Elac Uni-Fi 2.0 Review (bookshelf speaker)

[Beershaun]

Noted but I thought this unit Amir measured was faulty so a re-test of different unit could clarify this

Go ahead and buy one and send it to him if you want another one tested. That's the process. He doesn't get them for free from manufacturers. Please feel free to put your funds behind your demands.

Also andrew jones has already responded in this thread with his findings. So it's now up to you to interpret the results between the two.

Honestly there are plenty of speakers that amir has measured that match the manufacturer specs as well as plenty of speakers in this price range and performance that don't exhibit this issue including the Elac Debut Reference 6.2. So there are plenty of other choices rather than agonize over this particular speaker further.

 

[Music1969]

Go ahead and buy one and send it to him if you want another one tested. That's the process.

I'm aware of the process and I'm on the other side of the world.

I was asking a question not demanding a retest.

Please don't be so dramatic. It's very unnecessary.

 

[More Dynamics Please]

Note that no definitive conclusion has yet been reached on the issue observed in the test unit. We are all still awaiting a further update from Andrew Jones who concluded his last post on March 1 with the following:

I will put the speaker back together, and get it, or a fresh sample, returned to you to continue your evaluation. I will also track down the rattle that I did hear when the speaker was grossly overdriven and report back.

To which @amirm responded:

Thanks Andrew for posting your response here and investigation. Much appreciated. As we communicated, I am waiting to receive other samples to re-test here. Once there, we will have closed the loop on what may or may not have gone on here. It is a challenge with subjective testing to replicate things unlike disagreements on measurements.

 

[hardisj]

@amirm there has been concern elsewhere that your measurement setup isn't properly grounded, like your AP analyzer and the Klippel. An ungrounded setup would yield poor measurement results. Can you confirm please?

I'd like to see a link to this discussion. It sounds to me people are making excuses for performance based on their misunderstanding of how the Klippel system actually works.

 

[amirm]

I don't think I have received any replacement units to test.

 

[HARMAN]

i don't understand in youtube 3 reviews claim this is the best speaker in the price range, and even above how can it be?

 

[richard12511]

i don't understand in youtube 3 reviews claim this is the best speaker in the price range, and even above how can it be?

The measurements here do in fact show a great speaker. Objectively, they look just as good as the DBR-62. Plus you get the coaxial design, which will likely make them image a bit better than the DBR. Unfortunately, this speaker made a really bad sound at high volumes that the DBR did not, and that's where the big difference in score(0/5 vs 5/5) came from.

How loud do you listen? This may still be an excellent speaker if you don't listen at those levels that Amir tested at.

 

[HARMAN]

Thanks for your help
I understand update version is on the way Elac Uni-Fi 2.0 reference...

 

[Descartes]

Mark Levinson No 53:

Now we are talking sweet!!

 

[MrPeabody]

Now we are talking sweet!!

My plan is to win the lottery at some point so that I can afford to buy a Mark Levinson amplifier.

 

[MrPeabody]

The measurements here do in fact show a great speaker. Objectively, they look just as good as the DBR-62. Plus you get the coaxial design, which will likely make them image a bit better than the DBR. Unfortunately, this speaker made a really bad sound at high volumes that the DBR did not, and that's where the big difference in score(0/5 vs 5/5) came from.

How loud do you listen? This may still be an excellent speaker if you don't listen at those levels that Amir tested at.

So far as I can tell it still has not been determined conclusively whether what happened was partly a result of the music signal containing a strong DC component. The best evidence, that the DC content in the music signal wasn't the cause per se of what Amir heard, is that the distortion measurements show a distortion peak at that frequency, and this measurement was not taken with the music. But, notwithstanding the peak in the distortion measurements, it could still be the case that the DC content in the music was the defining cause for the noise that Amir heard. And this matters because it isn't reasonable or realistic to test speakers with music superimposed over a DC bias. To me it seems manifest that in order to insure a valid listening test (or any kind of test), an infrasonic filter needs to be applied in the computer program that is producing the signal, or otherwise placed in front of the DC-coupled amplifier, when the source is a digital file that can contain strong DC content. There was a small amount of meaningful discussion of this back when everyone was excited over Amir's evaluation of this speaker, but then everyone (except me) seems to have forgotten about this aspect of the unsightly spectacle. I think that something must have happened that I must have missed, because I don't understand why no one else is paying any attention to this.

 

[richard12511]

So far as I can tell it still has not been determined conclusively whether what happened was partly a result of the music signal containing a strong DC component. The best evidence, that the DC content in the music signal wasn't the cause per se of what Amir heard, is that the distortion measurements show a distortion peak at that frequency, and this measurement was not taken with the music. But, notwithstanding the peak in the distortion measurements, it could still be the case that the DC content in the music was the defining cause for the noise that Amir heard. And this matters because it isn't reasonable or realistic to test speakers with music superimposed over a DC bias. To me it seems manifest that in order to insure a valid listening test (or any kind of test), an infrasonic filter needs to be applied in the computer program that is producing the signal, or otherwise placed in front of the DC-coupled amplifier, when the source is a digital file that can contain strong DC content. There was a small amount of meaningful discussion of this back when everyone was excited over Amir's evaluation of this speaker, but then everyone (except me) seems to have forgotten about this aspect of the unsightly spectacle. I think that something must have happened that I must have missed, because I don't understand why no one else is paying any attention to this.

