Martin Logan B10 Speaker Review

[sarumbear]

For this kind of money there is no reason this should exist when you can get a pair Neumann KH 120 A or Genelec 8030C, and made in Europe, too.

The finish is a factor for many.

 

[Toni Mas]

I know, but
a) its issues are different
b) what's more important - I'm talking about listening experience, not just "spinorama viewstening"
Amir did definitely like T5Vs, especially so after HF shelving correction.
MLs, as I can tell from the review - not so much.

I think that the predicted in room response tells a lot about the listenning experience, much more than simply the on axis response flatness.
This can also be apreciated in off axis and in room measurements that do not require the Klippel equipment, and can be performed by any hobbyst with a mic and free software.

 

[jbattman1016]

I want to see how the RSL CG5 compares to this.

 

[uwotm8]

For this kind of money there is no reason this should exist when you can get a pair Neumann KH 120 A or Genelec 8030C, and made in Europe, too

That made me re-read initial post and when I saw that price is for 1 pcs, not pair

Well well, Adam A7V joins the party - if someone wants AMT driver just because
But IMO cheap T7V may be enough to make ML look stupid. Or maybe not. That requires listening

 

[fineMen]

... there is some positive things but overall typical "Harman believer" and his "you experience is irrelevant" is as smart as those on opposite side who burn-in cable stands

It wasn't 'experience' but preference to be irrelevant, subjective preference. While the unquestioned preference of Harman's test panel at Harman's white coat and glasses test facility makes the scientific proof. I withstand the temptation to generalize this scheme.

That made me re-read initial post and when I saw that price is for 1 pcs, not pair

Well well, Adam A7V joins the party - if someone wants AMT driver just because
But IMO cheap T7V may be enough to make ML look stupid. Or maybe not. That requires listening

300 each: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/adam-t8v-studio-monitor-review.17118/

 

[Spocko]

300 each: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/adam-t8v-studio-monitor-review.17118/

THANKS for re-posting this, we are definitely living in good times when an active speaker this good is only $300!

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Makes me laugh every freaking time.
For more gags and keks I recommed to deeply read all their stuff with all that BS like "making one phones sound like another one" - equalizing Stax 909 iirc.
Ofc there is some positive things but overall typical "Harman believer" and his "you experience is irrelevant" is as smart as those on opposite side who burn-in cable stands

Do you have any facts or just silly emoji’s? (about how much bass contributes to listener preference - as this was the initial question in case you need to remember).

I guess not and rest my case.

 

[uwotm8]

any facts

Facts of what? Facts that overall failed (if not, then show me JBL and Infinity hi-fi speakers lineups still alive) and sold out audio group "discovered" - can you believe that? - that masses prefer non-linear response with bumped* bass, recessed mids and accentuated high-mids/lower treble?
*blah blah preferrence
Yes, that works. No, that's definitely not a Holy Grail of True Sound. Just a specific look on "how it should sound to get more likes".
EQing different cans to Harman Target doesn't make them sound even close to each other. Because - can you believe, again? - physically different cans perform differently, starting from how it fits different listener heads and ending at specific distortion/coloration and reaction to applied EQ with its boosts.

 

[fineMen]

Facts of what? Facts that overall failed (if not, then show me JBL and Infinity hi-fi speakers lineups still alive) and sold out audio group "discovered" - can you believe that? - that masses prefer non-linear response with bumped* bass, recessed mids and accentuated high-mids/lower treble?
*blah blah preferrence
Yes, that works. No, that's definitely not a Holy Grail of True Sound. Just a specific look on "how it should sound to get more likes".
EQing different cans to Harman Target doesn't make them sound even close to each other. Because - can you believe, again? - physically different cans perform differently, starting from how it fits different listener heads and ending at specific distortion/coloration and reaction to applied EQ with its boosts.

Two things.
First, I support the critical view on Harman's preference, while still embracing the standard as such, as a standard; we desperatly needed it.
Second, the headphone thing is more complicated, as it should better refer to people's individual ear canal length and so different resonances; those typically assumed to be @4kHz.

 

[Toni Mas]

Maybe It would be worth considering that Harman's and any other target response does not define transparency but simply a given (prefered) tonal balance. With loudspeakers transparency is almost imposible to achieve, and frequency response flatness does not even mean truely uncolored sound, as It has been demonstrated that resonances well below the reference level are still audible.

 

[Bach]

Helas, the B10 seems to me a example of commercialization of a brand name with a very good reputation as with expensive speakers.
Of course it is always good to have a review with the audio science approach of the speaker, so everyone can compare that results with other speakers.
The shortcomings are good to be seen in the graphs: a to high bass reflex port frequecy of 70 Hz, a port ( or is it better called a hole?) that emates way to much mid freq. at 1 and 2 KHz and a crossover that has tried to mask that latter.
Martin Logan as a brand should think it over: Is this the way to make good money at the long run?

 

[Tovarich007]

The finish is a factor for many.

