey, I think it is called, a little stretchy like a T-Shirt.

 

[Nwickliff]

They are very "direct" in their presentation.

JBL LSR 308 (red) vs ML (black), situated adjacently in my room, unsmoothed response.

The JBL are my econo-box daily drivers.

The JBL is wide dispersion and "sprays" the room.

View attachment 263240

Impulse Response - zoomed in to show reflected energy

View attachment 263241

Black (ML)

1ms - reflection from the top of the couch, mic stand
4ms - maybe off the seat of the couch
7ms - from the wall behind the speakers
27ms - from the speaker to the wall behind the listener to the wall behind the speaker back to the listener
Basically, the reflected energy comes from the front of the listener, not the sides, as I calculate it..

Red (JBL)
Don't know where it all comes from.
Can only assume walls ceiling floor whatever.

Both with "room correction".

Really want to run this test. I’ve got open baffles situated next to modded Klipsch RP600m. I think they have similar dispersion pattern to the jbl. I have 305’s I used to use at my computer. Now have Kali lp6.

 

[Dismayed]

ML supports speakers that are decades old. I replaced my reQuest panels about 10 years ago. Price was reasonable, but the panels are more expensive now.

 

[Dismayed]

You could start with ElectroMotion ESL. I started with the Aerius I and listen in small room about 5-6 feet away. It is enough to flood the front with sound from extreme left to right. Note that if you haven't listen to ESL, you better listen to one. It doesn't have the pinpoint accuracy of the conventional speaker. Lower crossover than 2 conventional driver is the attractive part of hybrid ESL.

I advise not to buy used model as the panel has been updating.

The panels are updated every generation, but even older panels sound nice. Improvements have been incremental, so I’d suggest that someone testing the waters should be fine with older panels.

 

[kongwee]

I tend to love very focused center imaging as opposed to having the music wash over me. They second as home theater for me.

ML center is very different. There are some speaker that can hold the death center when not shifting your head too much. Not that much for ML. The center of ML can be very engaging. The best music is show is the Four Session - Winter violin piece. There is one audiophile album that can highlight the solo part of the violin. Fast, aggressive, clean, effortless. Conventional driver will not able to achieve that in my subjective listening. HT is already a thumb up for me, it is less fatigue for me. Don't need to volume up too much. I am not a movie goer. Just like to play live music concert. The disadvantage is your can't pinpoint with your finger. It is alway somewhere there.