I don't own these speakers, but maybe @joentell can try this. I know he was able to reproduce the same problem that Amir experienced with that song. He could apply that infrasonic filter and see if he's still able to reproduce the issue.

 

[MrPeabody]

I don't own these speakers, but maybe @joentell can try this. I know he was able to reproduce the same problem that Amir experienced with that song. He could apply that infrasonic filter and see if he's still able to reproduce the issue.

This is an excellent suggestion. One potential difficulty is with being certain that the noise that @joentell heard later, that he didn't hear during the first go-around, is the very same thing that Amir heard. But this potential difficulty is moot if he hears the noise at the exact same point in the music track where Amir heard it. If he confirms that this noise is audible when DC is allowed to reach the speakers but not when DC is blocked from reaching the speakers, then we will have made a breakthrough in understanding what is really going on here. He should also be able to confirm that at the point where the noise is evident, the speaker cone is visually observed to have been driven to one extreme of its travel and held there, briefly. He could also experiment to see whether reversing the polarity of the speaker has any affect on it. What say you, @joentell?

 

[supreme]

i don't understand in youtube 3 reviews claim this is the best speaker in the price range, and even above how can it be?

Its simple - i bought whole range of unifi 2.0 speakers the center and towers and i have no issues with any of them. I use Hegel H190 amp and its rated 150w plenty for these bookshelfs. I dont listen on crazy high volume but still sometimes put -10db below ref. If i would need to go higher than that, then people should understand where they plan to use these speakers and how. They are 600 bucks god sake. For that money they perform really well. I'm glad AJ did his testing and clarified whats normal and whats not.
If purpose for testing speakers is finding their ultimate limits for max power then so be it but i never look testing review seriously if its not based on really life like usage scenarios and how it measures there. If you want to blast your 600 dollar speakers with all the power you have on very high power amp and high vol then its user problem
Every reviewer can do any experiments they like question is are they useful for actual users...

 

[joentell]

This is an excellent suggestion. One potential difficulty is with being certain that the noise that @joentell heard later, that he didn't hear during the first go-around, is the very same thing that Amir heard. But this potential difficulty is moot if he hears the noise at the exact same point in the music track where Amir heard it. If he confirms that this noise is audible when DC is allowed to reach the speakers but not when DC is blocked from reaching the speakers, then we will have made a breakthrough in understanding what is really going on here. He should also be able to confirm that at the point where the noise is evident, the speaker cone is visually observed to have been driven to one extreme of its travel and held there, briefly. He could also experiment to see whether reversing the polarity of the speaker has any affect on it. What say you, @joentell?

I was able to reproduce the effect using a test tone generator at levels that I would consider normal listening volumes. It was much easier to do it that way since I could sustain the frequency where it happens and then turn the volume up/down to see when I could hear the sound. I didn't detect it initially because the tone could be masked by higher frequencies in normal music. I don't typically sit there playing test sweeps while listening to it. ;-) The other thing that's tricky about this one is that it happens at a slightly higher volume than I would use for sweep tests when doing frequency response measurements, so it would've evaded my normal testing procedure. I'm talking maybe +6dB louder and I would've seen it on the graph. It's an odd one for sure.

Like I said in my previous response, I think the high-pitched sound that is made was what I was experiencing when I said in my video that something sounded harsh in the higher frequencies.

I've talked to the guys at ELAC, and they said they're finding out if it has something to do with over-tightened screws on that midrange driver. I don't want to speak on their behalf, but I think they will resolve the issue. I haven't had time to test to see how that affects things.

 

[Abe_W]

Any thoughts on the best toe-in angle for these UB52 bookshelf speakers? Directly at listening position? Just outside? None?

Also, I tried to recreate the anomaly noted in the review with the speakers right out of the box, at many different volumes, with the track on Amazon HD, and was unable to reproduce it.

Never point concentric drivers directly at the listening position. 10 to 15 degrees off should be good.

 

[Abe_W]

Don't hold your breath. Nobody has been able to recreate the sound except Amir. Its already pretty clear he got a single, faulty unit.

I would love to massively overdrive a Revel M16 (after i kick it a few times, play some soccer with it) and then post some measurements on my website audiodiddlywiggly.com. After i post some measurements, i wanna dance all night with a headless/tail less stoopidass looking panther. Audiodiddlywiggly.com will focus on measurements and dancing like there's no tomorrow.

 

[More Dynamics Please]

^ Amusing to see the "Nobody has been able to recreate the sound except Amir" comment cited just two posts after @joentell stated "I was able to reproduce the effect using a test tone generator at levels that I would consider normal listening volumes."

 

[Denon545]

I have the tower version of this speaker (uni-fi 2.0 UF52) and I am able to recreate the same issue with the Eva Cassidy track. These are being boxed up and returned to Crutchfield. I am not over powering them/ the amp is a 200 watt Monolith. I didn’t care for how dull the speakers sounded to begin with. My measurements confirm the same shelved treble.

 

[aarons915]

I have no idea if these were "overdriven" or not but it does bring up a good point about some feedback for future reviews. When doing the listening session it would be nice to know the SPL levels and at what distance for some perspective. I personally think 85 db at about 2-3 meters is plenty loud for most of us.