Hypex Ncore NC122MP VS NC252MP

[Emiyanez]

Hi everyone,

I have an Audiophonics stereo Hypex Ncore NC122MP amp feeding a pair of ELAC Uni-Fi UF52. I am getting itchy about upgrading to a more powerful Hypex-based amplifier and I wonder whether there would be an obvious advantage on having the extra punch (apart from the possibility to upgrade to harder to driver speakers).

The speakers have a sensitivity of 85 dB at 2.83 v/1m and a nominal impedance of 6 Ohms. According to this article, the minimal impedance is 5.2 Ohms between 200-600 Hz.

In normal conditions, I have recorded a maximum of 85 dB from my listening position (3 meters from the speakers) but, unfortunately, I do not have a way of measuring the power generated by the amplifier to understand were I sit in the curve. I have seen different online calculators but I have problems understanding the need of headspace or power reserve and how this influences the quality of the reproduction.

Would you recommend upgrading to a more powerful amp (e.g. Hypex Ncore NC252MP)? I do not want to spend the money if there's no reason for it.

Thanks a lot on advance for you help.

Cheers,
Emilio.

 

[staticV3]

Unless you hear obvious clipping from the Amp, indicating that you have reached its limits, upgrading to a more powerful amp will not change the sound quality in any way.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

I would guess your speakers and amplifier are at their limits right about the SPL you're listening. -Do you experience that the sound looses some bass when turning it up in volume?

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Hi everyone,

I have an Audiophonics stereo Hypex Ncore NC122MP amp feeding a pair of ELAC Uni-Fi UF52. I am getting itchy about upgrading to a more powerful Hypex-based amplifier and I wonder whether there would be an obvious advantage on having the extra punch (apart from the possibility to upgrade to harder to driver speakers).

The speakers have a sensitivity of 85 dB at 2.83 v/1m and a nominal impedance of 6 Ohms. According to this article, the minimal impedance is 5.2 Ohms between 200-600 Hz.

In normal conditions, I have recorded a maximum of 85 dB from my listening position (3 meters from the speakers) but, unfortunately, I do not have a way of measuring the power generated by the amplifier to understand were I sit in the curve. I have seen different online calculators but I have problems understanding the need of headspace or power reserve and how this influences the quality of the reproduction.

Would you recommend upgrading to a more powerful amp (e.g. Hypex Ncore NC252MP)? I do not want to spend the money if there's no reason for it.

Thanks a lot on advance for you help.

Cheers,
Emilio.

If you have a Multimeter you can measure the voltage at your speakers input and than estimate the power by P = Voltage Squared divided by Speaker Impedance (ca 6ohm). Use for example pink noise as a test signal.

And if you have two Multimeters you can even measure the current going an and don’t have to estimate the impedance. P = V x I then.

 

[staticV3]

In normal conditions, I have recorded a maximum of 85 dB from my listening position (3 meters from the speakers) but, unfortunately, I do not have a way of measuring the power generated by the amplifier to understand were I sit in the curve.

We can estimate the output power based on your data:


Just 5W are required to reach 85dB SPL Peak at your MLP, even less if your speakers are placed in the corners of your room.

So yeah no clue how that estimate came to be:

I would guess your speakers and amplifier are at their limits right about the SPL you're listening.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

We can estimate the output power based on your data:
View attachment 349724

Just 5W are required to reach 85dB SPL Peak at your MLP, even less if your speakers are placed in the corners of your room.

So yeah no clue how that estimate came to be:

Huh? Who said peak? Have I missed something. It was 85 dBA average.
Edit: should really be measuring dbc or dbz to assess power needs.

 

[staticV3]

Huh? Who said peak? Have I missed something. It was 85 dBA average.

See here:

I have recorded a maximum of 85 dB from my listening position

 

[Deleted member 48726]

See here:

Yeah. Missed that. Probably still dbA max though. Need more info.

 

[Emiyanez]

Thanks a lot!

I have never heard any obvious clipping so I guess I could skip the upgrade and save some money.

Cheers,
Emilio.

 

[Sokel]

Yeah. Missed that. Probably still dbA max though. Need more info.

We also need to know with what this was recorded with.
If it's a random phone app is close to useless,Decibel X on the other hand is nice and one can toggle between max and peak to get a rough view.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

We also need to know with what this was recorded with.
If it's a random phone app is close to useless,Decibel X on the other hand is nice and one can toggle between max and peak to get a rough view.

View attachment 349728

Or NIOSH app. Measures dBC peak also.
Not enough information from OP to actually assess power needs.

DMM on speaker terminals will work. But only if measured with a DMM that is capable of logging fast peak values and not only for a fixed frequency.

 

[Sokel]

Or NIOSH app. Measures dBC peak also.
Not enough information from OP to actually assess power needs.

DMM on speaker terminals will work. But only if measured with a DMM that is capable of logging fast peak values and not only for a fixed frequency.