I agree.
As for me, I would prefer a Neumann or a Genelec, but for domestic use and most of people, style, fit and finish matter, and we have to respect this.
This Martin Logan isn't bad at all, just imperfect, so why deny its rght to exist simply cause it's imperfect ? Our forum colleague Unplugged claims quite a totaliterian point of view by writing such a thing.

By the way, you can find both style, fit and finish and high acoustic quality if, for instance, you look to Kef or Arendal speakers. They are on the same level as good pro monitors, though they're not active. But add good DAC, amp and a room corrrection system, and you get it all !

 

[fineMen]

This Martin Logan isn't bad at all, just imperfect, so why deny its rght to exist simply cause it's imperfect ? Our forum colleague Unplugged claims quite a totaliterian point of view by writing such a thing.

I like your post because it brings up a lot of questions.
Totalitarian, it is not so that the possibility to chose from a bunch of offers defines freedom. It is just that, a choice, no less, no more.

Once when we still had internal cumbustion engines from how many types of spark plugs could you choose? Maybe three manufacturers, your workshop keeps a basic and a premium makes two, but it was one type alone. Is the definition of standard wrench sizes (o/k, its imperial and metric) totalitarian? Now someone chimes in to offer 'freedom' wrenches with arbitrary size. And you say, "Hey, good looking!"

Clearly way back in time many speakers were furniture for their size alone . Today it's a as-tiny-as-can-get device sitting somewhere else. To begin with at any time a speaker is a technological tool to do things. That makes its existence. If it doesn't do well, you might pull its existence into question.

I prefer obey the metric system

 

[Tovarich007]

When I wrote "totaliterian", I just replied to Unplugged who claimed that a speaker like the Martin Logan B10 shoudn't exist considering the large number of technically better offers, of course. The use of the words "should (not) exist" troubled me. As soon as you deny the right of creation, be it of a simple product like a speaker, as imperfect as it can be, well that's the beginning of a sort of "totaliterian way of thinking". Of course, it has to be taken in a second degree, because we speak about products, not persons.

Simply put, of course we have the right to criticize products as harsh as we want for their flaws (and also, as for most high end products, for their extravagantly bad value for money), and I'm not the last one to do so, but not their existence in itself.

 

[fineMen]

Simply put, ...

I'll try again. I dent someones car. The owner yells: "That dent must not exist!", I reply: "You totalitarian!" As I already hear your caveat, totalirism is a matter of ownership? We better spear the term for more serious issues, won't we?

Anyway, I would like the industry to settle to the spinorama standard offering more apt models. In this case it seemed to be more a sort of neglect that makes the (relative) fail, than a decided compromise. So, as to offer a compromise can we say that neglect shouldn't exist?

 

[Dimitrov]

How would this speaker compare to something like Paradigm Studio 20 v5? I owned those speakers for the past 7 years, I don't think they are considered bad speakers, but as far as an upgrade for improved audio fidelity, I'm looking at upgrading to a new bookshelf speaker.

 

[MarkS]

How would this speaker compare to something like Paradigm Studio 20 v5? I owned those speakers for the past 7 years, I don't think they are considered bad speakers, but as far as an upgrade for improved audio fidelity, I'm looking at upgrading to a new bookshelf speaker.

That speaker measures pretty well:

Paradigm Reference Studio 20 v5 loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements

www.stereophile.com

(Note that the bass hump is an artifact of Stereophile's measuring methodology.)

It's possible to get better measuring speakers, but whether they would sound better to your ears in your room is impossible to say.

Also, if you don't already have some form of room correction, this is more likely to result in better sound than new speakers.

 

[Dimitrov]

That speaker measures pretty well:

Paradigm Reference Studio 20 v5 loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements

www.stereophile.com

(Note that the bass hump is an artifact of Stereophile's measuring methodology.)

It's possible to get better measuring speakers, but whether they would sound better to your ears in your room is impossible to say.

Also, if you don't already have some form of room correction, this is more likely to result in better sound than new speakers.

Thank you for your thoughts. In your opinion what would you consider as an upgrade to these speakers in terms of sound quality? I already own a subwoofer so low frequencies are covered.

 

[MarkS]

Well the usual suspects are listed here:

Passive Speaker Recommendations for USA (by @sweetchaos)

I'm constantly asked which speakers to purchase...so, here you go! :D This guide is for PASSIVE speakers. For ACTIVE speakers go here. Click on the "Spoiler" buttons below to expand each section. Readme: Legend: Passive Bookshelf Speakers: Passive Tower/Floorstanding Speakers: RAN OUT...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I suggest you start a new thread, and provide details on your system, room, budget, type of music, etc.

 

[nstzya]

My current system is located on my patio with only one wall and 3 open sides and a 12' high vaulted ceiling. It consists of a Benchmark DAC2 with the XL out into a Buckeye/Hypex NC252 that drives a pair of B&W AM1 speakers full range. The RCA out of the Benchmark feeds an old 10" Velodyne sub, that has a remote to control the volume. The cross over is set at 60Hz.

Sound is incredibly clean with plenty of base.

And no room modes/nodes!