2x75 watt at 8 Ohm.2x125 watt at 4 Ohm,85db (true? ) sens. speakers at 3 meters and some EQ that is always needed for lows...
If the room is big enough and fully furnitured and depending the amount of correction (if filling dips which in my opinion shouldn't ),high dynamic content as classical,et, I would go for more,not as little as NC250MP but at NC500MP maybe for peace of mind.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

2x75 watt at 8 Ohm.2x125 watt at 4 Ohm,85db (true? ) sens. speakers at 3 meters and some EQ that is always needed for lows...
If the room is big enough and fully furnitured and depending the amount of correction (if filling dips which in my opinion shouldn't ),high dynamic content as classical,et, I would go for more,not as little as NC250MP but at NC500MP maybe for peace of mind.

Yeah. Around 200 W / ch. (4 ohm) with 15 dB headroom. (Class D exhibits no particular headroom so RMS values should be considered)

Not considering:
-Speaker impedance or phase angle variables in low frequencies
-EQ
-Speaker SPL limitation

 

[Emiyanez]

I am a scientist myself (molecular biologist) and I always get surprised by the rigorous scientific approach to audio in this forum.

As I cannot provide more accurate measurements that could help with a data-based answer, I see two main schools of thought when addressing the question "subjectively":
1) You're fine if you can't hear clipping.
2) Get as much power as you can.

At the end of the day, if I have to invest in a full set of tools to be able to properly measure amp power delivery, I would rather go for a more powerful amp .

Assuming that I am happy with the volume level that I get from my system and that I cannot hear any sign of clipping or distortion at my normal listening level, is there any benefit in getting more power?

Thanks a lot! I really appreciate your help and learn a lot from your answers.

 

[staticV3]

Assuming that I am happy with the volume level that I get from my system and that I cannot hear any sign of clipping or distortion at my normal listening level, is there any benefit in getting more power?

There is not.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

I am a scientist myself (molecular biologist) and I always get surprised by the rigorous scientific approach to audio in this forum.

As I cannot provide more accurate measurements that could help with a data-based answer, I see two main schools of thought when addressing the question "subjectively":
1) You're fine if you can't hear clipping.
2) Get as much power as you can.

At the end of the day, if I have to invest in a full set of tools to be able to properly measure amp power delivery, I would rather go for a more powerful amp .

Assuming that I am happy with the volume level that I get from my system and that I cannot hear any sign of clipping or distortion at my normal listening level, is there any benefit in getting more power?

Thanks a lot! I really appreciate your help and learn a lot from your answers.

There is likely no benefit, no. But if you really are listening at 85 dBA from a distance of 3 m. you could be in the territory of speaker compression on peaks with dynamic music. I noted small bass drivers and relatively low efficiency from glancing the spec. sheet of your speakers.
Compression can do strange things to the frequency response. But if you haven't noticed a change in the overall sound signature with high volume, that as well is of no concern.

 

[Xcaliber]

Hi everyone,

I have an Audiophonics stereo Hypex Ncore NC122MP amp feeding a pair of ELAC Uni-Fi UF52. I am getting itchy about upgrading to a more powerful Hypex-based amplifier and I wonder whether there would be an obvious advantage on having the extra punch (apart from the possibility to upgrade to harder to driver speakers).

The speakers have a sensitivity of 85 dB at 2.83 v/1m and a nominal impedance of 6 Ohms. According to this article, the minimal impedance is 5.2 Ohms between 200-600 Hz.

In normal conditions, I have recorded a maximum of 85 dB from my listening position (3 meters from the speakers) but, unfortunately, I do not have a way of measuring the power generated by the amplifier to understand were I sit in the curve. I have seen different online calculators but I have problems understanding the need of headspace or power reserve and how this influences the quality of the reproduction.

Would you recommend upgrading to a more powerful amp (e.g. Hypex Ncore NC252MP)? I do not want to spend the money if there's no reason for it.

Thanks a lot on advance for you help.

Cheers,
Emilio.

When you've got the itch to upgrade.... you've got to scratch it. lol I'd say go straight for the big boy and jump on something like the NCx500, you can always set the lowest gain on the amp to output less power for what you need now, but with plenty of power on reserved, that would also give you an opportunity down the road to develop another new itch and urge to upgrade your speakers afterward, so you could utilize the untapped power from the bigger amp. By then, you can move your NC122MP to power the surrounds, or use it in your office or bedroom.

Yolo is the way....

 

[sunjam]

I am always puzzled by the relationship between amp power and speaker spec. Just wondering is there any scientific formla to calculate the required power based on the speaker spec?

Btw, let says for a speaker needs X watt based on calcuation (if there is a such formula), would there be any benefits for giving the speaker a more powerful amp (assume all the rest, e.g, THD, etc are the same for the both amp excep the power rating)?

 

[samsa]

I'm not even sure there's a universal answer to that. It seems that class-AB amplifiers generally have more headroom for transient peaks (above their rated continuous power output) than class-D. So, all other things being equal, you might want a class-D amplifier with a higher continuous power rating than a corresponding class-AB amplifier.

 

[Doodski]

I am always puzzled by the relationship between amp power and speaker spec. Just wondering is there any scientific formla to calculate the required power based on the speaker spec?

Btw, let says for a speaker needs X watt based on calcuation (if there is a such formula), would there be any benefits for giving the speaker a more powerful amp (assume all the rest, e.g, THD, etc are the same for the both amp excep the power rating)?

Here are calculators for this sort of stuff:

Amplifier, Speaker & SPL Calculator - Geoff the Grey Geek

geoffthegreygeek.com

Peak SPL Calculator